My kitchen reno - finally finished! archived

Don't know if this is the right category as in we are definitely not the handy kind. I really wish we were, because I'm still recovering from the shock from the talk on the phone with a very nice architect.
We are considering buying a house that needs a major kitchen remodel, to start with (changing floors on bedrooms, fixing up closets, adding a master are other plans down the road). Started to get some estimates for the work and was taken by surprise that we would need to spend double of what I was planning/thinking.
Folks who renovated medium to large kitchens recently, is there hope for us??

Does the kitchen require a full gut job? We used the existing cabinets and just laid a new floor, backsplash and granite countertops. We updated all the appliances to stainless too. This cost us about a quarter that.

Not sure how large your kitchen is, but ours is what I would consider medium-size. We completely gutted the original kitchen, opened the wall to the dining room and moved a half-bath. Everything in the kitchen was replaced (floors, walls, countertop, appliances, cabinets) and we had an island put in as well. All of it (including architect fees) cost us around $70-75K. The architect had estimated it would be over $100K. Get several bids on the detail design from reputable contractors. We got 5, which came in at $31K, 34K, 41K, 48K and 55K. Now, if you want the highest end of everything (cabinets, countertops and appliances) I could see the overall cost easily ballooning past $100K.

I suggest you call Mike, at 973.380.2109. Tell him you got his number from me and MOL. Mike is the Super of a major building in the area and runs one heck of a crew of Subs to do projects such as this. He does 2 or 3 kitchens a quarter so he knows his way around in the 'real' world.

If you needed another opinion, start next with him.

Later, Da George

Ours was a small-medium kitchen that was a full-gut reno in the ballpark of $85-100k, so not crazy. Suppose if you go HD Kraftmaid or IKEA and similar low-end appliances, tile, etc that would cut into it.

I had the same response when recently speaking to an architect about my future remodel. She asked the budget and I said in teh 50K range. She quickly responded that kitchen remodels 'in our area' cost at least 100K. That compeltely turned me off since we had never discussed what kind of work I wanted and the type of finishes. Needless to say I never called her again.

big_poppa said:

Not sure how large your kitchen is, but ours is what I would consider medium-size. We completely gutted the original kitchen, opened the wall to the dining room and moved a half-bath. Everything in the kitchen was replaced (floors, walls, countertop, appliances, cabinets) and we had an island put in as well. All of it (including architect fees) cost us around $70-75K. The architect had estimated it would be over $100K. Get several bids on the detail design from reputable contractors. We got 5, which came in at $31K, 34K, 41K, 48K and 55K. Now, if you want the highest end of everything (cabinets, countertops and appliances) I could see the overall cost easily ballooning past $100K.

Would you mind sharing your architect and contractor's contacts? The kitchen I am talking about is around 250 sq ft. I think what we need is almost what you did - open one wall, replace cabinets, floor, countertop. Only appliance we'll need is a range top and I'm hoping to be able to buy a nice 36", but other than that we have everything else and no need for upscale everything. Would easily work with an Ikea kitchen.

I can't even fathom how someone could spend that much on a kitchen. It's crazy to me. Yes, we went with Ikea cabinets, but we completely redid a kitchen and powder room for under $30k. That includes about $6k worth of appliances. We didn't have to move any of the appliances or plumbing.

Giaomorim, please pm me!

That is outrageous! Our houses are not worth 100K kitchens! Are you kidding me? Do you all live in million dollar houses? That is 1/4 or more of the value of some homes in the area! WOW...
I find that the contractors in this area give you exorbitant quotes for their work. If you shop around and do your diligence you will save big bucks. I think that they believe that if you can afford the taxes in Maplewood you are loaded and will pay anything for a reno!

lynnb said:

I had the same response when recently speaking to an architect about my future remodel. She asked the budget and I said in teh 50K range. She quickly responded that kitchen remodels 'in our area' cost at least 100K. That compeltely turned me off since we had never discussed what kind of work I wanted and the type of finishes. Needless to say I never called her again.

Maybe it was the same person...

"Open one wall" can mean many things. If there is plumbing or heating inside that wall, it's more complicated and expensive (of course...). It's also more complicated if it is a load-bearing wall.

That said, we gut-renovated the kitchen, including removing walls/moving the powder room, all new plumbing, upgraded electric, all new appliances, new cabinets, granite counters, and new lighting. Most of our purchases were low-to-mid range with a sprinkling of higher-priced things (like the walnut island top, lights, windows, door). Our kitchen is smaller than yours, though I'm not sure of the exact square footage.

It's hard for me to be exact about what we spent because we did our kitchen/powder room/master bath at the same time. However, I'd guesstimate $65K for kitchen/powder room.

Architects: Clawsons
Contractor: Thompson & Sons, (East Hanover)

I absolutely believe it's possible to spend under $100K, but it takes time and effort to do it well for less.

pmartinezv said:

I find that the contractors in this area give you exorbitant quotes for their work. If you shop around and do your diligence you will save big bucks. I think that they believe that if you can afford the taxes in Maplewood you are loaded and will pay anything for a reno!

There's some truth here. We got wildly varying quotes for the exact same architectural plans. We were highly satisfied with our contractor (who came highly recommended) and his quote was mid-range, but still more than $20K less than the highest estimate.

I know someone who spent that much to renovate a small-to-medium sized kitchen, but I believe it was because they went with top-of-the-line appliances and finishes, and changed their minds about things several times, went back and re-did some work, stuff like that. No way did it seem like that was a reasonable amount to spent on a kitchen renovation, although it was not a seamless process.

But then, I also look at the kitchens in the renovation TV shows that ask you which of three kitchen renovations got the best "bang for the buck," and I find myself wondering where the hell all that money WENT!

I have received a couple of inquiries on the contractor I used. Normally, I would give his name out, but selfishly, I'm bidding out a smaller renovation project in a couple of weeks and wanted to keep him as open as possible to give me a good bid. I'm sorry!

big_poppa said:

I have received a couple of inquiries on the contractor I used. Normally, I would give his name out, but selfishly, I'm bidding out a smaller renovation project in a couple of weeks and wanted to keep him as open as possible to give me a good bid. I'm sorry!

Hehe, maybe you can give his contact after your done with your bid? Not that we are starting to work next week anyways...

lynnb said:

I had the same response when recently speaking to an architect about my future remodel. She asked the budget and I said in teh 50K range. She quickly responded that kitchen remodels 'in our area' cost at least 100K. That compeltely turned me off since we had never discussed what kind of work I wanted and the type of finishes. Needless to say I never called her again.

I wonder which areas have affordable renos. Then find contractors near those areas.

250 square feet? Sounds like you could easily do 100K. Could you do it for less? Probably. But you did cold-call a professional and ask for an educated best guess, based on very little information beyond the square footage. I supposed the professional thought it would be good for you to have "worst case scenario" information. If you were given a low number and it turned out to be much more, you'd be even more upset.

Not sure how we can find fault with the local professional for telling you something you didn't want to hear. Have you ever done a kitchen renovation before? I imagine the local professional you called has done quite a few more than any of us. Having gone through several renovations of our own, I find it's always best to err on the side of it costing more than you imagine it will, because it almost always does. So perhaps the 100K took in to account an extra 20% for overages.

Also, if you're going to go to all the trouble of investing in a new house in need of renovations, and then doing those renovations, you need to take in to account the eventual resale value of those renovations. While you might be content with an Ikea kitchen, the person who eventually buys your house might not.

meandtheboys said:

250 square feet? Sounds like you could easily do 100K. Could you do it for less? Probably. But you did cold-call a professional and ask for an educated best guess, based on very little information beyond the square footage. I supposed the professional thought it would be good for you to have "worst case scenario" information. If you were given a low number and it turned out to be much more, you'd be even more upset.

Not sure how we can find fault with the local professional for telling you something you didn't want to hear. Have you ever done a kitchen renovation before? I imagine the local professional you called has done quite a few more than any of us. Having gone through several renovations of our own, I find it's always best to err on the side of it costing more than you imagine it will, because it almost always does. So perhaps the 100K took in to account an extra 20% for overages.

I'm not finding fault with the professional, she actually was very nice and sounded very down to earth and of course well informed about her business. It was just that I was hoping we would be able to spend much less than 100K, but maybe you need to be the DIY type of person, which we are not. That big, round number was truly a shock - especially for that I was blindly guessing costs.
The reality makes you wonder if it is worth or not getting a home that needs renovation...

As the architect herself said, what is hard is to convince the house owner that their house does need a total kitchen renovation so that he prices it accordingly...

I think some local architects only want jobs of a certain value or higher, so they throw out that number to test their potential clients.

yahooyahoo said:

I think some local architects only want jobs of a certain value or higher, so they throw out that number to test their potential clients.

Yeah, most probably that's the case. Well, I guess we are not up to their standards

ctrzaska said:

Ours was a small-medium kitchen that was a full-gut reno in the ballpark of $85-100k, so not crazy. Suppose if you go HD Kraftmaid or IKEA and similar low-end appliances, tile, etc that would cut into it.

Agree.

It is certainly possible to spend that much, but it's not necessary other. As mentioned here, it depends on how "high end" you want to to. If you have a mind on resale already, take into account the neighborhood and the overall look and feel of the rest of the house. Does it really "need" a high end kitchen? Or does it need a well-functioning, attractive kitchen?

Our kitchen is small-ish and was about $15k, without appliances. We had minor plumbing work but did not need to move any walls. We did take it down to the studs and get new flooring (hardwood). We went with Ikea cabinetry as well, and granite countertops. Our house is perfectly fine but will never appeal to a luxury buyer anyway We got a range of estimates, one as high as 60k. There is just no way we needed to spend that much in our house. That estimate included recessed lighting and while that would have been fancy, they'd have had to take out our tin ceiling- which, according to that contractor "doesn't add value anyway" but is something I love about our home.

I should add that we didn't have an architect as part of the process. It was a fairly straightforward update and I basically designed it myself with the Ikea kitchen planning tool. So I'm sure if you need actual design and architectural services that does increase the price.

TarheelsInNj, who did you use as a contractor, if you don't mind revealing?

Take a couple classes and learn to do it yourself. That is nuts. In general, I have found contractors in this area to be egregiously expensive compared to other areas. I think they know that many people are not skilled in areas of homeownership - that is not a value judgement just an observation. I think many people have lived in apartments for years and did not have to worry about such things.

Our kitchen needs to be remodeled and the only part I will not do myself is the installation of the granite countertops and any electric additions. Everything else I will do - demo, tile, cabinets, hook-ups of the dishwasher and stove, opening of the wall, construction of some custom sized shelves, etc.

I had an architect come and provide ideas but I really don't need to pay for a set of plans to do it. I plan to remodel the whole kitchen for less than $10k including the appliances. The ugly cabinets are solid wood so they can be sanded and painted or stained, the existing electric is ok with recessed lighting already in place, etc. I have some experience doing this and it is something I enjoy.

I certainly would not advocate someone who is not comfortable taking a project on but I see so many discussions where people are paying crazy money for simple things (a kitchen remodel is not simple, I get that) but things like painting, window treatments, hooking up an ice-maker, ceiling fans, minor carpentry, etc. It is empowering to be able to do the basics yourself. I love the feeling of bringing water or gas from one part of the house to an area where there was none - it is awesome. Or installing a chimney liner and wood stove for a fraction of the cost of these crooked contractors (yes, I got a permit). There is so much you can do yourself if you just try.

I finished a basement in my first house and did all the wiring from the Wiring for Dummies book - it is not all that hard.

Good luck.

In another house, I did a kitchen remodel on a very tight budget. I purchased all of the appliances on payment plans (0% interest if paid off in a year), one at a time. I never felt the impact of buying the appliances, because their price was just a few dollars a month.

Once I purchased the stove and fridge, I started the remodel. I did it all - piecemeal hiring each contractor myself and doing as much of the work myself as possible.

Demo is relatively easy. It is a DIY job!

You don't have to do it all at once, especially if you aren't changing too much of the blueprint of your kitchen. Once you take out the lower cabinets - that's when it becomes painful as you no longer have a countertop and/or sink!!!

I spent about 6K overall for a small kitchen, not including appliances. It was a starter house and I didn't use granite countertops, I used the new formica that has great patterns and depth.

Good luck with your remodel!!

And look into @shhh to help you with planning it and for great tips on how to save money!

Until you really know what you want the range can't be called too high or too low. If you expand the kitchen and need to do structural work to replace walls that can add up. If you want high end counters or are changing window locations that can add up. If the electrical service to the house is substandard that can add a chunk. Its hard to sit here and blame the contractors, as some are doing, when we really don't know much about the project.

We did a small medium full gut kitchen. Granted, it was some years back, but we easily cut corners and spent about $25-30K. The reno for our house and didn't "over improve". For $50K it would have been high end.

I'm in the RE/mortgage biz and see tons of homes that are listed locally. It boggles my mind when I walk in to a smallish 3 bedroom colonial with a $150-200K kitchen. Why the heck would someone do that?!?