John McCain has brain cancer
ml1 said:To be fair, the reason for the harshness of most of my criticism isn't really about John McCain personally. He's doing what anyone in his position as a Senator would do. My criticisms are so pointed because our media and regular folks have turned John McCain into a heroic figure as a Senator, which he is absolutely not.
They are just grading on a curve.
LOST said:
ml1 said:To be fair, the reason for the harshness of most of my criticism isn't really about John McCain personally. He's doing what anyone in his position as a Senator would do. My criticisms are so pointed because our media and regular folks have turned John McCain into a heroic figure as a Senator, which he is absolutely not.
They are just grading on a curve.
the political pundit class seems oddly susceptible to falling for people's words and ignoring their actions.
ml1 said:
I wish McCain would use his platform and the likelihood that he's terminally ill and doesn't have to face election again to speak out for real reform on health care. How much influence could he have in trying to push forward the idea of universal health care? Maybe not much given the powerful corporate and ideological forces aligned against it. But wouldn't it be great to see him make a speech saying that every American has the right to the kind of treatment he's getting, regardless of their income?
I'm kinda hoping for this also, and something like it could happen. But it is also possible that he may choose or be forced by his illness to go home to AZ and that would be entirely understandable. I just hope that if he is able and chooses to continue in Washington that he will take advantage of his situation to push whatever policies he genuinely believes in, rather than those of his party leadership or financial backers or whatever. Even if I don't agree with them, I would respect that.
The Sanctimony and Sin of G.O.P. ‘Moderates’ -- Paul Krugman
you can only milk something for so long. Everything about his life post-POW says non-hero. Last night was very , very rare highlight.
conandrob240 said:
Geez, I think he earned the title of heroic LONG before last night. There's that little POW thing in his past. smh
What he did last night was awesome!
yeah, well most of the pundit class are not terribly intelligent. They merely have the talent of being able to talk forever while sounding reasonably coherent.
ml1 said:
LOST said:
ml1 said:
To be fair, the reason for the harshness of most of my criticism isn't really about John McCain personally. He's doing what anyone in his position as a Senator would do. My criticisms are so pointed because our media and regular folks have turned John McCain into a heroic figure as a Senator, which he is absolutely not.
They are just grading on a curve.
the political pundit class seems oddly susceptible to falling for people's words and ignoring their actions.
BS. His life is one you or I might not agree with. But I can separate that from the human being. He's a decent human being. I'd be sad at the policies but proud to have him representing our country despite disagreeing with most of what he stands for. And, yes, sorry POW, war hero- you do get to milk that for life.
drummerboy said:
you can only milk something for so long. Everything about his life post-POW says non-hero. Last night was very , very rare highlight.
conandrob240 said:
Geez, I think he earned the title of heroic LONG before last night. There's that little POW thing in his past. smh
What he did last night was awesome!
yahooyahoo said:
That's a bit much. His vote earlier in the week helped the Republicans get to the point of potentially passing the skinny repeal.
Don't forget, there were two other senators that voted no last night. McCain seems to be getting all the credit.
fairplay said:
bub said:
I don't thing John McCain's last hurrah on this earth is going to be the delivery of a victory to the a-hole in chief.
It was truly heroic.
I think there was more in his plan than many of us realize. If this whole thing was indeed strategy, he has screwed Trump and the repeal crowd really badly.
I was among the people who was pissed earlier in the week when he voted to begin the debate on the repeal. I thought he should have just voted no to stop the process there and then. By being the 50th senator to vote yes to debate, he moved the process to a point of no turning back. If he had voted no or made his intention to vote no as well known as Murkowski and Collins, McConnell would have realized he did not have the votes and would have continued delay of the vote while he attempted to change minds or the content of the bill.
The key point here is that this attempt was done under reconciliation. Now that they have used their once-per-year reconciliaton vote and obtained nothing for it. If they want to continue their pursuit of repeal, they will need 60 votes. I expect in the coming days we will know better of McCain's intention here. Perhaps it was all an effort to F Trump, perhaps he is thinking about his legacy given his recent diagnosis.
consider this:
John McCain did a heroic thing as a young man. And spent the rest of his life screwing people over because he voted straight Republican almost all of the time. AND he inflicted Sarah Palin on us, which arguably led to Trump. (not to even mention Charles Keating)
Edward Kennedy did a horrible thing as a young man and used his family's power to escape serious punishment. He spent the rest of his life as a powerful liberal, championing the rights and dreams of those far less fortunate than himself. And, he inflicted no one on us.
McCain took his early experience and milked it to selfish ends for the rest of his life.
Kennedy took his early experience and did the exact opposite.
Who is the more honorable man?
conandrob240 said:
BS. His life is one you or I might not agree with. But I can separate that from the human being. He's a decent human being. I'd be sad at the policies but proud to have him representing our country despite disagreeing with most of what he stands for. And, yes, sorry POW, war hero- you do get to milk that for life.
drummerboy said:
you can only milk something for so long. Everything about his life post-POW says non-hero. Last night was very , very rare highlight.
conandrob240 said:
Geez, I think he earned the title of heroic LONG before last night. There's that little POW thing in his past. smh
What he did last night was awesome!
none of us know John McCain personally. I can only judge his public actions. And the public Senator John McCain isn't any more or less honorable than any other politician. He has had amazing press coverage through his career that has convinced a lot of people that he's a different kind of Republican. He's not. And his vote this week on the "skinny repeal" was a prime example. Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski were the standup Republicans on health care. They were against repeal all along. But they didn't grandstand at the 11th hour and make it all about them the way John McCain did. It's always about McCain. Most of the time as senator, he's self-serving and hypocritical. It doesn't make him a terrible person. It makes him a typical person. Not a villain. But also not the hero people want him to be.
ml1 said:
Most of the time as senator, he's self-serving and hypocritical. It doesn't make him a terrible person. It makes him a typical person.
A typical person is self-serving and hypocritical?
BG9 said:
ml1 said:
Most of the time as senator, he's self-serving and hypocritical. It doesn't make him a terrible person. It makes him a typical person.
A typical person is self-serving and hypocritical?
at times. You never behave or speak in a self-serving way? You don't ever espouse one thing or do another? I do. I think we all do. The best of us do it less than most. The worst of us do it more than most.
another aspect of him being a typical person is his much lauded comment during the 2008 campaign, where he pushed back against a comment by a woman at a town hall, who said "Obama is a lousy Muslim" or words to that effect, and McCain responded by saying, paraphrased "No, Prez. Obama is an honorable family man. We just have political disagreements."
His response was that of a normal, reasonable, grounded-in-reality person, but it was treated as a great act of courage and is part of his "legend" now.
The guy often sounds extremely reasonable in his commentary, probably more so than any modern Republican, but it simply is not reflected in his actions.
Still, I'm grateful he did what he did Friday morning.
ml1 said:
BG9 said:
ml1 said:
Most of the time as senator, he's self-serving and hypocritical. It doesn't make him a terrible person. It makes him a typical person.
A typical person is self-serving and hypocritical?
at times. You never behave or speak in a self-serving way? You don't ever espouse one thing or do another? I do. I think we all do. The best of us do it less than most. The worst of us do it more than most.
drummerboy said:
another aspect of him being a typical person is his much lauded comment during the 2008 campaign, where he pushed back against a comment by a woman at a town hall, who said "Obama is a lousy Muslim" or words to that effect, and McCain responded by saying, paraphrased "No, Prez. Obama is an honorable family man. We just have political disagreements."
His response was that of a normal, reasonable, grounded-in-reality person, but it was treated as a great act of courage and is part of his "legend" now.
She said "I think he is an Arab".
Why didn't he responded, " He is not an Arab, but there is nothing wrong with being an Arab. There are many Arab-Americans, but if you meant "Muslim", Obama is a Christian, but there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim."
LOST said:
drummerboy said:
another aspect of him being a typical person is his much lauded comment during the 2008 campaign, where he pushed back against a comment by a woman at a town hall, who said "Obama is a lousy Muslim" or words to that effect, and McCain responded by saying, paraphrased "No, Prez. Obama is an honorable family man. We just have political disagreements."
His response was that of a normal, reasonable, grounded-in-reality person, but it was treated as a great act of courage and is part of his "legend" now.
She said "I think he is an Arab".
Why didn't he responded, " He is not an Arab, but there is nothing wrong with being an Arab. There are many Arab-Americans, but if you meant "Muslim", Obama is a Christian, but there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim."
I posted this at the beginning of the thread.
Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii traveled to DC to vote No after being diagnosed with Stage 4 kidney cancer, but she's not being called a hero.
paulsurovell said:
Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii traveled to DC to vote No after being diagnosed with Stage 4 kidney cancer, but she's not being called a hero.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
"Where is your compassion? Where is the care that you showed me when I was diagnosed with my illness?” Hirono asked before the Senate narrowly voted down the measure. “I find it hard to believe that we can sit here and vote on a bill that is going to hurt millions and millions of people in our country. We are better than that."
Unfortunately the answer is "no, your Republican colleagues are not better than that."
again, I don't think the hero title for McCain has much to do with his travel to DC. He earned that title many years ago. You get to keep it for life. And, no, it doesn't mean you don't question or criticize but it does mean you should do so with respect.
McCain gets to keep his role with the Keating Five for life, too. A $3.5 billion dollar American taxpayer rip-off and slaps on the wrist for the crooks like McCain.
McCain earned his status as a hero because of his time as a POW. Last year Trump insulted every POW in our history and McCain said nothing because he wanted power more than anything.
I can only conclude that at least a few people think McCain's heroism as a POW, and possibly also his cancer diagnosis should shield him from blunt criticism of his actions in office.
Because I'm pretty sure no one would be complaining about disrespect if I called Chris Christie or Ted Cruz phony, grandstanding hypocrites.
FilmCarp said:
McCain earned his status as a hero because of his time as a POW. Last year Trump insulted every POW in our history and McCain said nothing because he wanted power more than anything.
and you'd think a former POW might be a little bit less enthusiastic about sending today's military into harm's way. But if it was up to McCain, we'd have had our troops in even more countries fighting even more wars than we already have.
Having been a POW for five years does not give him a pass for the rest of his life.
shoshannah said:
Having been a POW for five years does not give him a pass for the rest of his life.
I'd have to agree. I would never disrespect his military service and heroism (like that ******* in the White House did) but as a senator, he sucks.
No one here has even come close to disrespecting his service. Not even me.
The_Soulful_Mr_T said:
shoshannah said:
Having been a POW for five years does not give him a pass for the rest of his life.
I'd have to agree. I would never disrespect his military service and heroism (like that ******* in the White House did) but as a senator, he sucks.
I think maybe the issue is that my language has been too blunt when I criticize McCain. I probably should be more measured. Maybe something like "It is my observation that the esteemed Senator from Arizona has on occasion not had the best interests of the entirety of the populace in mind when he has gone about his legislative business. I hereby disagree with him, respectfully but in the strongest terms. Now good day sir!"
ml1 said:
I think maybe the issue is that my language has been too blunt when I criticize McCain. I probably should be more measured. Maybe something like "It is my observation that the esteemed Senator from Arizona has on occasion not had the best interests of the entirety of the populace in mind when he has gone about his legislative business. I hereby disagree with him, respectfully but in the strongest terms. Now good day sir!"
Ha! Yes, that's much better.
Yeah, but they're just girls.