Influx of Homeless Individuals

yahooyahoo said:

I have noticed more unhoused people in the general area, but I've noticed this everywhere I go.  This is especially evident in large cities.  I see it as part of a much larger problem, and not specific to Maplewood or South Orange.

Those of us who live in warmer climates can verify that it's a large and growing problem. 

when did the homeless become the unhoused, and what's the rationale for the change?

drummerboy said:

when did the homeless become the unhoused, and what's the rationale for the change?

It’s a recent change and it hasn’t really been adopted outside of advocacy groups.  It’s a term which carries less stigma, in my opinion. 

mrincredible said:

drummerboy said:

when did the homeless become the unhoused, and what's the rationale for the change?

It’s a recent change and it hasn’t really been adopted outside of advocacy groups.  It’s a term which carries less stigma, in my opinion. 

An informative article:

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/homeless-unhoused

GoSlugs said:

In who’s backyard should the pantry be?

The backyard of the person(s) who thought it was a good idea to place a shed full of food there in the first place!

mrincredible said:

It sounds like you’re being diplomatic. Do you mean there are fights?  Is there an issue with noise?  I can see that being a problem. 

Can anyone explain the history of that community pantry?  Was it a COVID-19 idea to help get food to people who might otherwise have no place to go?  If so, maybe it’s time to revisit whether it should still be there. Are the donations starting to dwindle now that our collective sense of a community crisis is dwindling as well?

A friend of mine used to work at a charitable food pantry. They are challenging to say the least, even when it’s inside and attended. People who are seeking help can get tense when the supplies are limited. I have to imagine that an unattended food distribution spot that relies on community goodwill could be a spot for tensions to flare. 

There are fights there almost every other week. I drive by daily as it is my route to and from work. There is almost always something going on. It's total chaos as one person usually tries to grab everything while the next person impatiently waits very close behind for their turn to load up their cars with free food. Sometimes there will be a police officer standing a few feet away watching but not very often. 

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

And what harm are they causing?

Well since you asked, They are beginning to harass the younger girls(teens) who often walk to the cupcake place as well as the other shops along the strip. One of them, after he couldn't get their name and conversation then began to "follow" them by making it seem he was all of a sudden going their way. He made them feel extremely uncomfortable and frightened. They brushed it off only to see him in the same spot the very next day and that is where the fright came from. Wait until the robbing and the raping starts. It is not very far behind

max_weisenfeld said:

The issue here seems to be some people are uncomfortable seeing the unhoused. There's no nuance here. It IS unpleasant to be reminded that the unhoused exist, and that their troubles are often complex and costly to address. But to remove a small aid to those in need because we don't want to see them? That solves nothing.

Don't put words in the mouths of others. I am well aware that homeless people exist and have since the beginning of time, but it is one thing to walk past them in the city while on lunch break but to see them in my hometown free to roam, you are out of your mind if you think it's just not wanting to "see" them. It's nasty and unsafe as many of them have mental health issues. I guess when they start raping and robbing, the solution would be to just sleep with them and kindly hand over your belongings because they deserve it.

They also bring down the neighborhood's value.  

Tall_Mocha said:

There are fights there almost every other week. I drive by daily as it is my route to and from work. There is almost always something going on. It's total chaos as one person usually tries to grab everything while the next person impatiently waits very close behind for their turn to load up their cars with free food. Sometimes there will be a police officer standing a few feet away watching but not very often. 

 

not to mention the bums hanging around and on the benches yelling out to people. It’s a freak show. 
As usual you try to do something good and then the bums take it over. I think it should be placed in front of police headquarters. 

Tall_Mocha:  The Community Fridge is overseen by the Maplewood Department of Community Services.  I would suggest sharing your observations and concerns with them. That way, you may be able to get those concerns addressed by someone in a position to take such positive action as may be needed.

Mr Mocha has a problem ... "Free to roam"??? That's beyond insensitive and right into hateful. Mocha's problem is Mocha's problem, and there are always that sort of people around. Quite honestly, Mocha's attitude and behavior is much more disruptive to community than 100 homeless people on Springfield Ave.

for 10 years, I worked with homeless people in downtown Newark - food & clothing pantry, plus drop in center with hot meals. Our effort was different from others bc we treated people kindly, fully human. As a result, we had almost no trouble from the people we serve.

in recent years, I've been food insecure, relying on food pantries most recently while my SNAP was being recertified. I used OLS and a great place in Summit. The care and non-judgemental compassion were amazing.

I used the Springfield Ave Food Shed as a give and take. Items I received from pantries that I could not use, I dropped off there, exchanging for items more useful in my circumstance. I was there about once a week, and drove by often to see what they have. NO ISSUES EVER. No fights , no problems.

In fact, every time I was there and someone else was, too, it was a friendly and positive experience. Whether the other was giving or taking, friendliness ruled

joan_crystal said:

Tall_Mocha:  The Community Fridge is overseen by the Maplewood Department of Community Services.  I would suggest sharing your observations and concerns with them. That way, you may be able to get those concerns addressed by someone in a position to take such positive action as may be needed.

This is the most useful thing anyone has posted on this thread. 

Turning on each other in this situation isn’t particularly helpful, in my opinion.  Clearly different people have different experiences around the community fridge/cupboard. I can believe that there are people who would come and try to take as much stuff as they can from an unsupervised food resource, whether to keep for themselves or share or (ugh) maybe sell.  And I could see this behavior giving rise to conflict. I’m also not surprised that at other times the scene would be peaceful and congenial. 

I’m reminded of the scene in “It’s A Wonderful Life” during the bank run. George and Mary offer up their savings to tide people over during a financial crisis. One jackass customer in particular decides he needs ALL of his money which represents about 10% of the total funds available for several dozen people. Some people are just conditioned to get as much as they can for themselves without regard for the needs of others, especially in times of crisis or scarcity. How many people bought six months of toilet paper in April of 2020, for instance?

Although the overall economy seems to be pretty good, the pressure on lower-income families is increasing. So stress around an unsupervised food source is surely going to increase as well. I think it’s important to remember that for the most part, the people coming to the Community Fridge are facing challenges that most of us are unfamiliar with. So some compassion is in order. And the question arises as to whether the Community Fridge is actually exacerbating the problem or if it’s because of other factors. 

But I wouldn’t dismiss legitimate concerns by people who live in the area. So getting back to Joan’s post, reaching out to the appropriate civic officials seems like the best thing to do. 

The problem is that one complaining voice can derail a good thing.

Also ... I don't think it's "ugh" for people in need to sell food they pick up from the shed ... We had to reflect on that when I worked in Newark. People gotta do what they gotta do to survive.

No excuse for greedy, though, whether it's po' folk at the food shed or people of means taking advantage there

You know, if someone wants to access the pantry, and move on that’d be great. When you have bums sitting on the benches for hours, arguing among themselves, then it’s a problem. I’m quite sure if this pantry was smack down in front of the old bank building in maplewood avenue, or better yet, in front of town hall, there would be much more people commenting about it the same way tall mocha is. When the Springfield avenue partnership started to upgrade the avenue and installed lights and benches, it was supposed to attract people living in maplewood to walk around more, and stimulate the local businesses. But it didn’t quite work out that way because people just don’t feel safe doing that. Now they put a food pantry, who did they think was going to use it? The people who were going to shakti yoga? Or Gigi cupcakes? Eventually they will have to stop this. 
There are lots of places in Newark and Irvington and East orange where the lines are going down the block with people waiting to pick up boxes of assorted food. Then you have the ones in the Mercedes pulling up and loading multiple boxes. The homeless people know exactly where to go to get food. 

"bums"??? Surely we can do better than that. Try "people," to at least identify us as human

Vdfam, I truly understand your sentiment here. I do feel, however, that Mr Incredible may have been using the phrase ‘bums on seats’ as in ‘seated people’/‘bottoms on benches’/‘captive audience’ etc. Not necessarily disparaging. 
Ive heard there will be thunderstorms tonight, hope you’ll be sheltered & dry. 

vdfam said:

"bums"??? Surely we can do better than that. Try "people," to at least identify us as human

Hey now. I never said “bums”. That was someone else. 

If you’re sitting in that back rest of the bench and using foul language and looking like you’re in need of a shower you’re a bum. 

Jaytee said:

If you’re sitting in that back rest of the bench and using foul language and looking like you’re in need of a shower you’re a bum. 

STFU

I do deeply and sincerely apologise. *hanging my head* I thought I reread the post.  Way upthread I see a ‘bums’ post by Jaytee.

TallMocha’s comment keeps making me smile:  don’t you have CEO Sleepout over there? CEOs sleep rough for a couple of nights, to experience 24+hours unhoused, unwashed and with nothing they can rely on. (Doing this, they raise $$$ and awareness for St Vincent de Paul charities for the unhoused, unwell, vulnerable etc) it’s an annual event here, massive fundraiser. 

mrincredible said:

Hey now. I never said “bums”. That was someone else. 

it’s always interesting to see how many fresh starts begin after Sleepouts,  how many new beds/kitchens become available. 

joanne said:

it’s always interesting to see how many fresh starts begin after Sleepouts,  how many new beds/kitchens become available. 

I have never heard of anything like that in the US. It sounds wonderful but I can’t see any American business executive participating in such an event. 

About the misreading of posts, no worries! It happens and I was just setting the record straight. I’m trying hard to see this issue from different perspectives. It’s a sticky wicket. I have compassion for unhoused people and I understand many of them have difficult mental health or substance abuse problems. But I also am trying to empathize with residents who are affected by the presence of what appear to be mentally unstable people in their neighborhood. 

It sounds like the people in question are in public spaces, so they have a right to be there. They can’t be forced into public housing, even if it was available. And there’s a high bar for involuntarily institutionalizing someone with mental illness. I was trying to do some quick research on the subject. A hospital can hold someone for 3 days involuntarily for mental health reasons. Longer commitment requires that someone be deemed a danger to themselves, others or property. So if someone is sitting on a public bench and loudly swearing at people, they probably wouldn’t be considered a danger. 

The other option would be to arrest them and throw them into the criminal justice system. There are laws which could be brought into play for things like loitering, or disturbing the peace.

So someone who is mentally ill, who refuses voluntary treatment, can easily end up incarcerated. I wish our nation put more resources into mental health treatment. It would be great if we had a team of highly trained social workers who could be deployed to work with people who are unhoused because of mental health and addiction struggles. I honestly don’t think it would cost that much in the grand scheme of our budget. 

Dennis_Seelbach said:

STFU

fuh cough Dennis… really. 

mrincredible, I like your perspective. Everything you mention is incredibly (lol) difficult. Public housing is so hard to get into. If you're a man without children even shelter space is limited ... And dangerous. Many of the people I served in Newark felt safer on the ground.

To be clear, everyone is responsible for their behavior, regardless of circumstance. Capabilities vary, of course, which needs to mix in. 

What I object to is the attitude of many posts in this thread toward the human beings involved. I also believe the Food Shed is a wonderful resource and something an inclusive (most of the time) community should value.

If we end up with a situation where people feel like they have to make a choice between compassion and safety of their neighborhood, it won't end up well for homeless people.  That is why the concerns raised by Tall_Mocha need to be addressed.

mrincredible said:

I have never heard of anything like that in the US. It sounds wonderful but I can’t see any American business executive participating in such an event. 

I believe Brian Cashman, the Yankees GM, does this annually.

This thread reminds me of the time I served on a multi agency task force addressing homeless people in downtown Newark - police, city hall, non profit, faith. I suggested we begin by understanding that the primary people affected and struggling are the people who are homeless, far above the people who don't want to see it.

I said this bc the Cory Booker administration directed the NPD to roust homeless - really anyone looking poor or local - away from the Prudential Center when it first opened.

I liked the idea above of placing the pantry near the police station.  It would still be readily available (or isn't there a nearby bus line?), but people might be on their best/better behavior? (but i'm a total outsider at this point - by 900 miles)

jaytee said: "Then you have the ones in the Mercedes pulling up and loading multiple boxes"

If you've observed this, it certainly bears looking into.  I'll just say that people sometimes pick up multiple boxes to deliver to members of their congregation or others who don't drive or can't handle the weight.  I've done it myself as a volunteer, though not in a Mercedes.

mjc said:

I liked the idea above of placing the pantry near the police station.  It would still be readily available (or isn't there a nearby bus line?), but people might be on their best/better behavior? (but i'm a total outsider at this point - by 900 miles)

Years ago, when it was decided that the then police station was too small to meet current needs, there was considerable pressure to relocate the police station to SA near the Irvington border.  Reasoning was that this would increase the police presence in that part of town.  What the advocates for that move did not realize was that the police officers on duty would all be out in their patrol cars.  It really didn't matter where the police station was located from an enforcement point of view.  Same would go for moving the community fridge to a location near the police station. Relocating the Community fridge there does not lead to increased police presence at the site.  Going back to Tall_Mocha's above objections, there could be added resistance to such a move given that the police station is adjacent to the skatepark and the playground in Maplecrest Park and close to the Hilton Branch Library which is exclusively a children's library at this time.  

I live around the corner from the pantry. It ain't no big deal. Never seen a fight or a hassle there and I walk or run by frequently. Happy to help people who need help.

tjohn said:

If we end up with a situation where people feel like they have to make a choice between compassion and safety of their neighborhood, it won't end up well for homeless people.  That is why the concerns raised by Tall_Mocha need to be addressed.

I don’t think that it is possible to address some of TM’s concerns without creating homeless reservations in poor communities. Economic apartheid is not the answer.