New CVS on Valley at Columbia HS is and odious affront to public space

FilmCarp said:
How is it that you have just noticed this? It has been discussed for over a year. I'm fine with it. It is an improvement.

I am new to Maplewood Online but haven't heard much discussion. Certainly it hasn't garnered anything near the attention the PO Site has. I agree it's an improvement to a derelict structure.

Red_Barchetta said:
The residents do care... about what they believe are priorities and what they think looks nice. If everyone thought this tract was important, you would have untold different visions of what should be done, and very little would happen in the short term. What you're really saying is that the residents should agree with you.

So your position is the residents care, but don't think it's important?

In any case, while a CVS is hardly an example of the one-of-a-kind boutiques that everybody wants, it will not impede further development of the surrounding area.

bluepool said:

Do you have a full-time job, or do you just spend your time trying to channel the ghost of Jane Jacobs?

Please do stop by my office - www.marvelarchitecs.com - I'd be pleased to show you the work we are doing to improve communities and public space. Just call ahead at 646-641-0510 to schedule and let me know your name

The new CVS is the best thing that has happened to that stretch of Valley Street in 20 years. Progress.

We have short memories... in 2009, I wrote, "What more do we need to hear of these chains to understand that the system just isn't working. This week CVS Caremark lost bigtime with a $875,000.00 settlement to NY State for selling expired products-eggs, OTC (over the counter) drugs, etc. This isn't the first time, they were found guilty of this exact negligence back in 2003, but I suppose they needed a heftier fine to have it hit home. But that was small potatoes, the stock plunged in the last few days by 20% with a billion dollar single day loss.

Let's keep vigil on these chains, call Andrew Cuomo in NY or our own state's attorney general whenever we get a whiff of rotten eggs or tylenol melting in it's container or lumpy baby formula. But still, it's not as though they're in the health care business."

Remember all this, the tylenol melting, rotten eggs, lumpy baby formula. When was the last time you heard about these types of issues from your independent pharmacy.

And yes I think if we took a vote, many people would voice horror about the Third and Valley monstrosity too. Do we need our small town to turn into North Caldwell where every square inch is taken over by housing? The architect, Richard Meier (who grew up here), warned us at that CHS talk recently... be vigilant about the scale of buildings going up.

Pathmark has an excellent pharmacy. The appeal of CVS in this regard is disingenuous.

It's better than another apartment building that'll add more overcrowding and less parking to the area.

Seems that whenever a CVS-type place goes up anywhere there are always two camps - one which decries it as ugly big-box retail, and another which celebrates the convenience and wished it had been built sooner.

I think TimFryatt raises some valid points, but I'm not sure what the solution is. People want the things these places sell, they need places to have their cars repaired, and this type of demand makes it challenging to maintain the "quaintness" that many of us prefer.

I'd certainly prefer that these types of retailers hire more sophisticated and thoughtful architects, and it would be great if the auto body folks got together and implemented a design and standards committee, but I'm not sure how that happens. That part of that stretch is in one town, and part in another, probably doesn't help the cause.

Pathmark has an excellent pharmacy? Would you like me to recount when the life threatening mistakes they made for Rxs for my daughter and I? I would be astonished if every Pathmark employee hasn't put in their application to work at the CVS instead.

While I am no fan of huge chains in general, CVS has stopped selling tobacco products and I'm hoping will open a Minute Clinic at this location - that will fill a huge need in our community for drop in medical care at reasonable prices.

they also could have put up a nice gym / pool facility ala whats available in West Orange at the JCC or the Summit Y. We have a great need still for a facility like that in our towns...

But thats of course why my name is Hoops...

Who is they and with whose money?

We live in towns where money is tight and there seems to be little enthusiasm for building community gyms or swimming pools. I am not sure where places like the Clifton Boys and Girls Club finds money for their facility, but they must have an effective fund-raising arm.

tjohn said:
Who is they and with whose money?
We live in towns where money is tight and there seems to be little enthusiasm for building community gyms or swimming pools. I am not sure where places like the Clifton Boys and Girls Club finds money for their facility, but they must have an effective fund-raising arm.

Rare the day you are the one who missed the sarcasm icon, T! ;-)

Or perhaps the longed-for vain hopes icon...

Max, I have a proven record of taking seriously posts that were meant otherwise.

apple44 said:
Seems that whenever a CVS-type place goes up anywhere there are always two camps - one which decries it as ugly big-box retail, and another which celebrates the convenience and wished it had been built sooner.
I think TimFryatt raises some valid points, but I'm not sure what the solution is. People want the things these places sell, they need places to have their cars repaired, and this type of demand makes it challenging to maintain the "quaintness" that many of us prefer.
I'd certainly prefer that these types of retailers hire more sophisticated and thoughtful architects, and it would be great if the auto body folks got together and implemented a design and standards committee, but I'm not sure how that happens. That part of that stretch is in one town, and part in another, probably doesn't help the cause.

I'm not opposed to corporate retail outright, although I share your wish they used better design. One simple planning solution is to require that new construction be built to the sidewalk, so there is a consistent streetwall. Practically every building on every commercial street in America before 1950 did this as a matter of course. Put the parking in the back. No convenience is lost, and the street doesn't look like a parking lot.

apple44 said:
Seems that whenever a CVS-type place goes up anywhere there are always two camps - one which decries it as ugly big-box retail, and another which celebrates the convenience and wished it had been built sooner.
I think TimFryatt raises some valid points, but I'm not sure what the solution is. People want the things these places sell, they need places to have their cars repaired, and this type of demand makes it challenging to maintain the "quaintness" that many of us prefer.
I'd certainly prefer that these types of retailers hire more sophisticated and thoughtful architects, and it would be great if the auto body folks got together and implemented a design and standards committee, but I'm not sure how that happens. That part of that stretch is in one town, and part in another, probably doesn't help the cause.

I'm not opposed to corporate retail outright, although I share your wish they used better design. One simple planning solution is to require that new construction be built to the sidewalk, so there is a consistent streetwall. Practically every building on every commercial street in America before 1950 did this as a matter of course. Put the parking in the back. No convenience is lost, and the street doesn't look like a parking lot.

TF - thanks for the debate. Had not heard the term "streetwall" and I get it -- but I can recount streets in NYC where buildings are not consistently up to the sidewalk, and IMO, the varied look of space and areas in front with some greenery, sometimes circular drives, some art feature, etc. adds to the character and moreover it all looks less like a canyon of brick!

max_weisenfeld said:

tjohn said:
Who is they and with whose money?
We live in towns where money is tight and there seems to be little enthusiasm for building community gyms or swimming pools. I am not sure where places like the Clifton Boys and Girls Club finds money for their facility, but they must have an effective fund-raising arm.

Rare the day you are the one who missed the sarcasm icon, T! ;-)


Or perhaps the longed-for vain hopes icon...

yes, the "vain hopes" icon. DAAAAAVE? JAAAAAIME? please?

That's a good point about the streetwall. Not sure what happened here - maybe it's overly skeptical, but I think many folks dismiss that area as utilitarian and commercial and just don't pay attention as much as they do to other areas. Hopefully this is a lesson learned.

The new CVS saddens me. The A&P could have been repurposed into a community lounge, with equal access for both Maplewood and South Orange residents. It could have benchmarked every thing that will be successful about "shared services." Plus, they could have kept a dead horse in the refrigerated section for daily beatings. What a tragically lost opportunity.

I actually think the wall itself looks rather nice. It's not a solid wall, but a low wall with some ironwork above so it's visually pleasing. That helps!

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ridski said:

skadave said:

Paul_Sotrop1 said:
The new CVS saddens me. The A&P could have been repurposed into a community lounge, with equal access for both Maplewood and South Orange residents. It could have benchmarked every thing that will be successful about "shared services." Plus, they could have kept a dead horse in the refrigerated section for daily beatings. What a tragically lost opportunity.

Are you proposing that Maplewood and South Orange should have purchased this private land to make a community center?

Yes. That's exactly what he is saying. Except it wouldn't really be a center, more of a fringe/outskirts sort of place. Community Outskirts Lounge.
With a dead horse in the fridge.

Yeah . . . I just got the joke and deleted my reply. It takes a while for my coffee to get to my brain .

tjohn said:

author said:
If you feel badly about losing the A&P cookie cutter, take heart. If the proposed cookie cutter building is erected in the Village , you can stare at it for large parts of the day as you circle the block trying to park.
No matter how anyone crunches the numbers , the amount of parking spaces in the Village will decrease.
Then again the town could keep borrowing from the 6 2 spaces at the Women's Club..........
I wonder if that purchase for a million dollars and another million dollars to bring the place to code counts as adoptive reuse.

I'm so upset about the loss of the A&P that I've taken to bed. When I recover, I hope I have the strength to commission a survey of people to determine who thinks the WC building has any aesthetic and who thinks the PO building has any aesthetic merit. My sense is that it will be close and the PO maybe winning.

My daughter's dream was to get married at the A&P ...

skadave said:
Yeah . . . I just got the joke and deleted my reply. It takes a while for my coffee to get to my brain .

Amusingly, I noticed that and deleted my reply.

Anything is better than the A&P building--well, almost anything! But I am excited about the CVS. I've walked to the one in West Orange but it took me about 1.5 hours round-trip. This will be less than 15 mins r/t

For about the 150th time..........If the Post Office is re purposed the greatest likelihood is that the outside

appearance will be greatly changed. For those who need to take allergy pills when they are nearby it......take heart, relief is coming.

TimFryatt said:

bluepool said:

Do you have a full-time job, or do you just spend your time trying to channel the ghost of Jane Jacobs?

Please do stop by my office - www.marvelarchitecs.com - I'd be pleased to show you the work we are doing to improve communities and public space. Just call ahead at 646-641-0510 to schedule and let me know your name

Thanks for the offer but I just don't have that kind of time, between my full time+ job and family caretaking responsibilities... I think the CVS designers understand the time constraints of people like me.

peteglider said:
TF - thanks for the debate. Had not heard the term "streetwall" and I get it -- but I can recount streets in NYC where buildings are not consistently up to the sidewalk, and IMO, the varied look of space and areas in front with some greenery, sometimes circular drives, some art feature, etc. adds to the character and moreover it all looks less like a canyon of brick!

I agree, and zoning typically accounts for such variation, within certain scales. There are always variances granted for special cases too.