knob and tube wiring
Next? I think that most buyers have shyed away from buying houses with knob and tube for years. You will need to update the electric before selling, I imagine.
tjohn said:
Is knob and tube wiring remediation the next thing that is necessary to sell a house? Just wondering. I am not going anywhere for a while, but I also want to avoid nasty surprises when the time comes to sell the house.
Yes.
We've recently had discussions with 3 different realtors and this is what we were told. Thankfully, we have very little of the old stuff left in our house.
Given how many times an issue has been made of Knob and Tube wiring on various HGTV shows I expect that most buyers will have an issue with it.
It's not the NEXT thing - it's here now. Best is to remove it before you list your home. Otherwise expect to provide a hefty credit.
RobB said:
It seems to be an insurance thing.
It's already an issue with buyers and has been for a while. And yes, it is also an insurance thing.
I figured. Although insurance companies don't seem strict about it or maybe they are now but were not in 1997.
Wait a minute, are you saying you have active live knob and tube wiring ?? Or just some old inactive wiring that was upgraded but not removed? If the former, I can't imagine a buyer agreeing to buy your house unless you upgrade it..
If you have active knob and tube replace it for your own safety, not to sell.
Active knob and tube is not normally a safety issue - given that our house has had k&t for over 100 years without incident should be enough proof. However, given the reality of a buyers market it makes sense to replace the k&t as you are able. One additional benefit of replacing the k&t in addition to opening up the number of insurers willing to insure your house - I believe that Chubb is the only insurer in NJ currently willing to insure a k&t house - is the ability to insulate your exterior walls. This is where there have been problems in the past. People were unaware of the dangers of placing insulation alongside k&t wiring with disastrous results.
When we bought in 1997 it was already a big issue, we wouldn't have gotten insurance from our usual place. Nothing lasts forever. 100 years in I think it's time to upgrade.
seriously, you should upgrade as soon as you can -- you will have to anyway if you plan to sell the house, and the sooner you do it the safer you and your family will be while you continue to live there...
ancient wiring type:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring
SGW said:
Active knob and tube is not normally a safety issue - given that our house has had k&t for over 100 years without incident should be enough proof. However, given the reality of a buyers market it makes sense to replace the k&t as you are able. One additional benefit of replacing the k&t in addition to opening up the number of insurers willing to insure your house - I believe that Chubb is the only insurer in NJ currently willing to insure a k&t house - is the ability to insulate your exterior walls. This is where there have been problems in the past. People were unaware of the dangers of placing insulation alongside k&t wiring with disastrous results.
The insulation issue must have been the primary driver I bet. But additionally you have to assume whoever is using the outlet (kids, guests) are going to respect the load limitations on a k&t circuit. Additionally, that old insulation if left alone can indeed last for a long time.... But it's fragile now at the age it's at and can basically slough right off with little disturbance. Think mice, squirrels.
Plus they spliced it all together without junction boxes. Given that the splices have held up you gotta tip your hat to that old electrician who did the work.
No way to ground either.
Snaking wires seems to be pretty easy in these old ballon construction houses. We upgraded our box and a lot of other weird stuff that was in there, put in a new panel, 2 subs and new circuits as well as a bunch of new light fixtures. Wasn't so bad.... Granted I didn't do it but our sparky said it was a lark.
We had part of a ceiling opened for another reason and I almost had a heart attack when I saw the old k&t. All the outlets had grounds but the seller was so weird I was having doubts about the truthfulness of their claims. Lots of DIY work had been done, poorly. Still remember checking each outlet for ground and getting up there with a chicken stick to see if it was live. Wasn't. Much relieved.
Knob and tube means potentially no homeowner's insurance. No homeowner's insurance means no mortgage because you can't finance the property.
My sister in MA just found some K&T in her back hallway during a kitchen reno. In order to pass her inspections, she had to remove all of it. It cost $1000's of $ and created quite a few opened walls and ceilings. Her electrician (a friend) told her she was lucky.
My sister in MA just found some K&T in her back hallway during a kitchen reno. In order to pass her inspections, she had to remove all of it. It cost $1000's of $ and created quite a few opened walls and ceilings. Her electrician (a friend) told her she was lucky.
How do you determine if you still have any knob and tubing wiring present in your home?
Oct 17, 2014 at 2:43pm Edited
@Sweetsnuggles check your basement for it, if it is physically there it could be active or could not -- you can use one of those voltage probes to see if it is active (i think i have one if you need to borrow it). Most likely your inspector checked when you purchased your home though.
The bigger challenge is IF the electric was partially upgraded, but knob and tube wiring was left in some walls ... usually homeowners find this when ripping out walls / doing renovation. One potential warning sign is if you have ungrounded outlets, although that does not necessarily mean there is knob and tube behind them... If your basement has no old knob and tube hardware remnants then most likely you are ok, but I would double check in any house built early 1900s or before.
The bigger challenge is IF the electric was partially upgraded, but knob and tube wiring was left in some walls ... usually homeowners find this when ripping out walls / doing renovation. One potential warning sign is if you have ungrounded outlets, although that does not necessarily mean there is knob and tube behind them... If your basement has no old knob and tube hardware remnants then most likely you are ok, but I would double check in any house built early 1900s or before.
My home was built in 1912 with knob and tube wiring. Most likely know that knob and tube only has two leads, basically black and white ones. The third plain copper lead, a ground, was not installed in those days.
I have a somewhat interesting story about it though. Almost 30 years ago, during a winter ice storm, a tree limb fell on the power line to my home. When it fell, it pulled the service mast from my house and bent the steel pipe, which caused that third copper line to become hot. Instead of blowing a transformer or a main breaker in my home (that plain copper wire is never connected to a breaker in the home), all the newer wiring in my home which contained that copper lead began to glow like an electric heater, burning every piece of combustible material it touched, like floor joists and wall studs. The fire department was called, and when they finally arrived they cut the power cable to our home out in the yard. Damage to our home was limited to the basement, only because that's where the newer wiring had been installed. The upper floors of my home, which are still wired with knob and tube, suffered no damage. If my home was wired throughout with todays modern wiring, it would have been a completely different story, with smoldering wood and wire insulation inside every wall, floor and ceiling.
So, I am thankful that I have knob and tube wiring!
I have a somewhat interesting story about it though. Almost 30 years ago, during a winter ice storm, a tree limb fell on the power line to my home. When it fell, it pulled the service mast from my house and bent the steel pipe, which caused that third copper line to become hot. Instead of blowing a transformer or a main breaker in my home (that plain copper wire is never connected to a breaker in the home), all the newer wiring in my home which contained that copper lead began to glow like an electric heater, burning every piece of combustible material it touched, like floor joists and wall studs. The fire department was called, and when they finally arrived they cut the power cable to our home out in the yard. Damage to our home was limited to the basement, only because that's where the newer wiring had been installed. The upper floors of my home, which are still wired with knob and tube, suffered no damage. If my home was wired throughout with todays modern wiring, it would have been a completely different story, with smoldering wood and wire insulation inside every wall, floor and ceiling.
So, I am thankful that I have knob and tube wiring!
wow that is some story, probably a first of knob and tube PREVENTING a fire 
thanks for sharing!
thanks for sharing! Anyone have knob and tube removed recently? Looking for recommendations for contractors you would recommend...or no
lynnl199 said:
Anyone have knob and tube removed recently? Looking for recommendations for contractors you would recommend...or no
TJ- you can abandon it rather than going through opening the walls/ceilings to get it out.....it's probably not a bad idea to get rid of everything easily accessible but you don't have to extirpate every inch of it like it was never there- which you'll never be able to do anyway since it runs through the joists rather than along it.
There are some code requirements that address the level of hurt you have to do to the original circuit to ensure it's not easily re-connected
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tjohn