I highly doubt she is a russian spy. Useful idiot more likely.

mtierney said:
please forgive me for intruding into this thread, but since both Dave and Jamie are contributing here, I would like a technical question answered:
Am I the only one who finds multiple quotes from more than one poster all in the same green block very confusing?
I have to read and then reread posts to sort out who said what. I remember there once a clear delineation between statement and responder. If no one else has this issue, never mind.  

 You are not the only one, and I hope others who agree don't keep quoting this. They can just click on "Like".

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

This thread is like dancing around a funeral pyre.   No, neither Bernie or Jill Stein or any of the Dem potential nominees put us in this crappy position.

Full blame and damnation goes to  the Democratic Party for the now un questioned use of every tactic available in order to hand the nomination to the anointed one.

Joe Biden would have run but he acquiesced to the thought that it was "He turn" Freed from that

non sense he would have run and won.

Barring him there was Bernie who was the winner in many Trump vs Bernie polls

Both Bernie and Biden are slim possibilities for 2020.  I can hope.

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

ridski said:

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity leading no wage increases for something like 30 years and half the country being poor and lack of affordable healthcare or education, fewer social safety nets and disintegrating infrastructure.  People are suffering and when things get like that they vote for fake populists like Trump who turn into fascists. Most of our problems were already in place when Trump got elected.  He is making things much worse and accelerating the decline, but it was already going in that direction.  

nan said:

ridski said:

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity leading no wage increases for something like 30 years and half the country being poor and lack of affordable healthcare or education, fewer social safety nets and disintegrating infrastructure.  People are suffering and when things get like that they vote for fake populists like Trump who turn into fascists. Most of our problems were already in place when Trump got elected.  He is making things much worse and accelerating the decline, but it was already going in that direction.  

 Simply amazing convolution of cause and effect. Mindless parroting of right wing bullsh!t, masquerading as "progressive" ideals. I would accuse you of having no shame, but you are too ignorant to know better.

author said:
This thread is like dancing around a funeral pyre.   No, neither Bernie or Jill Stein or any of the Dem potential nominees put us in this crappy position.
Full blame and damnation goes to  the Democratic Party for the now un questioned use of every tactic available in order to hand the nomination to the anointed one.
Joe Biden would have run but he acquiesced to the thought that it was "He turn" Freed from that

non sense he would have run and won.
Barring him there was Bernie who was the winner in many Trump vs Bernie polls
Both Bernie and Biden are slim possibilities for 2020.  I can hope.

You know - until you venture into commenting on the 2016 election and the perfidy of the DNC and Hillary - you come across as a reasonable, intelligent person.

nan said:

ridski said:

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity leading no wage increases for something like 30 years and half the country being poor and lack of affordable healthcare or education, fewer social safety nets and disintegrating infrastructure.  People are suffering and when things get like that they vote for fake populists like Trump who turn into fascists. Most of our problems were already in place when Trump got elected.  He is making things much worse and accelerating the decline, but it was already going in that direction.  

 damn - you STILL don't know why Trump got as many voters as he did. You don't have a clue.

You still think it's "economic anxiety". lol.

drummerboy said:

nan said:

ridski said:

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity leading no wage increases for something like 30 years and half the country being poor and lack of affordable healthcare or education, fewer social safety nets and disintegrating infrastructure.  People are suffering and when things get like that they vote for fake populists like Trump who turn into fascists. Most of our problems were already in place when Trump got elected.  He is making things much worse and accelerating the decline, but it was already going in that direction.  

 damn - you STILL don't know why Trump got as many voters as he did. You don't have a clue.

You still think it's "economic anxiety". lol.

 It is, and until Democrats understand that things will only get worse.  

Dennis_Seelbach said:

nan said:

ridski said:

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity leading no wage increases for something like 30 years and half the country being poor and lack of affordable healthcare or education, fewer social safety nets and disintegrating infrastructure.  People are suffering and when things get like that they vote for fake populists like Trump who turn into fascists. Most of our problems were already in place when Trump got elected.  He is making things much worse and accelerating the decline, but it was already going in that direction.  

 Simply amazing convolution of cause and effect. Mindless parroting of right wing bullsh!t, masquerading as "progressive" ideals. I would accuse you of having no shame, but you are too ignorant to know better.

 What planet are you on when you call me "right-wing?"  It's the Democrats who attack Trump from the right when they tell him to use more military force and vote for his budget and nominees.  

nan said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

nan said:

ridski said:

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity leading no wage increases for something like 30 years and half the country being poor and lack of affordable healthcare or education, fewer social safety nets and disintegrating infrastructure.  People are suffering and when things get like that they vote for fake populists like Trump who turn into fascists. Most of our problems were already in place when Trump got elected.  He is making things much worse and accelerating the decline, but it was already going in that direction.  

 Simply amazing convolution of cause and effect. Mindless parroting of right wing bullsh!t, masquerading as "progressive" ideals. I would accuse you of having no shame, but you are too ignorant to know better.

 What planet are you on when you call me "right-wing?"  It's the Democrats who attack Trump from the right when they tell him to use more military force and vote for his budget and nominees.  

 Delusion reigns supreme. At one point, i assumed poster was intelligent, just misguided. I have been convinced otherwise.

nan said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

nan said:

ridski said:

nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:

 I hate Trump, but I don't see him as the problem.  I see him as a symptom of the problem. 

 That's like saying that lung cancer is a symptom of smoking.

No it's like lung cancer is caused by smoking and Trump is caused by neolibalism and two corrupt pro-war parties.  Of course, by the time you get to cancer it may be two late to save the patient.  Might be the same with Trump.

 So Trump exists because of government deregulation, privatization of state-owned industries and the reduction of income taxes?

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity leading no wage increases for something like 30 years and half the country being poor and lack of affordable healthcare or education, fewer social safety nets and disintegrating infrastructure.  People are suffering and when things get like that they vote for fake populists like Trump who turn into fascists. Most of our problems were already in place when Trump got elected.  He is making things much worse and accelerating the decline, but it was already going in that direction.  

 Simply amazing convolution of cause and effect. Mindless parroting of right wing bullsh!t, masquerading as "progressive" ideals. I would accuse you of having no shame, but you are too ignorant to know better.

 What planet are you on when you call me "right-wing?"  It's the Democrats who attack Trump from the right when they tell him to use more military force and vote for his budget and nominees.  

We are here on Earth.    Now it's your turn to tell us where you are.

I personally would like to see an example of Trump getting attacked from the right by a Democrat.

nan said:

jamie said:
Nan - you haven't addressed my challenge to you - please demonstrate the MSM saying that Jill Stein is a Russian spy.  Or are you indeed parroting RT propaganda?  

 Stop with the MOL homework.  I did not say it was the MSM.  I said whomever thinks Jill Stein is a Russian spy is listening to fake news and should find an alternative news source.  I don't know where they got it from--why don't you ask the people who claim that?

 ok, let me explain this better.

You're claiming that wherever people are getting the new that Stein is a Russian spy is getting it from "fake news" and should get an "alternative new source".

From my research there was one main source of this statement from a tweet by Former senior Democratic National Committee adviser, Zac Petkanas.

The repetition of this statement are by a large measure repeated by Russian propaganda outlets like RT.

So basically, you're telling people not to use alternate news sources like RT which you in fact endorse?  Do you understand my question?  

The sites that I have found rehashed this tweet are: Zerohedge, Mintpressnews, RT, Sputniknews, and TheGatewayPundit.  

nan said:

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity...

 What's neoliberal austerity?  Serious question. 

Red_Barchetta said:

nan said:

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity...

 What's neoliberal austerity?  Serious question. 

It sounds like something that Jill Klein or Assange made up on behalf of Putin. There are always people that are yelling the skies are falling. It's mostly noise.

jamie said:

nan said:

jamie said:
Nan - you haven't addressed my challenge to you - please demonstrate the MSM saying that Jill Stein is a Russian spy.  Or are you indeed parroting RT propaganda?  

 Stop with the MOL homework.  I did not say it was the MSM.  I said whomever thinks Jill Stein is a Russian spy is listening to fake news and should find an alternative news source.  I don't know where they got it from--why don't you ask the people who claim that?

 ok, let me explain this better.
You're claiming that wherever people are getting the new that Stein is a Russian spy is getting it from "fake news" and should get an "alternative new source".
From my research there was one main source of this statement from a tweet by Former senior Democratic National Committee adviser, Zac Petkanas.
The repetition of this statement are by a large measure repeated by Russian propaganda outlets like RT.
So basically, you're telling people not to use alternate news sources like RT which you in fact endorse?  Do you understand my question?  
The sites that I have found rehashed this tweet are: Zerohedge, Mintpressnews, RT, Sputniknews, and TheGatewayPundit.  

 Where did RT say Jill Stein was a Russian spy?   I did not tell anyone to use RT.  I said, and let me repeat this for at least a fourth time.  If you think Jill Stein is a Russian spy, than you are getting your information from fake news.  You need another source.  I did not tell them what that should be.  

On Mr. Surovell's sweeping epic of a thread (the "Hillary Colluded More" one), he recommended an interview with Professor Gerald Horne.  I read that, and then some of Dr. Horne's other works.  As I discussed there with Mr. Surovell, Dr. Horne identified a significant cause of the election of Trump.

It seems that the GOP "led many voters to think that there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans.  And that created an opening for Donald Trump and allowed him to win."

Of course, the GOP had some help in making that claim.

drummerboy said:
I personally would like to see an example of Trump getting attacked from the right by a Democrat.

 When they tell Trump to to increase aggression against another country, as in Russia or Syria, they are attacking from the right. When they champion the FBI/CIA they are attacking him from the right--those are the people who lied to us to get wars started and told MLK to kill himself--they are not our friends.   Democrats are supposed to be the anti-war party.

nohero said:
On Mr. Surovell's sweeping epic of a thread (the "Hillary Colluded More" one), he recommended an interview with Professor Gerald Horne.  I read that, and then some of Dr. Horne's other works.  As I discussed there with Mr. Surovell, Dr. Horne identified a significant cause of the election of Trump.
It seems that the GOP "led many voters to think that there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans.  And that created an opening for Donald Trump and allowed him to win."
Of course, the GOP had some help in making that claim.

 OK, so let's look at the facts on this, for a change.  What are the differences on foreign policy for the Republicans and Democrats?  Who voted for Trump's military budget?  Republicans or Democrats?  Who said, when billions in an increase was proposed for the military, "How are we going to pay for that?"

gerritn said:

Red_Barchetta said:

nan said:

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity...

 What's neoliberal austerity?  Serious question. 

It sounds like something that Jill Klein or Assange made up on behalf of Putin. There are always people that are yelling the skies are falling. It's mostly noise.

 You think Jill Stein or Julian Assange made up that that JIll Stein is a Russian spy for Putin??????  Like, are you not embarrassed to say something that crazy?  Where is the evidence for this?  Why do you just state obvious BS without evidence?  If you are coming to conclusions like this, you probably need new news sources too.  Definitely. 

 In the category of All-time Sweeping Epics here are the nominees:

Gone With the Wind

Lawrence of Arabia   

Ben-Hur                                                  

Dr. Zhivago

Who colluded more: Hillary or Trump, or Bill and Boris?

And the winner is:  

Who colluded more: Hillary or Trump, or Bill and Boris?

Accepting the award is Director and Producer Vladimir Putin along with Best Actor Paul Surovell.

"Comrades, thank you very much for this award.  I sure hope PWC got this right and there was no undue influence during the voting."

(uncomfortable laughter in the audience)

"This was a team effort highlighted by our ability to confound Moose and Squirrel.  It is great honor but I must share the wealth.  Paul, you must say, er, I mean, would you like to say a few words?"

"Yes sir, thank you.  Very pleased that we won this award over such stiff competition.   Certainly want to acknowledge a few people who helped us on this.   Jill Stein...where is Jill, oh right she is sitting at the table with us.  Stand up and take a bow Jill!  

(Jill Stein stands up and has a broad smile on her face.  She waves to everyone in the audience and is beaming with pride.   From the podium, Putin gives her a thumbs up and Stein is so overcome that she forms a heart with her hands and  points it in the direction of Putin.  She then mouths "Love you" to him)

"And of course, Nan"

(sparse applause, mostly from the rest of the people seated at the same table: Jimmy Dore,  Dmitry  Kiselyov, Jared Kushner)

Meanwhile on Twitter, the President offers up:

"Great win tonight for America.  Congratulations to Vladimir Putin".

Red_Barchetta said:

nan said:

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity...

 What's neoliberal austerity?  Serious question. 

 Basically, unfettered capitalism that leads to increase in wage inequality (in US now greater than during the Gilded Age) and suffering and powerlessness for those on the bottom, while a few at the top prosper.  This is a common policy inflicted on countries going through "reform" and it causes the people suffer while a few get rich beyond belief.  Here's an article to give some background, There is lots more to read on this.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/14/neoliberalism-nakedly-exposed/

nan said:

gerritn said:

Red_Barchetta said:

nan said:

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity...

 What's neoliberal austerity?  Serious question. 

It sounds like something that Jill Klein or Assange made up on behalf of Putin. There are always people that are yelling the skies are falling. It's mostly noise.

 You think Jill Stein or Julian Assange made up that that JIll Stein is a Russian spy for Putin??????  Like, are you not embarrassed to say something that crazy?  Where is the evidence for this?  Why do you just state obvious BS without evidence?  If you are coming to conclusions like this, you probably need new news sources too.  Definitely. 

 Again - only you and news sources like RT are amplyfying the phrase “Jill Stein is a Russian spy” this was my point.  And yet you did it again, i can’t believe you’re unconsciously using RT tactics here.

sbenois said:
 In the category of All-time Sweeping Epics here are the nominees:


Gone With the Wind
Lawrence of Arabia   
Ben-Hur                                                  
Dr. Zhivago
Who colluded more: Hillary or Trump, or Bill and Boris?

 

And the winner is:  

Who colluded more: Hillary or Trump, or Bill and Boris?


Accepting the award is Director and Producer Vladimir Putin along with Best Actor Paul Surovell.
"Comrades, thank you very much for this award.  I sure hope PWC got this right and there was no undue influence during the voting."

(uncomfortable laughter in the audience)
"This was a team effort highlighted by our ability to confound Moose and Squirrel.  It is great honor but I must share the wealth.  Paul, you must say, er, I mean, would you like to say a few words?"
"Yes sir, thank you.  Very pleased that we won this award over such stiff competition.   Certainly want to acknowledge a few people who helped us on this.   Jill Stein...where is Jill, oh right she is sitting at the table with us.  Stand up and take a bow Jill!  
(Jill Stein stands up and has a broad smile on her face.  She waves to everyone in the audience and is beaming with pride.   From the podium, Putin gives her a thumbs up and Stein is so overcome that she forms a heart with her hands and  points it in the direction of Putin.  She then mouths "Love you" to him)
"And of course, Nan"
(sparse applause, mostly from the rest of the people seated at the same table: Jimmy Dore,  Dmitry  Kiselyov, Jared Kushner)




Meanwhile on Twitter, the President offers up:
"Great win tonight for America.  Congratulations to Vladimir Putin".

 Now that's some classic Sbenois work.

nan said:

nohero said:
On Mr. Surovell's sweeping epic of a thread (the "Hillary Colluded More" one), he recommended an interview with Professor Gerald Horne.  I read that, and then some of Dr. Horne's other works.  As I discussed there with Mr. Surovell, Dr. Horne identified a significant cause of the election of Trump.
It seems that the GOP "led many voters to think that there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans.  And that created an opening for Donald Trump and allowed him to win."
Of course, the GOP had some help in making that claim.

 OK, so let's look at the facts on this, for a change.  What are the differences on foreign policy for the Republicans and Democrats?  Who voted for Trump's military budget?  Republicans or Democrats?  Who said, when billions in an increase was proposed for the military, "How are we going to pay for that?"

The "facts on this" are that's it relatively simple to identify where they differ, on some pretty basic principles and issues.

Some of those "facts" are actually people, some of whom are right in our community, and are nearby, and in our state, and throughout our country.  I've given up hope in convincing Ms. Nan that the consequences to them should be given any thought when deciding how to vote.

Round and round we go and where we stop nobody knows.

jamie said:

nan said:

gerritn said:

Red_Barchetta said:

nan said:

 No because of years of neoliberal austerity...

 What's neoliberal austerity?  Serious question. 

It sounds like something that Jill Klein or Assange made up on behalf of Putin. There are always people that are yelling the skies are falling. It's mostly noise.

 You think Jill Stein or Julian Assange made up that that JIll Stein is a Russian spy for Putin??????  Like, are you not embarrassed to say something that crazy?  Where is the evidence for this?  Why do you just state obvious BS without evidence?  If you are coming to conclusions like this, you probably need new news sources too.  Definitely. 

 Again - only you and news sources like RT are amplyfying the phrase “Jill Stein is a Russian spy” this was my point.  And yet you did it again, i can’t believe you’re unconsciously using RT tactics here.

 Again--Where has RT said Jill Stein is a Russian spy???????   You previously said it came from a Titter made by a prominent Democrat.  Now, you are claiming RT. You are the one bringing up RT.  I never mentioned RT.  What gives?