Thankfully, the nation has learned from past disasters--Andrew, Katrina, Sandy, etc etc -- and came together to offer  help - not immediately begin to play the political blame game.

Programs were put in place after Katrina to help nursing homes and assisted living facilities better plan for and manage evacuations after a disaster. Trump is in the process of cutting funding for these programs. When is the right time to discuss?

If you wish to contribute to the relief efforts may I suggest the Islamic Society of Greater Houston.

https://isgh.org/harvey/

From CNN:

In recent years, Congress has faced unprecedented partisan divides over Washington's role in meeting those costs. In 2005, Vice President Mike Pence, then a Republican congressman from Indiana, led an effort by House conservatives to offset any post-Katrina aid with offsetting budget cuts in other programs, including highway projects and the new Medicare prescription drug benefit. "We simply can't allow a catastrophe of nature to become a catastrophe of debt for our children and grandchildren," Pence said at the time.
Even more partisan -- and regional -- conflict flared after Sandy slammed into New York and New Jersey just before the 2012 presidential election. That storm precipitated a succession of confrontations between conservative Republicans in both chambers against a coalition of Republicans from the region and Democrats.


How Harvey compares to other major hurricanes

In those debates, Mick Mulvaney, now director of the Office of Management and Budget and then a Republican congressman from South Carolina, echoed Pence during Katrina by proposing legislation to offset Sandy aid with across-the-board reductions in domestic programs. That amendment failed, but over two-thirds of House Republicans voted for it, including an array of prominent Texans still in Congress. That list of supporters included Representatives Kevin Brady (now chair of the House Ways and Means Committee); Jeb Hensarling (now chair of the House Financial Services Committee) and Pete Sessions. Also voting for Mulvaney's legislation was Paul Ryan, now the House Speaker.
Eventually the vast majority of Republicans in both chambers -- 179 in the House and 36 in the Senate -- voted against the final $50 billion federal aid package for Sandy, arguing that the bill was bloated with extraneous projects. The Republican opponents included both of Texas' senators -- John Cornyn and Ted Cruz -- and a lengthy list of Texas House Republicans, including Brady and Hensarling.

It's clear that the GOP was politicizing disaster aid in past years.  The "offsets" they wanted (trying to hold needed aid hostage) always seem to be in programs that they want to cut anyway.  

LOST said:

From CNN:

In recent years, Congress has faced unprecedented partisan divides over Washington's role in meeting those costs. In 2005, Vice President Mike Pence, then a Republican congressman from Indiana, led an effort by House conservatives to offset any post-Katrina aid with offsetting budget cuts in other programs, including highway projects and the new Medicare prescription drug benefit. "We simply can't allow a catastrophe of nature to become a catastrophe of debt for our children and grandchildren," Pence said at the time.
Even more partisan -- and regional -- conflict flared after Sandy slammed into New York and New Jersey just before the 2012 presidential election. That storm precipitated a succession of confrontations between conservative Republicans in both chambers against a coalition of Republicans from the region and Democrats.


How Harvey compares to other major hurricanes

In those debates, Mick Mulvaney, now director of the Office of Management and Budget and then a Republican congressman from South Carolina, echoed Pence during Katrina by proposing legislation to offset Sandy aid with across-the-board reductions in domestic programs. That amendment failed, but over two-thirds of House Republicans voted for it, including an array of prominent Texans still in Congress. That list of supporters included Representatives Kevin Brady (now chair of the House Ways and Means Committee); Jeb Hensarling (now chair of the House Financial Services Committee) and Pete Sessions. Also voting for Mulvaney's legislation was Paul Ryan, now the House Speaker.
Eventually the vast majority of Republicans in both chambers -- 179 in the House and 36 in the Senate -- voted against the final $50 billion federal aid package for Sandy, arguing that the bill was bloated with extraneous projects. The Republican opponents included both of Texas' senators -- John Cornyn and Ted Cruz -- and a lengthy list of Texas House Republicans, including Brady and Hensarling.

who let the gate open?

@mtierney, I don't like the thread title, either, for the same reason as you, but if you're missing the point, you're not paying attention. Cruz and Cornyn want federal aid. They deserve it. We wanted it for Sandy. We deserved it. They didn't want us to have it. If you think it's bad to be angry at them for that, tell us why. We are NOT begrudging Texas its deserved aid. Republicans did begrudge us. Defend that.

While Sandy aid was eventually passed, it was somewhat reduced and the delay had real impact on real people. I think Congress should come back into session tomorrow to pass Harvey aid. But attention needs to be drawn to those who delayed and voted against Sandy aid with the goal of hoisting those individuals by one's own petard.

if I remember the New Orleans disaster, both the state and local government agencies were negligent and/or corrupt in assessing what had to be done. School buses were parked on dry ground and not called on to transport citizens to safe areas. That infamous arena had no provisions for the population. The state's National Guard was not called out until days later. Everything that could go wrong did.

POTUS is the chief executive and the blame lands on his desk -- fairly or not.

Rescue operations thus far seem to be working -- hundreds of volunteers have aided the efforts. This time, pets are rescued along with their owners, lessening the pain and loss for displaced families.

The response to this storm will be evaluated over the weeks and months head. 

Just FYI ... residents of Houston are known as Houstonians ... not Houstonites.  (I am a native Houstonian, so I need to say this.)

mtierney said:

who let the gate open?

What does this question mean?

@mtierney, agreed.

Taken from a friends FB post:

'The only people in Texas who "deserved" to suffer from Harvey are the two ******* politicians who were out of harm's way, Cruz and Cornyn.  No one else. It's not karma, it's not God's judgment. '

Of course, you avoided Tom's question (as always), which was about Sandy aid, not Katrina.

mtierney said:

if I remember the New Orleans disaster, both the state and local government agencies were negligent and/or corrupt in assessing what had to be done. School buses were parked on dry ground and not called on to transport citizens to safe areas. That infamous arena had no provisions for the population. The state's National Guard was not called out until days later. Everything that could go wrong did.

POTUS is the chief executive and the blame lands on his desk -- fairly or not.

Rescue operations thus far seem to be working -- hundreds of volunteers have aided the efforts. This time, pets are rescued along with their owners, lessening the pain and loss for displaced families.

The response to this storm will be evaluated over the weeks and months head. 

ridski said:

Taken from a friends FB post:

'The only people in Texas who "deserved" to suffer from Harvey are the two ******* politicians who were out of harm's way, Cruz and Cornyn.  No one else. It's not karma, it's not God's judgment. '

Your friend omitted a number of people involved in state government, including the governor who called a special session to pass a bathroom bill as if the state had nothing better to worry about.

kthnry said:

ridski said:

Taken from a friends FB post:

'The only people in Texas who "deserved" to suffer from Harvey are the two ******* politicians who were out of harm's way, Cruz and Cornyn.  No one else. It's not karma, it's not God's judgment. '

Your friend omitted a number of people involved in state government, including the governor who called a special session to pass a bathroom bill as if the state had nothing better to worry about.

As well as local leaders who failed to plan for this inevitable event.

Hell and High Water

Houston is the fourth-largest city in the country. It's home to the nation's largest refining and petrochemical complex, where billions of gallons of oil and dangerous chemicals are stored. And it's a sitting duck for the next big hurricane. Learn why Texas isn't ready.

by Neena Satija for The Texas Tribune and Reveal; Kiah Collier for The Texas Tribune; and Al Shaw and Jeff Larson for ProPublica, March 3, 2016

kthnry said:

kthnry said:

ridski said:

Taken from a friends FB post:

'The only people in Texas who "deserved" to suffer from Harvey are the two ******* politicians who were out of harm's way, Cruz and Cornyn.  No one else. It's not karma, it's not God's judgment. '

Your friend omitted a number of people involved in state government, including the governor who called a special session to pass a bathroom bill as if the state had nothing better to worry about.

As well as local leaders who failed to plan for this inevitable event.

Local leaders? Do we have any leaders that plan and build for inevitable exceptional events? How much planning is done in NYC? What would happen to lower Manhattan and NYC neighborhoods adjacent to rivers should there be a 12ft tidal surge? What about 50 in of rain?

Lack of planning is endemic here. The Dutch, after their 1953 North Sea flood, planned and built (Delta Works). The Brits planned and fixed (Thames Barrier).

What do we do? We built aircraft carriers, fighter planes, etc. That's our priority. Anything else is left to prayer.

Now that I re-read this article, it's interesting to see that everyone's concern was that a hurricane would push a giant storm surge up the Houston Ship Channel and flood the region. Even if massively expensive coastal barriers had been built, they would have been ineffective in this situation, where all the water fell from the sky.

kthnry said:

Now that I re-read this article, it's interesting to see that everyone's concern was that a hurricane would push a giant storm surge up the Houston Ship Channel and flood the region. Even if massively expensive coastal barriers had been built, they would have been ineffective in this situation, where all the water fell from the sky.

In Holland part of the Delta Works was to build up dykes, sluices, drainage ditches and pumping stations for prevent river and rain flooding.

It was a whole package, not just coastal barriers.

Criticize all you want but no one could have predicted 50 inches of rain.  In recorded history there has never been that much rainfall in one  place in the continental United States.   Many areas that flooded were not in flood zones, not 100 year zones, not 500 year zones.    Even with climate change and a new normal, would it be wise to expend limited resources to plan or guard against another 1000 year flood.   And if even if you spend billions and billions to protect Houston and New Orleans what about the other 12 to 15 major US cities that could be in the path of the next hurricane.   

Society DOES recognize this issue.  I spent two years looking at real estate in St Petersburg/ Tampa.  People are very much aware of flood zones and the risks involved and that is reflected in the marketplace.  Insurance rates are through the roof ( as they should be). Values of properties in flood zones do reflect the risks.   Flood zone boundaries have been adjusted.  Building codes have been adjusted.  The character of neighborhoods is changing.  Next door to low slung bungalows you have newer houses on 16 ft stilts.

There has been a lot of building in Houston, but a lot of planning as well.   Although there is virtually no zoning, they have given a lot of thought to drainage.  Most parks ( and there are a lot of beautiful ones) double as retention basins.   The bayou system does work.   There are now 30,000 people in shelters and they are well run, well stocked and well organized.    

I was in Houston last week visiting my daughter.  I got home Wednesday.   We took a behind the scenes tour of NASA.   I also got to see the lab at MD Anderson Cancer Center where my future son in law is working on a cure for Glioblastoma. 

I said to my daughter after our NASA tour, the next time some Bozo says make America great again I want to send them to Houston .   I want to send them to NASA where people are figuring out how humans can live on Mars, to Anderson where more of the smartest people in the world are working on cures for dread diseases.   I want to send them to the parks, museums and public institutions there.  I want to introduce them to the people of Houston who treat their neighbors with grace and kindness.  

And now, in the midst of catastrophe, the people of Houston are showing us all what makes America great. 

This is a friend of my daughter's.   He lives downtown and just showed up at the Convention center on Sunday to help.   Now he's helping to run the show.  He's an engineer. By the way, they have so many volunteers they are turning people away.

This is crazy. I am currently (7pm to 7am) the director of all volunteers, numbered in the hundreds of people at the largest single Red Cross shelter ever. (10,000 evacuees) Figuring out where soldiers can unload a military convoy, getting the support staff kitchen supplies and staff, getting the lights fixed in the shower trailer, getting supplies to the medical triage unit etc.

The red cross checks them in, does a 5 minute orientation, then sends them to me. I find directors and managers for running the 4 dorms of 2500 evacuees each, and special project managers for things like donation unloading, reconnaissance etc.

Long story, but I gotta get back to work. We have hundreds of people taking over for us in the morning and I have to get them trained for the day shift.

It's amazing what can happen when you show up and start doing what needs doing.

Nice post and good job, sarahzm.

All volunteers in that photo

It is just about impossible to defend political actions and reactions years later. Why would I want to defend the indefensible?

You can reflect on what might have happened if the opposition party were involved. Criticism is so easy -- governing is so hard.

Tom_Reingold said:

@mtierney, I don't like the thread title, either, for the same reason as you, but if you're missing the point, you're not paying attention. Cruz and Cornyn want federal aid. They deserve it. We wanted it for Sandy. We deserved it. They didn't want us to have it. If you think it's bad to be angry at them for that, tell us why. We are NOT begrudging Texas its deserved aid. Republicans did begrudge us. Defend that.

mtierney said:

Why would I want to defend the indefensible?

Defending the indefensible is just about all you ever do. Tell us again how voting for your rapist President was an ethical choice.  Please.

Thank you, @mtierney. We agree again.

mtierney said:

You can reflect on what might have happened if the opposition party were involved. 

yes I can.  The Democrats would have voted for disaster aid.

ml1 said:

mtierney said:

You can reflect on what might have happened if the opposition party were involved. 

yes I can.  The Democrats would have voted for disaster aid.

Exactly.

When do we start demanding that our govt do the job we expect volunteers to do? I applaud the efforts of those who give of themselves to help others but I think it's a slippery slope when we depend on volunteers to save, shelter and feed people in times of crisis. 

FWIW, I think that's the job of govt under any circumstance, but especially during times like these in Houston. 

Hahaha said:

When do we start demanding that our govt do the job we expect volunteers to do? I applaud the efforts of those who give of themselves to help others but I think it's a slippery slope when we depend on volunteers to save, shelter and feed people in times of crisis. 

FWIW, I think that's the job of govt under any circumstance, but especially during times like these in Houston. 

I think that's impossible in a situation of this magnitude. We'd have to have massive shelters in every metropolitan area that sat empty 90+% of the time. Warehouses of MREs and water might be plausible, but starvation isn't the major issue here.

While there needs to be sufficient government resources, in the short term at the time of a crisis I do not think it is practical to expect the government to have sufficient resources in place in a location where movement is constrained so locals stepping in is key. As the immediate crisis passes and we move on to support and recovery that is where we can reasonably expect the government to step into the primary role.

to sarahzm's earlier point (p. 1), these disasters disproportionately affect the poor, both in the U.S. and abroad. Ted Cruz is a major league a$$hole, but ya call out his hypocritical *** and then fork over the bucks. 

Christie's and Peter King's big mouths are useful here.