Jussie Smollett - what an idiot

@drummerboy -   Nicely done. Respect

drummerboy said:

I know you wrote that flippantly, but the issue is real for us white folks. While intellectually we know all about racism and what we should do to avoid it, the mind is a strange thing, of which we don't have total control. And if someone is rationally telling you that maybe what you're saying is more racist that you want to admit, you should probably take some time and examine it.
I've had to do that quite a few times here at MOL. Fighting racism as a white person presents its own set of personal challenges.

Agreed. However, just as unconscious bias can be a factor in what is said or written so too can it be a  factor in what is read and heard. While writers, I among them, should consider how what we write may unintentionally incorporate a bias, so too must it be recognized that a reader also operationalizes his/her own biases as he/she is taking in the information.  While I can appreciate how one reader can interpret something differently than another because of their lived experience, just because one person reads something in a certain way does not constitute a defacto case that it is what that person construes it to be. While Flimbro writes often and eloquently on matters of race, and his posts evoke questions worth pondering, his is not the only voice of reason on a matter nor is he the designated arbiter on what is or is not "textbook racism".  I cannot imagine that he would disagree with that statement.  

You are among the 2-3 MOL posters who consistently mock and deride the perspectives of those with whom you disagree while you hold forth your views as being the "correct" ones.  Can we all assume you will extend this new-found level of courtesy to other posters whose views/perspectives on various issues you regularly have mocked and ridiculed?

terp said:

DaveSchmidt said:
Public Service Announcement
Titania McGrath is satire.
We hope you enjoyed this sample.

 I would amend that statement.  Titania is one of the funniest trolls on twitter.  To wit:

 I’m a huge fan of @drnifkin myself.

ridski said:

I’m a huge fan of @drnifkin myself.

 Wait. You aren’t ... ?

Norman_Bates said:

drummerboy said:

I know you wrote that flippantly, but the issue is real for us white folks. While intellectually we know all about racism and what we should do to avoid it, the mind is a strange thing, of which we don't have total control. And if someone is rationally telling you that maybe what you're saying is more racist that you want to admit, you should probably take some time and examine it.
I've had to do that quite a few times here at MOL. Fighting racism as a white person presents its own set of personal challenges.

Agreed. However, just as unconscious bias can be a factor in what is said or written so too can it be a  factor in what is read and heard. While writers, I among them, should consider how what we write may unintentionally incorporate a bias, so too must it be recognized that a reader also operationalizes his/her own biases as he/she is taking in the information.  While I can appreciate how one reader can interpret something differently than another because of their lived experience, just because one person reads something in a certain way does not constitute a defacto case that it is what that person construes it to be. While Flimbro writes often and eloquently on matters of race, and his posts evoke questions worth pondering, his is not the only voice of reason on a matter nor is he the designated arbiter on what is or is not "textbook racism".  I cannot imagine that he would disagree with that statement.  
You are among the 2-3 MOL posters who consistently mock and deride the perspectives of those with whom you disagree while you hold forth your views as being the "correct" ones.  Can we all assume you will extend this new-found level of courtesy to other posters whose views/perspectives on various issues you regularly have mocked and ridiculed?

If you mean I should respect all offered opinions, no matter how ridiculous, that would be a big no. For that way lies the dreaded disease of centrism, where armadillos go to die.

DaveSchmidt said:

ridski said:

I’m a huge fan of @drnifkin myself.

 Wait. You aren’t ... ?

Nah. But... Shh... Don't tell anyone, but I'm actually Socialist Mike Rowe.

https://twitter.com/DJDadMCMom69

Norman_Bates said:

drummerboy said: I know you wrote that flippantly, but the issue is real for us white folks. While intellectually we know all about racism and what we should do to avoid it, the mind is a strange thing, of which we don't have total control. And if someone is rationally telling you that maybe what you're saying is more racist that you want to admit, you should probably take some time and examine it.
I've had to do that quite a few times here at MOL. Fighting racism as a white person presents its own set of personal challenges.

Agreed. However, just as unconscious bias can be a factor in what is said or written so too can it be a  factor in what is read and heard. While writers, I among them, should consider how what we write may unintentionally incorporate a bias, so too must it be recognized that a reader also operationalizes his/her own biases as he/she is taking in the information.  While I can appreciate how one reader can interpret something differently than another because of their lived experience, just because one person reads something in a certain way does not constitute a defacto case that it is what that person construes it to be. While Flimbro writes often and eloquently on matters of race, and his posts evoke questions worth pondering, his is not the only voice of reason on a matter nor is he the designated arbiter on what is or is not "textbook racism".  I cannot imagine that he would disagree with that statement.  
You are among the 2-3 MOL posters who consistently mock and deride the perspectives of those with whom you disagree while you hold forth your views as being the "correct" ones.  Can we all assume you will extend this new-found level of courtesy to other posters whose views/perspectives on various issues you regularly have mocked and ridiculed?

LOL

As my daughter would say, "Oh so it's the low key shade now, innit?"

(Translated for a mainstream demographic: "damning with faint praise")

What an odd energy you've decided to generate. 

What was the catalyst? Was it @drummerboy confessing to growth and acceptance of the fact that the world includes other people? I thought that was great, why not commend and celebrate his recalculation?  Or was it my attempt to pull apart your casually tossed off pronouncements to reveal how they might be seen/heard/felt by someone else?  What part of your 'lived experience' bristled and put you on alert?

Yeah, we all filter what we read or hear through our lived experiences- do you know of another option?  I am the leading expert on my lived experiences and I am the designated arbiter on textbook racism- as I've lived it. And that's all I've ever presented here on these boards. If you identify as a white man you have zero experience and zero authority in quantifying the real effects of textbook racism. With some scholarship you may be able to write authoritatively on the desired effects of institutional racism or the benefits derived from such a system. And eventually, with some introspection you may be able to write about the dismantling of or the efficacy of anti-racism, but you'll never be capable of providing expert testimony on the day to day ins and outs or manifestations of white racism. Why? Because you're blind to so much of it.  Your bias prevents you from seeing it while my bias makes it impossible not to see it- because I live it.

Here's an example using thoughts from another poster:

He wrote:

 "I don't care that he committed a crime that wasted a bunch of cops' time.  I'm more bothered that the manner of crime he committed; that he used his race and orientation in an effort to benefit himself, has a possibility of inspiring more discrimination against people like him.  You are free to find racism in this statement as your experience dictates."

Now read that again and keep in mind that the author is a white, presumably straight, American man.

"I don't care that he committed a crime that wasted a bunch of cops' time. [ I'm more bothered that the manner of crime he committed; that he used his race and orientation in an effort to benefit himself, ] has a possibility of inspiring more discrimination against people like him.  You are free to find racism in this statement as your experience dictates."

This poster is really disgusted by a gay Black man trying to use his race and 'orientation' to make more money. Now, here's what my 'lived experience' filter allows me to see. A straight white male American who sits at the very top of the food chain complaining that someone else has used their RACE and ORIENTATION to further their personal agenda. Who on this planet has invested more time, energy and resources into creating advantages for themselves by using their race and orientation?  Are you following? Who on this planet has invested more time, energy and resources into creating advantages for themselves by using their race and orientation to the deadly detriment of other civilizations, groups of people, genders, religions, air, water-  whatever. 

_____________________ You fill in the blank.

["...has a possibility of inspiring more discrimination against people like him."]

With this, the poster goes on to bemoan the sad fact that by doing this the gay Black man has only increased the possibility that the racist and homophobic systems (of which the poster has always been a beneficiary BTW) will only direct MORE discrimination towards him. As if so much good work was being ruined by this one simple selfish act and now "unfortunately" racism and homophobia which had been on the wane, was going to roar back and claim even more victims "like him". Yes, the Black gay guy is responsible for rejuvenating racist attitudes and hatred of gay people- it's his fault- and just when we were  t  h  i  s  close.  

So, the poster is upset that someone else has attempted to do the exact same thing that he's perfected over generations. He also accuses Smollett, the victim of structural racism and gay bias (two institutions that have actually protected the poster from competition from birth) of inspiring and inciting those very institutions.

Finally, the poster graciously bequeaths me the freedom to find any vestiges of racism in anything that he's written.   

I don't think the poster is a bad guy- same goes for you. I just don't think you can see what you've been trained to ignore.  Especially when by ignoring it you've prospered or at the very least been satisfied- so why change? 

Now, tell me what I've misinterpreted. 

Meanwhile, Fox News has been giving this story more coverage than some major wars.

tjohn said:
Meanwhile, Fox News has been giving this story more coverage than some major wars.

 geeIwonderwhy

whenever I’m in Chitown, what I like to do, is just put on a big ol’ Red MAGA hat.  Stroll the Navy Pier.  Maybe grab a bite and hang out by the Bean, ‘n jus’, y’know,

Feel the love.

drummerboy said:

tjohn said:
Meanwhile, Fox News has been giving this story more coverage than some major wars.

 geeIwonderwhy

The Coast Guard terrorist guy is going to send Fox a thank you note.