Is "White Fragility" What All This Nationalism Is About?

Whiteness is becoming less valuable

Michael Ignatieff, a historian and former Liberal Party leader in Canada, said that in much of the West, “what defined the political community” for many years “was the unstated premise that it was white.”
The formal rejection of racial discrimination in those societies has, by extension, constructed a new, broader national identity. The United States has a black president; London has a Muslim mayor of Pakistani descent.

But that broadening can, to some, feel like a painful loss, articulated in the demand voiced over and over at Trump rallies, pro-Brexit events and gatherings for populist parties throughout Europe: “I want my country back.”

The mantra is not all about bigotry. Rather, being part of a culture designed around people’s own community and customs is a constant background hum of reassurance, of belonging.

The loss of that comforting hum has accelerated a phenomenon that Robin DiAngelo, a lecturer and author, calls “white fragility” — the stress white people feel when they confront the knowledge that they are neither special nor the default; that whiteness is just a race like any other.

Fragility leads to feelings of insecurity, defensiveness, even threat. And it can trigger a backlash against those who are perceived as outsiders.

Even some conservative analysts who support a multiethnic “melting pot” national identity, such as the editor of National Review, Reihan Salam, worry that unassimilated immigrants could threaten core national values and cultural cohesion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/world/americas/brexit-donald-trump-whites.html?ref=todayspaper

This item feels most sound to me - not the change itself, but the pace of it:

"Social scientists, after crunching data from both sides of the Atlantic, have discovered something surprising: It’s not the amount of racial or ethnic diversity in a community that predicts white resentment and support of anti-immigrant policies, but the pace of change."

The Af Am president, the giant LGBTQ gains, trans-rights, Asian and South Asian immigration, Latino immigration, fears of Islam, etc.

This all started when you couldn't wear it after Labor Day. It's been downhill since then.

Then there's the problem of white identity....

"The whiteness taboo

For decades, the language of white identity has only existed in the context of white supremacy. When that became taboo, it left white identity politics without a vocabulary.

If you are a working-class white person and you fear that the new, cosmopolitan world will destroy or diminish an identity you cherish, you have no culturally acceptable way to articulate what you perceive as a crisis."

terp said:

This all started when you couldn't wear it after Labor Day. It's been downhill since then.

A bit was made of Hillary's wearing white at the last debate - a no no.

What is "White Identity"?

I have never gone to a White restaurant or ordered White take out food.

It's almost taboo to talk about Class in America so we talk about Race. Explain to me how the interests of a White assembly line worker are different from those of a Black assembly line worker?

How are the interests of a White office receptionist aligned with the interests of a White hedge fund manager?

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

I have never gone to a White restaurant or ordered White take out food.

Never heard of a 'po' boy'

you might want to talk to author about Cracker Barrel

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

I have never gone to a White restaurant or ordered White take out food.

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

I have never gone to a White restaurant or ordered White take out food.

you're missing out on some good eats

LOST said:

It's almost taboo to talk about Class in America so we talk about Race. Explain to me how the interests of a White assembly line worker are different from those of a Black assembly line worker?

How are the interests of a White office receptionist aligned with the interests of a White hedge fund manager?

Funny you should ask. At the outset of the Civil War, you might have asked why the average Southerner who didn't own slaves would have a common interest with wealthy slave owners. At that time, all it took was the specter of equality with Blacks to get the non-slave owning whites to fall in line.

BCC said:

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

I have never gone to a White restaurant or ordered White take out food.

Never heard of a 'po' boy'

Yes, but I doubt all the White folks I grew up around had ever heard of it. I consider it Southern not White.

tjohn said:

LOST said:

It's almost taboo to talk about Class in America so we talk about Race. Explain to me how the interests of a White assembly line worker are different from those of a Black assembly line worker?

How are the interests of a White office receptionist aligned with the interests of a White hedge fund manager?

Funny you should ask. At the outset of the Civil War, you might have asked why the average Southerner who didn't own slaves would have a common interest with wealthy slave owners. At that time, all it took was the specter of equality with Blacks to get the non-slave owning whites to fall in line.

I might have asked that as would a journalist actually living at the time and writing about that War by the name of Karl Marx.

ml1 said:

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

I have never gone to a White restaurant or ordered White take out food.

you're missing out on some good eats

The "whitest" food I know is Whitefish and Feta Cheese.

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

Here's a short answer: "Make America great again." Back in the day, even poor and/or ill-educated white folks could count on whiteness as a plus.

Tangentially, I also liked Friedman's words on very healthy manufacturing climate in the U.S. with 1/3 fewer workers. He says something like, "You're not being replaced by a Mexican. You're being replaced by a microchip."

GL2 said:

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

Here's a short answer: "Make America great again." Back in the day, even poor and/or ill-educated white folks could count on whiteness as a plus.

A plus in terms of being slightly better off than a Black person in the same position, but how much of a plus was that for some White semi-literate subsistence farmer in Appalachia?

.

LOST said:

BCC said:

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

I have never gone to a White restaurant or ordered White take out food.

Never heard of a 'po' boy'

Yes, but I doubt all the White folks I grew up around had ever heard of it. I consider it Southern not White.

It was introduced by Whites.

Most people we both grew up with think a lot of East European recipes are Jewish. They're not. They're frequently Polish, Russian, etc.

Now we can have a debate as to who gets the credit, the people who created it or the people who adopted it.

Or not.

LOST said:

GL2 said:

LOST said:

What is "White Identity"?

Here's a short answer: "Make America great again." Back in the day, even poor and/or ill-educated white folks could count on whiteness as a plus.

A plus in terms of being slightly better off than a Black person in the same position, but how much of a plus was that for some White semi-literate subsistence farmer in Appalachia?

That white semi-literate subsistence farmer could rely on the fact that he still lived in a country where the chances that his skin color could get him lynched for 'reckless eyeballing' or imprisoned for vagrancy and then leased out to a corporation as free labor, were slim.

In fact, if he just held on he'd be able to get loans and grow his meager business while Black farmers would be forced to sell their land or sue.

http://grist.org/food/what-happened-to-americas-black-farmers/

His whiteness didn't ensure his success as a farmer, but it certainly didn't guarantee his failure.

BCC said:

It was introduced by Whites.

Most people we both grew up with think a lot of East European recipes are Jewish. They're not. They're frequently Polish, Russian, etc.


Now we can have a debate as to who gets the credit, the people who created it or the people who adopted it.

Or not.

What does that have to do with it being "White" food?

flimbro said:

His whiteness didn't ensure his success as a farmer, but it certainly didn't guarantee his failure.

I agree that his "whiteness " didn't guarantee his failure, The system did or almost did. Of course racism was part of the system which guarnteed that he couldn't make common cause with Blacks to better all their conditions.

Not sure what the relevance is, but "Po Boy" is what we down south called those sandwiches known as "Subs" around here.

"White" is a class. Class isn't just about straightforward economics, it's about social hierarchies, and in the U.S., "white" has meant, broadly, a class guarantee with a certain floor, with anyone not "white" having that floor as their social ceiling.

It's a "crisis" for white identity in that this is starting to unravel. If I were optimistic, I'd say good riddance -- let's destroy whiteness once and for all and go back to being Irish- Lithuanian-, German- etc, embracing our various heritages (broadly and narrowly as we like, selectively and inconsistently as we like) and dumping the whole concept of "white." Put the pluribus back in e pluribus unum.

That's not likely any time soon, though, given that "whiteness" is a foundational concept to our country. "White" is a pretty resilient concept. It's erasure is an ongoing social revolution that I'd argue dwarfs, in it's ambition and implication, the political revolution of 1776.

PVW said:

If I were optimistic, I'd say good riddance -- let's destroy whiteness once and for all and go back to being Irish- Lithuanian-, German- etc, embracing our various heritages (broadly and narrowly as we like, selectively and inconsistently as we like) and dumping the whole concept of "white." Put the pluribus back in e pluribus unum.

But what if you are part Italian, Irish, Scottish, German, and Austrian? And my kids add Polish and Czech? We are so much that we are nothing. Sure we celebrate St. Patrick's day, but doesn't everyone?

noseygirl99 said:

PVW said:

If I were optimistic, I'd say good riddance -- let's destroy whiteness once and for all and go back to being Irish- Lithuanian-, German- etc, embracing our various heritages (broadly and narrowly as we like, selectively and inconsistently as we like) and dumping the whole concept of "white." Put the pluribus back in e pluribus unum.

But what if you are part Italian, Irish, Scottish, German, and Austrian? And my kids add Polish and Czech? We are so much that we are nothing. Sure we celebrate St. Patrick's day, but doesn't everyone?

No, being a lot of everything is the opposite of being "nothing." We focus (justifiably) on the way "whiteness" victimizes people who get categorized as not being "white," but there's a cost to the beneficiaries of whiteness too. To think of yourself as white you have to give up a lot of identity, downplaying or erasing much of your heritage.

Hierarchies say "OR." You are white OR not. Pluralism says "AND." You are Italian AND Scottish AND German (and probably a lot of other things as well).

"Whiteness" denies all that complexity, insisting that there is such a thing as pure identities, and turns "having so much" into "being nothing." I'd argue this is a real cost, leaving even those of us who think ourselves "white" the poorer for it.

What would be the response to GL2's question if Black replaced White?

Do White Lives Matter?

I think the label "African American" is more accurate -- it describes their ancestry without the skin color. Africa is a multi colored continent after all.

I would have to specifically label myself European American due to my German/Irish origins.

Folks from Asia are labeled Asian Americans(often specific to their country of origin) perhaps Pan Asian would be preferrred?

If Whites need to feel validated in America perhaps is it because they feel lost in this bifurcated America?

Might we not relabel ourselves as citizens of the United States of America by birth or by naturalization?

mtierney said:
If Whites need to feel validated in America perhaps is it because they feel lost in this bifurcated America?

Might we not relabel ourselves as citizens of the United States of America by birth or by naturalization?

Congratulations. You've validated Mr. GL2's question that is the title of this thread.

If some white people (however one defines that) feel bothered by the fact that their "kind" isn't as dominant as they would like, that's a problem.

One fact that often gets lost in these discussions is that, historically, there have always been "slaves" in Western culture, even if we called some of them indentured servants sold to and between property owners in the New World. But white servants owned by contract were eventually able to shed this status by virtue of their skin color. Irish, Italians, etc. were able to "evolve" into white society.

GL2 said:

Then there's the problem of white identity....

"The whiteness taboo

For decades, the language of white identity has only existed in the context of white supremacy. When that became taboo, it left white identity politics without a vocabulary.

If you are a working-class white person and you fear that the new, cosmopolitan world will destroy or diminish an identity you cherish, you have no culturally acceptable way to articulate what you perceive as a crisis."

terp said:

This all started when you couldn't wear it after Labor Day. It's been downhill since then.

A bit was made of Hillary's wearing white at the last debate - a no no.

That was winter white and it is allowed after Labor Day as it is typically worn in colder months

the white prohibition was about wearing white shoes after Labor Day.

Back in that day, (my day) this was a totally unacceptable fashion error!

Wearing "winter white" (a much softer color) in clothing was stylish and correct.

HRC's suit was refrigerator white, not winter white.