JMF Properties Is Showing Proposed Plan For Post Office Site Tonight

ArchBroad said:

Someone did bring up the issue with the perspective. And the VA replied that the PODRS had issues with that as well, which is why they requested clear elevation diagrams showing the adjacent building height comparisons, which were provided. Renderings are illustrative and must always be supplemented with technical drawings that show the facts.

And what exactly is wrong with the converted factory look? There is no discernable style to Maplewood Village. It's a hodgpodge of different building styles. Each one, taken by themselves is nothing special. The proposed building looks similarly indistinct, so it blends in with everything else that is indistinct. It's perfectly bland, just like everything else in the Village. That blandness is what gives the Village its character. I like that they picked up on a style that is only hinted at in the Village and is not prominent, so it doesn't look like they just copied some existing building. Civic and cultural buildings should be grand. Retail buildings with apartments on top, should blend in with everything else.

When all of these random styled buildings are combined together on the street, it just looks "right", but you can't determine what it is that is right, because no one building stands out. This building just continues that tradition.

 Each village building has ornaments that show civic pride. And are blended - homogonized - by age and scale. Do you seriously think this large bulky box - tarted up with cheap tricks -  won't stand out?

So many people here are afraid of change, it's amazing. This is not Southhampton. We should stop pretending that it is. "Standing out" is that behemoth parking garage in Millburn that is pretending to not be a parking garage. The PO project is the same height as many other buildings in town, and with the same cheap tricks that they all have.

ETA: 

I'd like to know what it is about all of these amazing buildings (individually) some people find so endearing? And what architectural qualities you'd like to see replicated on a new PO building. Would it have made everyone happier if they had picked up on that fake chalet style? It's like an encyclopedia of styles in the Village, with rarely any significant detail except on the bank, the theater and less than a handful of isolated other instances that one would need to look very, very hard to pinpoint. It's the conglomeration of all the mundane put together that give the Village its charm. The fact that the new building is not perfect, is going to be great. All of those existing buildings have oddities and problems. The new building will fit right in. 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6023/5979779956_1f44433202_b.jpg

http://media.nj.com/star-ledger/photo/2009/10/8096765-standard.jpg

https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6004/5982709409_dab91586c1_n.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Maplewood_NJ_village_Dec_2005.jpg

http://media.nj.com/star-ledger/photo/2009/10/8096764-standard.jpg

http://blog.goodhomesforgoodpeople.com/files/2012/02/halloween2b20112b002.jpg

Very few buildings in the village actually stand up to aesthetic scrutiny if you consider them individually. The building that houses Garubo is especially egregious. The faux Tudor on Arturo's and the Leo Nails buildings, which is probably endearing to most residents, is a "cheap trick." People like what's here because those are the buildings that are here. 

ArchBroad............the proposed what ever you want to call it building will be the tallest single building in Maplewood Village.

Interesting that  a Shadow Study has been called for and apparently authorized  I guess others are concerned.

And the conflict between the Patio/coffee area and the turn around area for the Tractor Trailers used by Kings is down right hilarious. Cannot imagine how Annette De Palma is being used to remedy the situation.

DaveSchmidt said:

Agreed. Those are some of the reasons the post office appeals to me.

 The broken windows and garbage add a certain urban quality, too.

If it is, and that is still to be decided (since I think a couple of buildings with their massive gables might beat it), it might be by about only 8 feet (the building is roughly 2 feet taller than VC on the uphill side, and because of the slop of Maplewood Avenue is 6 feet additional in height near VC, so 8 feet). The building is also setback from the street signficantly more than the others, so this is going to reduce its shadow impact. This is also why the building looks slightly off in those perspectives. It's not going to kill anyone to have an 8 foot taller building, that will eliminate us all having to see 21 additional cars parked in an uncovered lot. That's a tradeoff I'm willing to accept.

Someone on the VA (mayor? can't remember) also stated that King's has always made illegal turns into their lot for deliveries, so it's not like this problem was a surprise. The VA doesn't even want them making the deliveries the way they are currently making them, yet they refuse to offload to smaller trucks to make deliveries.

Well in one of the few concessions you will ever get from me............Using the drawings of the buildings, it seems to me that the patio/coffee area extends out about 15 feet.  There are tables drawn in and a few people having coffee or whatever.  That seems workable given the entrance to the parking lot is there for the Tractor Trailers to use for their parking maneuvers.

But where there could be a problem is that the trucks will come to within a very few feet of those dining/relaxing at the tables.

Diesel engine exhaust is loud and not pleasant to smell.   Don't see that you can have both diners and diesels so close to each

other at the same time.

The Kings deliveries are at something like 6:45 am. I doubt it will conflict with dining  

dave23 said:

The broken windows and garbage add a certain urban quality, too.

author said:

Diesel engine exhaust is loud and not pleasant to smell.

You guys are making me homesick. Sadly, two of the three will eventually disappear no matter what the plan is.

ml1 said:

Very few buildings in the village actually stand up to aesthetic scrutiny if you consider them individually. The building that houses Garubo is especially egregious. The faux Tudor on Arturo's and the Leo Nails buildings, which is probably endearing to most residents, is a "cheap trick." People like what's here because those are the buildings that are here. 

You left out the rusted fire escapes and crumbling exterior dangling over outdoor diners at Arturo's.  Ornaments of civic pride, indeed.

Comes back (as Meier indicated) to scale. Station House II is still at least 4 times the size of anything on the street. As to the design: The miltant embrace of mediocrity is mystifying. It could be a lot better.

ml1 - Deliveries for King's are made throughout the day. Traffic is often stopped while the huge trucks manage to maneuver into that tiny space. I don't know how those drivers do it.

pastrez said:

ArchBroad said:

Someone did bring up the issue with the perspective. And the VA replied that the PODRS had issues with that as well, which is why they requested clear elevation diagrams showing the adjacent building height comparisons, which were provided. Renderings are illustrative and must always be supplemented with technical drawings that show the facts.

And what exactly is wrong with the converted factory look? There is no discernable style to Maplewood Village. It's a hodgpodge of different building styles. Each one, taken by themselves is nothing special. The proposed building looks similarly indistinct, so it blends in with everything else that is indistinct. It's perfectly bland, just like everything else in the Village. That blandness is what gives the Village its character. I like that they picked up on a style that is only hinted at in the Village and is not prominent, so it doesn't look like they just copied some existing building. Civic and cultural buildings should be grand. Retail buildings with apartments on top, should blend in with everything else.

When all of these random styled buildings are combined together on the street, it just looks "right", but you can't determine what it is that is right, because no one building stands out. This building just continues that tradition.

 Each village building has ornaments that show civic pride. And are blended - homogonized - by age and scale. Do you seriously think this large bulky box - tarted up with cheap tricks -  won't stand out?

One person's ornaments that show civic pride are another's cheap tricks.  

ArchBroad said:

Here's some medicocrity for you.  http://ny.curbed.com/tags/architectural-mediocrity

 Funny building - which is, at least, less pretentious than Station House II. Maybe after a few more disasters Minno's repertory will progress to Legos

I can see Kings from my front room.  Their deliveries start early in the morning before they open to the public. It is almost eerie seeing the Tractor Trailers waiting out front during the dark hours of a winter night into morning

They  most certainly do make deliveries during the day light hours also.  Sometimes the personnel from the Supermarket come out into the street to help guide the truck drivers as they are backing into that narrow alley.   How they manage that feat is a tribute to their skills.

I think the logistics of placing that cafe / area of repose will prove troublesome

Sounds like Kings should move into a new purpose-built retail space with a properly designed delivery entrance.

Oh wait....never mind.  

That would be folly.

So, "Keep the Village a Village" means "Let the tractor trailer trucks in".  Such a village.

I think that the truck issue will be resolved.  Kings makes a lot of money from their little store in our village, after all.

No Hero...........I really cannot fathom how you come to some of your conclusions.   Please share with us your thoughts as to how any of the literature or statements of the Village/Green group voiced any statement about  letting the Tailor Trucks in.

For one thing they have been coming in since as long as Kings has been in place on Maplewood Ave.  The TC has voiced the opinion that Kings , as well as the Movie Theater and Post Office are lynch  pins of the Village.

What on earth are you talking about?

author said:

No Hero...........I really cannot fathom how you come to some of your conclusions.   Please share with us your thoughts as to how any of the literature or statements of the Village/Green group voiced any statement about  letting the Tailor Trucks in.

For one thing they have been coming in since as long as Kings has been in place on Maplewood Ave.  The TC has voiced the opinion that Kings , as well as the Movie Theater and Post Office are lynch  pins of the Village.

What on earth are you talking about?

 I was talking about the real world.  Thank goodness that the Maplewood Village Alliance was doing the same.

If Bank of America were to leave or abandon the drive through a great repurposing of the drive through access lane would be to make deliveries to the back of Kings.

Granted this isn't likely to happen.

I'm just looking at Google Maps and brainstorming better delivery options.

I always heard that the Kings deliveries were supposed to happen early in the morning and that whoever enforces that was just 'looking the other way' re the mid-day deliveries. Also, as someone mentioned, perhaps smaller delivery trucks could/should be used.  It is a colossal hassle when those trucks do their dance in the middle of the day there.  Fortunately I've only gotten caught by it a couple of times in the three decades I've lived here so I didn't think there were too many violations of the early morning rules. No??

To me, it shows Kings lack of wanting to work with the township if they refuse to use smaller delivery trucks. Our town, much unlike many of the neighboring towns, specifically moved our downtown off a major wide roadway, so we could have smaller retailers. If Kings is unwilling to adapt to the peculiarities of being in our quaint downtown, I'm sure there is another grocer who would relish moving in. I know several areas on the outskirts of the New York boroughs, that while semi-urban/suburban require their retailers to use small trucks since the big rigs are unable to make the turns required to get to their downtown areas. They adapt and still serve the community. There's no reason those big trucks need to be on Maplewood Avenue. Any metro-NYC area retailer knows this and adapts their prcocesses.

ETA: At the MVA meeting, it was noted that Kings declared they were unable to alter their delivery schedules to only occur in early morning hours. This is also horse$hit. If the MVA wanted to enforce early deliveries for grocery stores, they could. Kings would either adapt because they want the business or they would leave and we'd have a new organic grocer who only uses hybrid deliver trucks at off hours. Kings is not a sacred cow, IMHO. There would be another grocer easily wanting to take over that space.

Where did you get this.    The development of Maplewood Village in it's "off the highway" location occurred simply because that is where the train stop was.   As far as I know it had nothing to do with intentional development to attract small retailers.

ArchBroad said:. Our town, much unlike many of the neighboring towns, specifically moved our downtown off a major wide roadway, so we could have smaller retailers. 

ArchBroad said:

So many people here are afraid of change, it's amazing. This is not Southhampton. We should stop pretending that it is. "Standing out" is that behemoth parking garage in Millburn that is pretending to not be a parking garage. The PO project is the same height as many other buildings in town, and with the same cheap tricks that they all have.

ETA: 

I'd like to know what it is about all of these amazing buildings (individually) some people find so endearing? And what architectural qualities you'd like to see replicated on a new PO building. Would it have made everyone happier if they had picked up on that fake chalet style? It's like an encyclopedia of styles in the Village, with rarely any significant detail except on the bank, the theater and less than a handful of isolated other instances that one would need to look very, very hard to pinpoint. It's the conglomeration of all the mundane put together that give the Village its charm. The fact that the new building is not perfect, is going to be great. All of those existing buildings have oddities and problems. The new building will fit right in. 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6023/5979779956_1f44433202_b.jpg

http://media.nj.com/star-ledger/photo/2009/10/8096765-standard.jpg

https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6004/5982709409_dab91586c1_n.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Maplewood_NJ_village_Dec_2005.jpg

http://media.nj.com/star-ledger/photo/2009/10/8096764-standard.jpg

http://blog.goodhomesforgoodpeople.com/files/2012/02/halloween2b20112b002.jpg

Could not agree more. I find it amusing that the Vk-ers think the new building is a "slippery slope to mediocrity"when we already have a slew of buildings in town that fail to attain even that lofty standard. 

http://blog.goodhomesforgoodpeople.com/files/2012/02/halloween2b20112b002.jpg

These red balloons are flying unrealistically low!

(Snarky emoticon)

Great photos! Thanks for the perspective.

kings could swap buildings with Bank of America.