I hope everyone is taking notes
Trump is trying to be a tyrant.
terp, do you not not understand that?
angelak said:
terp said:
In addition, I think the west is on very precarious financial footing.
These things have the potential go to some scary places. IMO of course.
More to worry about.
Some might argue that precarious footing would have been a looming reality no matter who took office. And they'd likely be right.
drummerboy said:
you just don't get it.
at all.
He is saying things that is more typical of despots than American presidents. And he's saying it to huge following of people that with every lie, he divides them from people who choose reality over fantasy.
This is a very, very bad thing.
I give up.
ctrzaska said:
drummerboy said:
getting "knocked on the nose"?
That's what you call this?
exactly what kind of input do you get? Or is your problem on the processing side?
ctrzaska said:
Who gives a crap whether it takes the press getting knocked on the nose for them to finally react? Why in hell would that matter one whit? You're concerned more about their bruised nose than the net effect once they've put some ice on it?? How very odd.
Has he quashed them? Shut them down? Reverted us to surreptitious pamphlets printed privately and handed out in secret in the back rooms of taverns? No? Then they got knocked on the nose. They still report on and publish what they want to, when they want to, and how they want to. Just now they're a hell of a lot more critical and hopefully a bit more aware not put out out schlock that folks digest as easily as their corn flakes every morning. But I'm sure they appreciate your grave concern for having taken a left from Trump. They'll live.
Trump supporters don't frighten me. And they don't frighten the press either. They seem to leave you paralyzed with fear and frustration, however, while you cling to your version of reality. Their version of reality currently has the office and a hell of a lot more. It's your job to do something about it, not theirs. But you're bemoaning Trump for not helping the situation? Seriously?
You won't even speak to these folks let alone debate or try to understand them, and have written off the lot as unintelligent, racist, xenophobic, misogynistic drones, and have diametrically separated yourself and your moral high ground from Trump and them. And NOW you're worried that Trump is furthering a divide? The divide you rest so comfortably in? That's rich.
Your thinking just generally leaves me boggled.
Do you understand that Trump is trying to be a strongman? That he is following the route that pretty much every historian has ever mapped out as being the road to tyranny?
Do you understand that this is America and not Russia? That an American strongman has to do it differently here than there? That he can't shut down the media here, because there is no mechanism to do so? So what does he do instead? (the little he can shut down - through the NEA and PBS , he has wasted no time in threatening to pull all funding from.)He makes the media MEANINGLESS by not caring about what they say.
ISIS is the only other enemy he has ever named. You figure it out.
They yell back "TELL THE TRUTH, TELL THE TRUTH"
He put the media in pens at his campaign rallies.
He and his followers get their information from other sources than you and me - and those sources lie to their audiences as much as he lies to us.
He confidently lies to us, every damn day, because he doesn't care what you or I or the MSM thinks about those lies. All he wants to is give his followers his false information, and by marginalizing the MSM, hopes that he'll start peeling more and more people from the MSM to the alternative, lying conservative media.
Explain to me how it's "OK" or safe to have a society where the MSM is mistrusted, and a large part of the country, Trumpsters get all of their media from Fox and Hannity and Limbaugh and freaking Infowars (Infowars - we have a President that believes Infowars- do you understand how effed up that is?) and who the hell knows who else?
The media divergence has been a long time coming - running under the surface largely. But now we have a Steve Bannon in the White House, who was a professional propagandist, with massive executive power, directing media outreach.
And he said the media should shut up. In public. The President's right hand man. The Prez and his main advisor have told us the Press - the only profession given an exalted position in the Constitution - is sh!t.
It's not just rhetoric. Not just meaningless words. They are actively trying to destroy the traditional media.
What exactly does it take for you to be concerned about this?
You won't even speak to these folks let alone debate or try to
understand them, and have written off the lot as unintelligent, racist,
xenophobic, misogynistic drones, and have diametrically separated
yourself and your moral high ground from Trump and them. And NOW you're
worried that Trump is furthering a divide? The divide you rest so
comfortably in? That's rich.
Is kinda so dumb that it's hard to respond to. I have been diametrically "separated" from the Republican voter my whole life.
I guarantee you that I have spent a lot more energy trying to understand the Trump/Republican voter than you have. Remember, as little as a few months before the election, you told us Trump had absolutely no chance in hell of winning.
At the same time, I was posting about the imminent danger of a possible complete takeover of Washington by Republicans.
So we should listen to you and not me? Because I don't understand them? And what, you do?
You didn't then, and you don't now.
So, please. The only thing I've given up on is to try to convince them to change. Because that's not an effective way to try to get votes. And I've explained why, in detail, without calling them names, a dozen times.
And I've asked, more than a dozen times, of you and others, how we're supposed to talk to them and reach them.
Response - crickets.
Oh yeah, you all said we need to be nice to them because they've been insulted. That's the ticket.
Which is the dumbest piece of conventional wisdom to come out of this election.
ctrzaska said:
drummerboy said:
you just don't get it.
at all.
He is saying things that is more typical of despots than American presidents. And he's saying it to huge following of people that with every lie, he divides them from people who choose reality over fantasy.
This is a very, very bad thing.
I give up.
ctrzaska said:
drummerboy said:
getting "knocked on the nose"?
That's what you call this?
exactly what kind of input do you get? Or is your problem on the processing side?
ctrzaska said:
Who gives a crap whether it takes the press getting knocked on the nose for them to finally react? Why in hell would that matter one whit? You're concerned more about their bruised nose than the net effect once they've put some ice on it?? How very odd.
Has he quashed them? Shut them down? Reverted us to surreptitious pamphlets printed privately and handed out in secret in the back rooms of taverns? No? Then they got knocked on the nose. They still report on and publish what they want to, when they want to, and how they want to. Just now they're a hell of a lot more critical and hopefully a bit more aware not put out out schlock that folks digest as easily as their corn flakes every morning. But I'm sure they appreciate your grave concern for having taken a left from Trump. They'll live.
Trump supporters don't frighten me. And they don't frighten the press either. They seem to leave you paralyzed with fear and frustration, however, while you cling to your version of reality. Their version of reality currently has the office and a hell of a lot more. It's your job to do something about it, not theirs. But you're bemoaning Trump for not helping the situation? Seriously?
You won't even speak to these folks let alone debate or try to understand them, and have written off the lot as unintelligent, racist, xenophobic, misogynistic drones, and have diametrically separated yourself and your moral high ground from Trump and them. And NOW you're worried that Trump is furthering a divide? The divide you rest so comfortably in? That's rich.
I'd argue up to this point, it has literally nothing to do with him.
ctrzaska said:
angelak said:
terp said:
In addition, I think the west is on very precarious financial footing.
These things have the potential go to some scary places. IMO of course.
More to worry about.
Some might argue that precarious footing would have been a looming reality no matter who took office. And they'd likely be right.
why is the west on "precarious financial footing" exactly?
You've been saying this for many years you know. I remember you talking about the dreaded inflation to be caused by quantitative easing, in which we discovered your word for inflation doesn't comport with what every one else thinks it is. That makes for difficult conversations.
In a nutshell. The dip in debt growth prior to 2010 was when everyone you respect was saying we were in danger of having no economy.
terp -- what does TCMDO stand for? Also, if the red graph is debt growth (TCMDO, Right), what does the blue graph signify (TCMDO, Left)? The pink part I've highlighted -- that's the concern?
sorry.. You're telling us what now?
terp said:
In a nutshell. The dip in debt growth prior to 2010 was when everyone you respect was saying we were in danger of having no economy.
db -- what's your objection to Ben Shapiro as a source? I read this interview and he seems pretty reasonable to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html
drummerboy said:
yen. Ben Shapiro. Poor source.
terp said:
I'm not a big Bannon fan. I listen to someone that used to work for him. It's a guy named Ben Shapiro. He hates Bannon. But, he doesn't think Bannon is what people say about him. However, according to Shapiro Bannon is a self-serving opportunist that will cater to anyone willing to give him more power.
So, its certainly something to be concerned about. I don't think he will bring down the State. But hey. I've been wrong before.
angelak said:
If you are willing to talk, the other thing that really alarms me is Steve Bannon. To me, it feels like what I'm seeing is his plan to bring down the State being perfectly executed. I realize that might sound a bit "out there", but I feel like there is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction. And I am not a hysterical person. Pretty analytical and straightshooting.
I also found this very interesting:
https://amp.businessinsider.com/sam-altman-interview-trump-supporters-2017-2
terp said:
This is a good frame of reference to where the Mainstream Press is coming from. Interestingly real journalists were subjected more to the Espionage act than any other in history.
Perhaps someone has already mentioned this but I believe a number of editors were actually sent to jail under the Alien and Sedition Acts.
I've read him off and on for many years. He just strikes me as a garden variety conservative who has little interesting to say.
When I see his name, I just think that it's not worth my time to read him.
Maybe he does, but I wrote him off as minor, uninteresting figure years ago.
angelak said:
db -- what's your objection to Ben Shapiro as a source? I read this interview and he seems pretty reasonable to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html
drummerboy said:
yen. Ben Shapiro. Poor source.
terp said:
I'm not a big Bannon fan. I listen to someone that used to work for him. It's a guy named Ben Shapiro. He hates Bannon. But, he doesn't think Bannon is what people say about him. However, according to Shapiro Bannon is a self-serving opportunist that will cater to anyone willing to give him more power.
So, its certainly something to be concerned about. I don't think he will bring down the State. But hey. I've been wrong before.
angelak said:
If you are willing to talk, the other thing that really alarms me is Steve Bannon. To me, it feels like what I'm seeing is his plan to bring down the State being perfectly executed. I realize that might sound a bit "out there", but I feel like there is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction. And I am not a hysterical person. Pretty analytical and straightshooting.
You should read that interview. Also, watch the Bannon/Priebus CPAC interview today.
I watched part of The Odd Couple show. Can't stomach too much at one time.
angelak said:
You should read that interview. Also, watch the Bannon/Priebus CPAC interview today.
yen. Ben Shapiro. Poor source.