how do you talk to a Trump voter ...

Saying that a lot of our military actions since WW II were ill-advised is not an insult to those who have served - see Vietnam.

prisoners_dilemma said:

I can see this is going to be a productive conversation by way of you designating military activity "stupid". Have you served? Do you speak from experience? Or are you just casting aspersions about the unfamiliar?

Woot said:
Right. Or not.

What is your point? I think the broader point of this thread is that people are struggling with how to engage with you given your irrational support of the orange-haired fascist.

I didn't vote for Trump

um, you don't need to have served to call military activity stupid. You pretty much only need eyes and a bare working history of America since WWII to come to that conclusion.

Also, I don't "civic duty" and "joining the military to be pawns" are quite the same thing.

prisoners_dilemma said:

I can see this is going to be a productive conversation by way of you designating military activity "stupid". Have you served? Do you speak from experience? Or are you just casting aspersions about the unfamiliar?


You appear to be missing the larger point I'm trying to make. Some sort of civic duty that requires the citizenry to participate and build their society as are cohesive unit might do wonders for the divisiveness making the rounds in the country today.

Woot said:

prisoners_dilemma said:

Has nothing to do with color. Looking at the stats, most of the military is white. It has everything to do with contributing to society as a whole, and yes, we should require our citizens, all of our citizens to serve at least 2 years.

Woot said:

ml1 said:

why would we require immigrants to join the military when we don't require our own citizens to join the military to "contribute to the continued security" of the nation?

Because they are not white.

Why would we need every person to serve 2 years? Isn't it cheaper and easier to avoid stupid military activity?

Yes you did. I've explained this many times.

lord_pabulum said:

Woot said:
Right. Or not.

What is your point? I think the broader point of this thread is that people are struggling with how to engage with you given your irrational support of the orange-haired fascist.

I didn't vote for Trump

lord_pabulum said:

Woot said:
Right. Or not.

What is your point? I think the broader point of this thread is that people are struggling with how to engage with you given your irrational support of the orange-haired fascist.

I didn't vote for Trump

Trust me. You are a supporter.

prisoners_dilemma said:

I can see this is going to be a productive conversation by way of you designating military activity "stupid". Have you served? Do you speak from experience? Or are you just casting aspersions about the unfamiliar?


You appear to be missing the larger point I'm trying to make. Some sort of civic duty that requires the citizenry to participate and build their society as are cohesive unit might do wonders for the divisiveness making the rounds in the country today.

maplewood.worldwebs.com/profile/discussions/u/Woot">Woot said:

maplewood.worldwebs.com/profile/discussions/u/prisoners_dilemma">prisoners_dilemma said:

Has nothing to do with color. Looking at the stats, most of the military is white. It has everything to do with contributing to society as a whole, and yes, we should require our citizens, all of our citizens to serve at least 2 years.

maplewood.worldwebs.com/profile/discussions/u/Woot">Woot said:

maplewood.worldwebs.com/profile/discussions/u/ml1">ml1 said:

why would we require immigrants to join the military when we don't require our own citizens to join the military to "contribute to the continued security" of the nation?

Because they are not white.

Why would we need every person to serve 2 years? Isn't it cheaper and easier to avoid stupid military activity?

"Productive"? Did you think you were going to convince me that dramatic increases in military spending makes sense?

And note that my issue is with regard to military activity. It may be the worst idea I've ever heard. How many people turn 18 every year? 4-5 million people?

I love it.

"Everyone should have to serve two years in the military."

The military is stupid.

"How dare you insult the choices others have made, now shuddup and put on your uniform."

Sounds like something I would read in the duffle blog.

RobB said:

I love it.

"Everyone should have to serve two years in the military."

The military is stupid.

"How dare you insult the choices others have made, now shuddup and put on your uniform."

@drummerboy, I think your heart is in the right place but...it might be best to let others speak to DJT voters. Maybe those using a softer inquisition for starters.

Imagine you are a fish in a pond and DJT voters are a longstanding tree on an island in the middle of that pond. The tree is very set in its ways and not as flexible as you. You are an energetic swimmer, but eventually, no matter how much you swim around that tree, your little fish body just wasn't made to climb trees.

I can see your face now...grimacing...yet you know what I say is true.

better off spending time talking to people who didn't vote in 2016.

well, yeah. I've said as much from about November 9th.

the point of the thread is to elicit information and techniques from those people who seem to think that talking to Trump voters would be a useful exercise.

Haven't really seen anything yet.

ml1 said:

better off spending time talking to people who didn't vote in 2016.

er, that's a horrible analogy.

CompassRose said:

@drummerboy, I think your heart is in the right place but...it might be best to let others speak to DJT voters. Maybe those using a softer inquisition for starters.

Imagine you are a fish in a pond and DJT voters are a longstanding tree on an island in the middle of that pond. The tree is very set in its ways and not as flexible as you. You are an energetic swimmer, but eventually, no matter how much you swim around that tree, your little fish body just wasn't made to climb trees.

I can see your face now...grimacing...yet you know what I say is true.

Ha Ha! Probably so, but not so horrible that you didn't understand this one.

drummerboy said:

er, that's a horrible analogy. maplewood.worldwebs.com/assets/images/smileys/5.gif" width="" height="" alt="wink">

Just found out that my physician is a Trump apologist.  After I stopped ranting he said that he would transfer my file to another doc if I wanted. 

years ago, one of my doctors went on an unsolicited rant about Obama and the oncoming onslaught of socialized medicine. Never looked at him the same way again.

eta: just remembered that my former endocrinologist did the same thing. I left her soon after - not just for that, but that was part of it.

jeffl said:

Just found out that my physician is a Trump apologist.  After I stopped ranting he said that he would transfer my file to another doc if I wanted. 

Woot said:

 

lord_pabulum said:
 

Woot said:
Right. Or not.

What is your point? I think the broader point of this thread is that people are struggling with how to engage with you given your irrational support of the orange-haired fascist.

I didn't vote for Trump

Trust me. You are a supporter.

You sound more like Trump with every post

drummerboy said:

Yes you did. I've explained this many times.

lord_pabulum said:

Woot said:
Right. Or not.

What is your point? I think the broader point of this thread is that people are struggling with how to engage with you given your irrational support of the orange-haired fascist.

I didn't vote for Trump

No I didn't.  Were you in the voting booth with me?

you didn't vote for Hillary, right?

Or am I confusing you with author?

lord_pabulum said:

drummerboy said:

Yes you did. I've explained this many times.

lord_pabulum said:

Woot said:
Right. Or not.

What is your point? I think the broader point of this thread is that people are struggling with how to engage with you given your irrational support of the orange-haired fascist.

I didn't vote for Trump

No I didn't.  Were you in the voting booth with me?

The title of this thread should be 'how do you talk to a grown up ... '

if you say so.  

I thought it was only liberals who were smug toward those they disagree with?

lord_pabulum said:

The title of this thread should be 'how do you talk to a grown up ... '

I'm not certain what LP meant by his post but the discourse about Trump isn't particularly civil.  There are an awful lot of insults and discourteous remarks.  I get the emotionality of it, as I am incredibly angry and incredulous, but I don't get mocking and insulting one another.  It doesn't advance any cause.

ml1 said:

if you say so.  

I thought it was only liberals who were smug toward those they disagree with?

lord_pabulum said:

The title of this thread should be 'how do you talk to a grown up ... '

You and the 5th graders on this thread suggest that I either voted for Trump or am a supporter.  I don't consider this grown up discourse. 

I haven't suggested I know whom you voted for.  Your posts do appear to read as support for Trump.  But you say you aren't, so I accept that.

@jeffl, you are always a mensch.

jeffl said:  "I'm not certain what LP meant by his post but the discourse about Trump isn't particularly civil.  There are an awful lot of insults and discourteous remarks.  I get the emotionality of it, as I am incredibly angry and incredulous, but I don't get mocking and insulting one another.  It doesn't advance any cause."

Bears repeating (often).  Emphasis added.

db, here's a link about talking to people on "the other side."  It was posted on another? thread a while ago, but still bears thinking about.  https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/02/the-simple-psychological-trick-to-political-persuasion/515181/

Google yields several other ideas for talking with trump supporters...  https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+persuade+trump+supporters+values&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=the+simple+psychological+trick+to+political+persuasion&*

I do agree that getting out the vote, and having a clear, accessible, repeated Dem message, are the biggies.  otoh, lumping, generalizing, and castigating Trump voters, as jeffl said, doesn't advance anything; those who were "holding their noses" to vote for him might be open (or ajar) to a different option, but they won't be able to hear the message if they are being derided at the same time.

(hoping to wake from this nightmare soon)

mc

mjc said:

...  otoh, lumping, generalizing, and castigating Trump voters, as jeffl said, doesn't advance anything; those who were "holding their noses" to vote for him might be open (or ajar) to a different option, but they won't be able to hear the message if they are being derided at the same time...

It's no use trying to explain this to the intolerant, dogmatic Drummerboy.  He is too busy preaching to listen to reason.

so these conservatives are getting a sad because liberals are upset at them for voting for a malignant clown as president?  the same conservatives who've been calling us "libtards," "snowflakes," and "moonbats" for the past two decades?  Just because we are against bigotry and stupid wars?

Those people aren't reachable through dialogue.  I'll repeat it again.  Liberal success is going to be a result of winning over new voters, not changing the minds of people who are outraged by our values.

ml1 said:

so these conservatives are getting a sad because liberals are upset at them for voting for a malignant clown as president?  the same conservatives who've been calling us "libtards," "snowflakes," and "moonbats" for the past two decades?  Just because we are against bigotry and stupid wars?

Those people aren't reachable through dialogue.  I'll repeat it again.  Liberal success is going to be a result of winning over new voters, not changing the minds of people who are outraged by our values.

I don't understand.  Is it your view that 100% of Trump voters are like the people described in your post?

As a person of The Left I have to concede that there are actually true Conservatives out there who despise Trump as much as I do. For example, David Frum has been great on the issue of Trump. 

Trumpism is not the conservatism of is not the conservatism of Wm. Buckley, Goldwater or even Reagan. It;s the "conservatism" of George Wallace and Archie Bunker.

nothing is 100%

Just like 100% of liberals aren't talking smack about conservatives.

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

so these conservatives are getting a sad because liberals are upset at them for voting for a malignant clown as president?  the same conservatives who've been calling us "libtards," "snowflakes," and "moonbats" for the past two decades?  Just because we are against bigotry and stupid wars?

Those people aren't reachable through dialogue.  I'll repeat it again.  Liberal success is going to be a result of winning over new voters, not changing the minds of people who are outraged by our values.

I don't understand.  Is it your view that 100% of Trump voters are like the people described in your post?