No insurance for decommissioned oil tank?

pals23 said:

FilmCarp said:

Don't let yourself get panicked.  I pulled a 1000 gallon tank in Newark.  No contamination, no problems.

How long was it sitting in the ground before you took it out???

The house was built in 1914.  I think the tank was original.  Yours is already sand filled and most likely fine, so please ignore the panic inducing stories that a few people are telling.  Pull it and sleep well.

Tank was original.1920's ?

Houses in the NE usually converted to oil in the 1930's. Before that, they were heated with coal. Not that relevant, but interesting history.

Call Mike Waters! (Or someone.) There's a very good chance it will be a clean pull and you can put this behind you.

Hi Everyone,

Someone called? Still in Maine although I visit SOMA quite often. Yes, I am the person who had a frighteningly large spill. It cost $569K to remediate in 2012. Fortunately, we had two types of insurance, ProGuard tank insurance, and homeowners that was in force at the time. The company providing the homeowners insurance went after the homeowner (or her insurance company) who sold the house to us. Our insurance company estimated our tank had been leaking for 35 years. We owned our home for over 14 years at the time the tank was pulled and found to be leaking. It was under our new driveway, most of the spill was on a neighbor's lawn, plus it hit the water table. The dig was 18 feet down, and a giant terrace made of concrete needed to be constructed to stabilize both our house and our neighbor's during the remediation. We did not have a choice about pulling it or not, because there was evidence (water in the tank) it might be leaking. 

Good luck everyone. 

Why is everyone so anxious to terrify this poor guy? He has a sand filled tank to pull.  Most tanks are clean pulls.  He admits he is nervous about all of it.  And yet people are so caught up in themselves that they have to relate every worst case scenario that they have ever been through or heard of.

Let the guy pull his tank and sleep well at night.

FilmCarp said:

Why is everyone so anxious to terrify this poor guy? He has a sand filled tank to pull.  Most tanks are clean pulls.  He admits he is nervous about all of it.  And yet people are so caught up in themselves that they have to relate every worst case scenario that they have ever been through or heard of.

Let the guy pull his tank and sleep well at night.

My case was referenced earlier, so I decided to respond. Thought the thread included others in addition to the OP. The OP has been reassured that the oil tank on in their yard is unlikely to be an insurmountable problem. 

But the Op is not reassured.

The three incidents recalled in this thread are well known; but, they are only three incidents out of many that did not get such wide attention because there was little if anything to talk about in those remaining cases.

OP will do, or not do, whatever OP in the back of his/her mind has already decided to do prior to starting this thread. The tank is likely to be pulled at some time with little or no change in the outcome of the pull whether the tank is removed now or at some time in the distant future.  

These oil tank-related threads made me nervous so we decided to pull our 1000 UST in Dec. 2014. It had been closed in place and foam-filled by a previous owner in 1995 and was located close to a stone wall and the house. If you have a tight space, make sure the contractors you are considering see the site. I started with Mike Waters for an estimate and he warned me that he might damage the wall, so we went with someone who assured me they would not cause damage and while challenged, they did a fine job. The tank was very thick, heavy and intact so no leakage. I am so glad we pulled it - one less thing to worry about when we sell some day. I think we paid about $2200, plus we had to pay our landscaper to reset the patio pavers the next spring.

hauscat said:

These oil tank-related threads made me nervous so we decided to pull our 1000 UST in Dec. 2014. It had been closed in place and foam-filled by a previous owner in 1995 and was located close to a stone wall and the house. If you have a tight space, make sure the contractors you are considering see the site. I started with Mike Waters for an estimate and he warned me that he might damage the wall, so we went with someone who assured me they would not cause damage and while challenged, they did a fine job. The tank was very thick, heavy and intact so no leakage. I am so glad we pulled it - one less thing to worry about when we sell some day. I think we paid about $2200, plus we had to pay our landscaper to reset the patio pavers the next spring.

Who did you finally get to do the job?? And How long ago was it?

I know I don't have an oil tank on my property, but my neighbors do and I think it is very close to the property line. Would a potential buyer be able to request that I have my soil tested, just in case my neighbor's tank has a leak and has contaminated my soil?

They can ask anything they want, and you can say no if you want to.

Fan5 said:

I know I don't have an oil tank on my property, but my neighbors do and I think it is very close to the property line. Would a potential buyer be able to request that I have my soil tested, just in case my neighbor's tank has a leak and has contaminated my soil?

That's an interesting question. If I were looking to buy your house, I would consider doing some testing at my own expense. Even though I don't see how I could be held responsible for remediation, I'd like to know if there's a possible excavation in my future. However, I believe testing in the vicinity of a tank isn't very accurate. Leaking oil pools under the tank, where it can't be reached when they take the samples, and often travels straight down from there.

Have you talked to your neighbor? Is the tank still in use?

pals23 said:

hauscat said:

These oil tank-related threads made me nervous so we decided to pull our 1000 UST in Dec. 2014. It had been closed in place and foam-filled by a previous owner in 1995 and was located close to a stone wall and the house. If you have a tight space, make sure the contractors you are considering see the site. I started with Mike Waters for an estimate and he warned me that he might damage the wall, so we went with someone who assured me they would not cause damage and while challenged, they did a fine job. The tank was very thick, heavy and intact so no leakage. I am so glad we pulled it - one less thing to worry about when we sell some day. I think we paid about $2200, plus we had to pay our landscaper to reset the patio pavers the next spring.

Who did you finally get to do the job?? And How long ago was it?

FYI -- I had my 500-gallon tank pulled in 2012 by Environmental Maintenance out of PA. It was a ProGuard pull, so I had to use one of their approved vendors. The cost was $1,200 + 167 for the permit + $500 to ProGuard for the voluntary removal fee. They did a fine job, no damage (there wasn't much in the vicinity but a crumbling asphalt driveway) and also hauled away a bunch of scrap metal that had been left on the property.

Here's the proposal:

-----------------

The following proposal has been prepared for the removal and disposal of one (1) 500-gallon

underground storage tank (UST) at the subject location. Included is assistance to obtain all necessary

permits, the collection and analysis of confirmatory soil samples, backfilling the excavation, and the

preparation of a letter documenting the closure and results of the soil sampling and analysis. Pricing is as

follows:

UST Closure: $1,200 Lump Sum ($1,400 if it is a 1,000 gallon UST)

Permits: At Cost Plus $100

Fluid Disposal: $0.85/gallon

These costs exclude any needed remediation. Costs assume free and clear access to tank, per the

Proguard contract. If surface or subsurface conditions (such as asphalt replacement, needing to

remove numerous plantings, needing to remove possible buried concrete pad or front steps, walkway,

etc.) cause delay in the removal, we will negotiate payment of additional costs at that time. Restoration

is limited to backfilling and re-grading the area. No Asphalt replacement is included. We will re-plant

bushes etc. that need to be removed to access the tank, but there is no guarantee that the plants will

survive. We will endeavor to complete the project with as little disruption to your property as practical.

However, repair of any incidental property damage, such as broken siding, small cracks to sidewalks

and driveway, etc., is NOT the responsibility of Environmental Maintenance.

We will coordinate with Proguard on scheduling the tank removal. You are responsible for paying

your deductible to Proguard prior to scheduling the removal, if applicable. In the event that

Proguard covers the cost of the closure, you will still be responsible for the cost of the permit (plus

$50 as stated above) and the fluid disposal, and any additional time costs.

If you have any questions or require any additional information, please feel free to contact me at (215)

233-5141. Environmental Maintenance appreciates the opportunity to be of assistance to you on this

project. This proposal can be affected by signing the attached Contracting Services Authorization that

includes the attached Standard Terms and Conditions of contract.

Sincerely,

ENVIRONMENTAL MAINTENANCE COMPANY, INC.

I have never questioned my neighbors about their oil tank, but I think they have one. Actually, I'm too scared to know anything about possible leakages on to my property. In any case, they are not selling their house, so they wouldn't know anything about contamination. I was just wondering, if houses are very close together, how do you know whether the soil contamination is from your oil tank or from your neighbor's. I know I am overthinking this, but suppose my soil is contaminated, and since I never had an oil tank, it must be from my neighbor's tank, either from the left or the right of me. I can't demand that my neighbors have their tanks pulled and tested and it's way too expensive for them to offer. What on earth would the solution be and who would pay for it?

kthnry said:

Fan5 said:

I know I don't have an oil tank on my property, but my neighbors do and I think it is very close to the property line. Would a potential buyer be able to request that I have my soil tested, just in case my neighbor's tank has a leak and has contaminated my soil?

That's an interesting question. If I were looking to buy your house, I would consider doing some testing at my own expense. Even though I don't see how I could be held responsible for remediation, I'd like to know if there's a possible excavation in my future. However, I believe testing in the vicinity of a tank isn't very accurate. Leaking oil pools under the tank, where it can't be reached when they take the samples, and often travels straight down from there.

Have you talked to your neighbor? Is the tank still in use?

Is it true that testing around the tank is inaccurate?? I was thinking about having a undisclosed  test done before I make any decision as what to do next.  

pals23 said:

kthnry said:

Fan5 said:

I know I don't have an oil tank on my property, but my neighbors do and I think it is very close to the property line. Would a potential buyer be able to request that I have my soil tested, just in case my neighbor's tank has a leak and has contaminated my soil?

That's an interesting question. If I were looking to buy your house, I would consider doing some testing at my own expense. Even though I don't see how I could be held responsible for remediation, I'd like to know if there's a possible excavation in my future. However, I believe testing in the vicinity of a tank isn't very accurate. Leaking oil pools under the tank, where it can't be reached when they take the samples, and often travels straight down from there.

Have you talked to your neighbor? Is the tank still in use?

Is it true that testing around the tank is inaccurate?? I was thinking about having a undisclosed  test done before I make any decision as what to do next.  

That's what the tank pull company told me. If the hole is in the bottom of the tank and the oil is leaking straight down, taking samples around the sides of the tank will miss the contamination.

Which way does the water runoff flow on your properties?

Fan5 said:

I have never questioned my neighbors about their oil tank, but I think they have one. Actually, I'm too scared to know anything about possible leakages on to my property. In any case, they are not selling their house, so they wouldn't know anything about contamination. I was just wondering, if houses are very close together, how do you know whether the soil contamination is from your oil tank or from your neighbor's. I know I am overthinking this, but suppose my soil is contaminated, and since I never had an oil tank, it must be from my neighbor's tank, either from the left or the right of me. I can't demand that my neighbors have their tanks pulled and tested and it's way too expensive for them to offer. What on earth would the solution be and who would pay for it?

kthnry said:

That's what the tank pull company told me. If the hole is in the bottom of the tank and the oil is leaking straight down, taking samples around the sides of the tank will miss the contamination.

Fuel oil #2 is fairly heavy. It's not as thin as gasoline, where we've all heard stories of how far a plume can travel. Fuel oil goes straight down. Most areas around here have clay in the soil which tends to block it and keep it near the tank. Unfortunately, we're at a low point in SO. It's bottom land, with almost no clay and the oil sank until it hit ground water 12 feet down.

hauscat said:

These oil tank-related threads made me nervous so we decided to pull our 1000 UST in Dec. 2014. It had been closed in place and foam-filled by a previous owner in 1995 and was located close to a stone wall and the house. If you have a tight space, make sure the contractors you are considering see the site. I started with Mike Waters for an estimate and he warned me that he might damage the wall, so we went with someone who assured me they would not cause damage and while challenged, they did a fine job. The tank was very thick, heavy and intact so no leakage. I am so glad we pulled it - one less thing to worry about when we sell some day. I think we paid about $2200, plus we had to pay our landscaper to reset the patio pavers the next spring.

Referring to that picture I posted a few pages back:

Because our tank was under a single-width driveway next to the house, they permanently installed about a dozen helical steel piers embedded in concrete into the bedrock 25 feet down, to support the foundation. Then they dug under the garage in that corner of the house. They also dug into the neighbor's property, where they seemed to find contamination, but it seems that THEY contaminated it with their back hoe. In fact, they claimed that they found some contamination towards the back of our house, yet nothing in between for a 15 foot stretch, which makes no sense. Our neighbor was a saint about it, and he got a brand-new paved driveway out of it, far better than the gravel he'd had previously.

Sorry for the delayed update. I was the OP of this thread two years (!) ago. We did end up having our previously decommissioned 20-year-old tank pulled. It was nerve-wracking, but fortunately we encountered no problems. Hopefully our experience can provide a bit of reassurance to those in a similar situation. 

What a relief! What did you end spending!

About $2,700

NizhoniGrrrl said:

What a relief! What did you end spending!

Glad it turned out well and that seems like a bargain compared to what you've read here, huh?  We had the same experience.  It was incredibly nerve-wracking, but an enormous relief when no contamination was found!

unicorn33 said:

About $2,700

NizhoniGrrrl said:

What a relief! What did you end spending!

Yes, the horror stories are enough to keep you up at night, but it appears that most people have little or no trouble.

Interestingly, the buyers of our house did a tank scan even after we pulled the tank. I guess they were afraid that another oil tank preceded the one that we'd had for 40 years.

TDF said:

Glad it turned out well and that seems like a bargain compared to what you've read here, huh?  We had the same experience.  It was incredibly nerve-wracking, but an enormous relief when no contamination was found!

unicorn33 said:

About $2,700

NizhoniGrrrl said:

What a relief! What did you end spending!