no activity at Highland Place

Verjus is a gem!

Tillies...very good, but not one of these places that I would pop in on a tuesday night for a quick bite. it's expensive for what it is..most entree's in the high 20's low 30's.

Saigon Cafe...had a nice lunch there and dinner too. Not terribly inspired Vietnamese food, but nice for a change.

ridski said:

jeffl said:

Ugh. On good authority?

ridski said:

So anyway I heard that the buyer for HP has pulled out.

Hearsay. But I'm throwing it out here to see if anyone with good authority can tell me for certain.

Just days earlier, boomie was saying she heard a spring opening was still on track. I don't envy the challenge of getting an answer on good authority.

Zeus2112 said:

which ones? Lorenas? I'm sure that place is good. But it's not very inviting, even a little bit. Looks VERY stuffy and old, and no matter how good the food may be, I'm just not into the look or feel of that place, so I don't think i'll be eating there.

It does feel very formal. The spouse and I are from working-class backgrounds and tend to feel a bit out of place at such expensive restaurants. But we figured with a 'top NJ restaurant' right in town, we had to go and splurge on it at least once. We went this summer for the first time (after living here for almost 15 years), and we were not disappointed.

sprout said:

Zeus2112 said:

which ones? Lorenas? I'm sure that place is good. But it's not very inviting, even a little bit. Looks VERY stuffy and old, and no matter how good the food may be, I'm just not into the look or feel of that place, so I don't think i'll be eating there.

It does feel very formal. The spouse and I are from working-class backgrounds and tend to feel a bit out of place at such expensive restaurants. But we figured with a 'top NJ restaurant' right in town, we had to go and splurge on it at least once. We went this summer for the first time (after living here for almost 15 years), and we were not disappointed.

Not at all directed at you Sprout, because you seem to get it, but restaurants do not need to be all things to all people. I for one am glad that there are still formal, special occasion restaurants, as well as informal places to share with family on a regular Wednesday night. If everything is casual, is nothing special? Very glad that a formal, "stuffy" place like Lorena's exists in our towns!

jimmurphy said:

sprout said:

Zeus2112 said:

which ones? Lorenas? I'm sure that place is good. But it's not very inviting, even a little bit. Looks VERY stuffy and old, and no matter how good the food may be, I'm just not into the look or feel of that place, so I don't think i'll be eating there.

It does feel very formal. The spouse and I are from working-class backgrounds and tend to feel a bit out of place at such expensive restaurants. But we figured with a 'top NJ restaurant' right in town, we had to go and splurge on it at least once. We went this summer for the first time (after living here for almost 15 years), and we were not disappointed.

Not at all directed at you Sprout, because you seem to get it, but restaurants do not need to be all things to all people. I for one am glad that there are still formal, special occasion restaurants, as well as informal places to share with family on a regular Wednesday night. If everything is casual, is nothing special? Very glad that a formal, "stuffy" place like Lorena's exists in our towns!

Been to all three restaurants that have occupied that space. Especially like the original Suzanne's. Stuffy might

not describe my feelings about Lorena's, but I do feel I should have raised my pinky when having tea

author said:

jimmurphy said:

Not at all directed at you Sprout, because you seem to get it, but restaurants do not need to be all things to all people. I for one am glad that there are still formal, special occasion restaurants, as well as informal places to share with family on a regular Wednesday night. If everything is casual, is nothing special? Very glad that a formal, "stuffy" place like Lorena's exists in our towns!

Been to all three restaurants that have occupied that space. Especially like the original Suzanne's. Stuffy might

not describe my feelings about Lorena's, but I do feel I should have raised my pinky when having tea

I was too busy licking mine.

I'll add to Jim's comment that Lorena's is as stuffy as one makes it. A year ago, my wife and I and three other couples celebrated my wife's birthday there with lots of laughter, including a game waiter. We ended up staying late (I think it was an 8 o'clock reservation to begin with), but were never rushed. It was a memorable, even rollicking, night.

In my experience, the smaller, chef-run restaurants that know what they're doing -- no matter the decor or price point -- are the most comfortable anywhere.

I've never noticed the decor much in Lorena's. Usually it's because I'm immersed in the food, the conversation, and lovely wines which, for any given meal, have likely saved us quite a bit of money by being brought from home to be paired with food equally matched. Which is how I'd expect most to judge a restaurant of its ilk, though clearly others prefer a more superficial route. To each his own, I suppose.

DaveSchmidt said:

I'll add to Jim's comment that Lorena's is as stuffy as one makes it. A year ago, my wife and I and three other couples celebrated my wife's birthday there with lots of laughter, including a game waiter. We ended up staying late (I think it was an 8 o'clock reservation to begin with), but were never rushed. It was a memorable, even rollicking, night.

In my experience, the smaller, chef-run restaurants that know what they're doing -- no matter the decor or price point -- are the most comfortable anywhere.

+1

I don't think those of us dissatisfied with the food options here are talking about high-end special-occasion places like Lorena's (which is, don't get me wrong, really great; not a fan of Verjus, though). It's the lack of quality spots for Tuesday-night takeout or a casual meal with the family. The notion that good food is synonymous with once-a-year places like Lorena's is part of the NJ sensibility that so many of us are bummed out by. I have discovered lots of good-to great options over the years, but mostly not in the immediate area. I have adjusted my standards and expectations accordingly, and I'm pretty much used to it at this point. But it's still the biggest downside of moving here from NYC.

imonlysleeping said:
But it's still the biggest downside of moving here from NYC.

I think this is the nut of the discussion. It's not a claim that "NJ locals have bad taste in food." Star Tavern is amazing, for example. It's just that we can no longer get the quality of food we were used to when living in the city. One of the reasons I chose MSO was my perception that there was good restaurant food here. That's turned out to not be true, for me at least.

I feel like we're a couple really good, consistent, casual restaurants (with liquor licenses) away from having it all. I have really high hopes for the restaurant opening in the current South Orange village hall. (My husband keeps telling me to keep my expectations in check...)

given that whether a restaurant is "good" is a matter of personal preference, this area is never, ever going to have enough restaurants that everyone who lives here (much less everyone who moves from NYC) will think we have enough good restaurants. There are 10 times the number of people in NYC as in all of Essex County, and probably 100 times the density. Just the sheer number of restaurants, and the number crammed into each neighborhood means there will likely be something for everyone. And with that density, lots of places that deliver. We have good restaurants in SOMA and Millburn. And good take out places. We just don't have 100 in a half square mile.

And let's not forget, that even in NYC, there are people who love one particular Chinese or Thai or Indian takeout place that other people think is terrible. It's just that with a half dozen of each type of restaurant to choose from, almost everyone finds one they like.

The issue with restaurants without liquor licenses is a different story. We have 2 unused licenses in Maplewood. Hopefully they will both be in use within the next 12 months, and hopefully in places that satisfy the current demand for a nice place to relax and have a drink with dinner.

imonlysleeping said:

I don't think those of us dissatisfied with the food options here are talking about high-end special-occasion places like Lorena's (which is, don't get me wrong, really great; not a fan of Verjus, though). It's the lack of quality spots for Tuesday-night takeout or a casual meal with the family. The notion that good food is synonymous with once-a-year places like Lorena's is part of the NJ sensibility that so many of us are bummed out by. I have discovered lots of good-to great options over the years, but mostly not in the immediate area. I have adjusted my standards and expectations accordingly, and I'm pretty much used to it at this point. But it's still the biggest downside of moving here from NYC.

Thank you. That pretty much hits it.

ml1 said:

given that whether a restaurant is "good" is a matter of personal preference, this area is never, ever going to have enough restaurants that everyone who lives here (much less everyone who moves from NYC) will think we have enough good restaurants. There are 10 times the number of people in NYC as in all of Essex County, and probably 100 times the density. Just the sheer number of restaurants, and the number crammed into each neighborhood means there will likely be something for everyone. And with that density, lots of places that deliver. We have good restaurants in SOMA and Millburn. And good take out places. We just don't have 100 in a half square mile.

And let's not forget, that even in NYC, there are people who love one particular Chinese or Thai or Indian takeout place that other people think is terrible. It's just that with a half dozen of each type of restaurant to choose from, almost everyone finds one they like.

The issue with restaurants without liquor licenses is a different story. We have 2 unused licenses in Maplewood. Hopefully they will both be in use within the next 12 months, and hopefully in places that satisfy the current demand for a nice place to relax and have a drink with dinner.

I guess what I was saying, is that I feel the choices we have, are just below average. It's not about having tons of choices, like in a major city, it's just about the quality of those... And Im not talking about Lorena's or having to drive to Montclair, etc. I'm talking about the options in Maplewood and S.O, Millburn and others close by. I've tried many of the options for either delivery, take out, or dining in, and have been pretty much disappointed with most of them, sorry to say, and am amazed that many of these manage to stay afloat, given their product.

To each their own though, much like art, music, and politics, there is no wrong answer when it comes to food. The best place is the one that you like.

Why did you move to Maplewood rather than Montclair? You probably researched areas, right?

I find the choice of gift shops to be mediocre.

I knew there was something I forgot to do -- dine at half a dozen restaurants in each of the towns we were considering -- before moving here. Lousy relocation benefits.

DaveSchmidt said:

I knew there was something I forgot to do -- dine at half a dozen restaurants in each of the towns we were considering -- before moving here. Lousy relocation benefits.

If you are thinking of moving to Dubai, my niece is a relocation specialist for those on the Executive Level

She visits there frequently to check up on schools, housing and sundry topics. I'm sure I can get a discount

passed along............unless we on MOL have all be Blacklisted

author said:

If you are thinking of moving to Dubai, my niece is a relocation specialist for those on the Executive Level

She visits there frequently to check up on schools, housing and sundry topics. I'm sure I can get a discount

passed along............unless we on MOL have all be Blacklisted

No, but coincidentally, I'm thinking of moving to Nice, and pondering what sundries there I do buy.

jimmurphy said:

sprout said:

Zeus2112 said:

which ones? Lorenas? I'm sure that place is good. But it's not very inviting, even a little bit. Looks VERY stuffy and old, and no matter how good the food may be, I'm just not into the look or feel of that place, so I don't think i'll be eating there.

It does feel very formal. The spouse and I are from working-class backgrounds and tend to feel a bit out of place at such expensive restaurants. But we figured with a 'top NJ restaurant' right in town, we had to go and splurge on it at least once. We went this summer for the first time (after living here for almost 15 years), and we were not disappointed.

Not at all directed at you Sprout, because you seem to get it, but restaurants do not need to be all things to all people. I for one am glad that there are still formal, special occasion restaurants, as well as informal places to share with family on a regular Wednesday night. If everything is casual, is nothing special? Very glad that a formal, "stuffy" place like Lorena's exists in our towns!

Case in point: Verjus is our long-term favorite French place (We love Lorena's, but only go there for anniversaries, birthdays, or Big-Time Bottle o' Wine Nights... $$$$), but our dining buddies from Bergen County aren't with us unanimously: Seems that Dr. Foodnazi (married to my best pal Dr. Whyme) finds Verjus "plain... You know - not stylish, or even designerish?... And the food has no real flair, so..."

Jane and Charlie are restaurateurs of distinction. They love what they do, and probably don't feel the need to be all things to all people, with the possible exception of their great International Friday and Shore Dinner Nights... BTW: You should go if you can, and not just for Friday nights...

-s.

DaveSchmidt said:

author said:

If you are thinking of moving to Dubai, my niece is a relocation specialist for those on the Executive Level

She visits there frequently to check up on schools, housing and sundry topics. I'm sure I can get a discount

passed along............unless we on MOL have all be Blacklisted

No, but coincidentally, I'm thinking of moving to Nice, and pondering what sundries there I do buy.

We don't do Nice

Verjus is great. Very quiet and with no theme like atmosphere. Good for conversation.

my observation is that people seem to want not just good, but unusual and creative food. In a casual atmosphere. With a liquor license. A place that's popular, but not so popular that you can't get a table at the spur of the moment. With terrific service and cool decor.

And it has to be inexpensive.

I don't completely disagree with Zeus. It's not unreasonable to say that dinner and take-out options don't completely match the market. And if you're used to walking (or going a few subway stops) to a great place, getting in a car does seem to be a bit more effort.

But if I had the capital and talent to open a really cool place, I can't say that Highland Place in the village would be my first choice. It's pretty quiet during lunch, and probably quiet during dinner at the early part of the week. On weekend days, a lot of folks go off to route 10 and 22 and to do kid-related events, they're not necessarily doing sit-down lunches. So it's a big risk. Keith McNally recently wrote (Times, I think) that it's kind of amazing that anybody even bothers to open up restaurants these days (add food allergies and other preferences to the list of things owners have to address).

On the upside, we can have virtually any type of groceries delivered by box or bag to our front door. Any recipe for anything is a click away. Markets (and liquor stores) are far better and more broadly stocked than, say, 20 years ago. People generally have nice (if not great) kitchens, and grilling areas outside. It's hard to put food at the top of a list of things to worry about.

ml1 said:

my observation is that people seem to want not just good, but unusual and creative food. In a casual atmosphere. With a liquor license. A place that's popular, but not so popular that you can't get a table at the spur of the moment. With terrific service and cool decor.

And it has to be inexpensive.

And they should give you prizes for going there!

The place needs an Exorcist

What would it take to revise the archaic liquor license laws in NJ? Liquor sales can help a restaurant's profit margins but acquiring one is prohibitive. maybe if some of the local joints could increase their profit margins they could up their game food wise or take some culinary risks.

Right now to stay competitive around here you probably need to stay relatively middle of the road price wise which leads to middle of the road food.

Acquiring a liquor license costs so much that I think it's hard to stay competitive on price.

mrincredible said:

What would it take to revise the archaic liquor license laws in NJ? Liquor sales can help a restaurant's profit margins but acquiring one is prohibitive. maybe if some of the local joints could increase their profit margins they could up their game food wise or take some culinary risks.

Right now to stay competitive around here you probably need to stay relatively middle of the road price wise which leads to middle of the road food.

Acquiring a liquor license costs so much that I think it's hard to stay competitive on price.

I have to disagree that "middle of the road price wise leads to middle of the road food". If thats the excuse these places around here are using, it's a pretty poor one, and I'm not buying it. I'm not going to name the places, but I've tried many of the ones in our town and in S.O, from take out to dine in, and it is not a matter of cost of ingredients, its simply a matter of imagination, and seasoning. But, everyone has a different palette, so I can't argue if someone thinks that Roman Gourmet has good pizza.

ml1 said:

given that whether a restaurant is "good" is a matter of personal preference, this area is never, ever going to have enough restaurants that everyone who lives here (much less everyone who moves from NYC) will think we have enough good restaurants.

I hear what you're saying. It just seems like there are a dozen versions of what I consider boring / mediocre Italian American food in town. I've been to both Ricalton's and Above in the last few weeks during what should be prime time. Crickets. They are two of the newer restaurants in SO with liquor licenses and neither seems to be drawing any sort of crowd.

There is a new Greek restaurant in Cranford. Seems to be authentic but we haven't had a chance to try it yet. It has been getting good reviews. Ambeli Tavern