how do you talk to a Trump voter ...

tjohn said:

I had some summer jobs when I was a youngster where I worked hard in the sun (e.g. picking up hay bales and tossing them on a wagon), but I've never done anything remotely like spending a long day picking fruits or vegetables by hand being paid by the piece or by the pound. When you say stuff like this, I hope you have at least done work like this at some point in your life.

prisoners_dilemma said:

Perhaps Angel's parents should have done a cost benefit analysis before coming here. And perhaps some of the Americans that applied should have toughed it out a bit more in the fields. When you actually have to work, and I mean really work and scrape by, you tend to appreciate what you have. Maybe some of the over privileged college kids walking around with their white puzzle pieces could do this as a penance for their white privilege.

I have had my share of summer jobs involving manual labor. It is not fun, BUT, it did teach me the value of hard work.

tjohn said:

I had some summer jobs when I was a youngster where I worked hard in the sun (e.g. picking up hay bales and tossing them on a wagon), but I've never done anything remotely like spending a long day picking fruits or vegetables by hand being paid by the piece or by the pound. When you say stuff like this, I hope you have at least done work like this at some point in your life.

prisoners_dilemma said:

Perhaps Angel's parents should have done a cost benefit analysis before coming here. And perhaps some of the Americans that applied should have toughed it out a bit more in the fields. When you actually have to work, and I mean really work and scrape by, you tend to appreciate what you have. Maybe some of the over privileged college kids walking around with their white puzzle pieces could do this as a penance for their white privilege.

Bailing hay is nothing to sneeze at. I have personally never done it, but I understand from my wife that it's grueling work.

prisoners_dilemma said:

hoops said:

prisoners_dilemma said:

I must say, I do love the acceptance of the Left, casting aspersions on anyone even remotely associated with Trump as troglodytes. You may believe yourselves to be "right", in both the moral and literal senses, but you're just another left wing elitist who thinks they know what's best for the rest of us. Guess what, you don't. As someone who sees some (not all, and i do not agree with everything) value in what he's doing, the constant bemoaning is getting quite tiresome. Casting everyone on the Right as a racist or mysoginist or obstructionist who wants to repeal women's and LGBT rights and send us back to the stone age is judging us as all the same. How amazed Dr. King would be at the crap show that America is today.

Voting and supporting a racist, his racist policies, his appointees who either are there to either tear apart the existing federal regulatory agencies or to empower the very wealthy, is proof enough that you need to own those aspersions.

You seem pretty far left, so I'll use little words and type slowly so you can understand me. Who's a racist? Quote me something he said that's racist. And tearing apart federal regulatory agencies? Which ones? The EPA with their $8.3B budget? That harasses small business owners and then sees fit to dump 3 million gallons of toxic sludge in the Colorado River, poisoning the Navajo Nations watershed? That EPA? Or perhaps the Dept of Aricluture with their $153B budget. The one that funds roughly $80B a year to pork projects and corporate interests? Federal agencies exist to consolidate the power base of the government and those that suckle at its teet.

You look at the actions and not the words. I don't know if Jeff Sessions is a racist. I am willing to bet, however, that he will be less interested in policing the police and enforcing voters rights than was the case under the previous administration. And since African Americans seem to suffer disproportionately from heavy-handed policing and voter suppression, then these policies are de facto racist.

you can deny what you want to deny, your just wasting pixels.

prisoners_dilemma said:

tjohn said:

I had some summer jobs when I was a youngster where I worked hard in the sun (e.g. picking up hay bales and tossing them on a wagon), but I've never done anything remotely like spending a long day picking fruits or vegetables by hand being paid by the piece or by the pound. When you say stuff like this, I hope you have at least done work like this at some point in your life.

prisoners_dilemma said:

Perhaps Angel's parents should have done a cost benefit analysis before coming here. And perhaps some of the Americans that applied should have toughed it out a bit more in the fields. When you actually have to work, and I mean really work and scrape by, you tend to appreciate what you have. Maybe some of the over privileged college kids walking around with their white puzzle pieces could do this as a penance for their white privilege.

I have had my share of summer jobs involving manual labor. It is not fun, BUT, it did teach me the value of hard work.

I didn't mind manual labor but also remember my fifty-something foreman's observation that it's a lot easier when you're 19. My point was that there is no comparison between the my manual labor and what migrant farm workers do and it doesn't sound like you have any idea either. So, I find it a bit much when you tell people to go and do things you wouldn't do.

tjohn said:

prisoners_dilemma said:

tjohn said:

I had some summer jobs when I was a youngster where I worked hard in the sun (e.g. picking up hay bales and tossing them on a wagon), but I've never done anything remotely like spending a long day picking fruits or vegetables by hand being paid by the piece or by the pound. When you say stuff like this, I hope you have at least done work like this at some point in your life.

prisoners_dilemma said:

Perhaps Angel's parents should have done a cost benefit analysis before coming here. And perhaps some of the Americans that applied should have toughed it out a bit more in the fields. When you actually have to work, and I mean really work and scrape by, you tend to appreciate what you have. Maybe some of the over privileged college kids walking around with their white puzzle pieces could do this as a penance for their white privilege.

I have had my share of summer jobs involving manual labor. It is not fun, BUT, it did teach me the value of hard work.

I didn't mind manual labor but also remember my fifty-something foreman's observation that it's a lot easier when you're 19. My point was that there is no comparison between the my manual labor and what migrant farm workers do and it doesn't sound like you have any idea either. So, I find it a bit much when you tell people to go and do things you wouldn't do.

Where did I say I wouldn't do manual labor? If it was the only way to provide for my family, you can bet your *** I'd be picking whatever I could for money.

I don't believe things unless I've seen at least some amount of supporting evidence. I certainly don't believe crimes have taken place unless I've seen evidence. Perhaps that would be a good idea for you to consider.

and fwiw, I don't believe in supernatural beings.

prisoners_dilemma said:

ml1 said:

you believe a few things that don't have supporting evidence.

prisoners_dilemma said:

drummerboy said:

do you think it's healthy for people to believe all of the crap I listed?

prisoners_dilemma said:

I must say, I do love the acceptance of the Left, casting aspersions on anyone even remotely associated with Trump as troglodytes. You may believe yourselves to be "right", in both the moral and literal senses, but you're just another left wing elitist who thinks they know what's best for the rest of us. Guess what, you don't. As someone who sees some (not all, and i do not agree with everything) value in what he's doing, the constant bemoaning is getting quite tiresome. Casting everyone on the Right as a racist or mysoginist or obstructionist who wants to repeal women's and LGBT rights and send us back to the stone age is judging us as all the same. How amazed Dr. King would be at the crap show that America is today.

No, and if you find someone who believes each and every thing on your list, please tell me, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell them. But seriously, just cherry picking here:

1. I woukd say ISIS should be at the top of international threats, not only for what they're doing, but what they could do and represent.


2. I do believe there are a substantial amount of people that don't want to work for a living and do expect handouts.


3. Visual evidence indicates Trump's crowds were not the biggest ever.

4. I do believe there was some amount of voter fraud.

5. I do believe Obama is a socialist (Frank Marshall Davis anyone??). Bernie wears it proudly, why couldn't Obama?


6. Goldman is evil, part of "the machine", no argument there. Not exactly pleased about those appointments.


7. And yes, I do believe Obama/Hillary ordered a stand down because it didn't fit the narrative/optics they already released to the public.

What do you believe that doesn't have supporting evidence? Aliens? UFO's? JFK and Elvis living in Tahiti? It's what I believe. I don't need supporting evidence. Millions of Muslims believe in Mohammed, Christians in Christ. They were actual people, but there's no hard evidence they exist and supernatural beings.

prisoners_dilemma said:

Where did I say I wouldn't do manual labor? If it was the only way to provide for my family, you can bet your *** I'd be picking whatever I could for money.

There's the rub - you can't really provide for you family on what you would earn. You wife and children would be helping out but still would not make enough to provide for a future.

I'm not convinced this prisoners_dilemma person isn't impersonating a Trump supporter. But if she/he is for real, I have a couple of observations. First is that most of the responses from us Trump opponents have been respectful, despite the accusation that we're all intolerant. But my other observation is that this person isn't representing the Trump voter all that well. A lot of unfounded assertions and a paucity of real solid rationale for supporting Trump.

True, but maybe the lack of earnings and back breaking work would spur me to do something different. As an illegal, the military is a path to citizenship. I do believe that everyone should serve at least 2 years. If you're going to live here and benefit from your citizenship, then you should contribute to the continued security of it, and I don't mean the military adventure we've been on since 2003. Iraq was not a good choice, I feel differently about Afghanistan.

tjohn said:

prisoners_dilemma said:

Where did I say I wouldn't do manual labor? If it was the only way to provide for my family, you can bet your *** I'd be picking whatever I could for money.

There's the rub - you can't really provide for you family on what you would earn. You wife and children would be helping out but still would not make enough to provide for a future.

prisoner_dilemma said: True, but maybe the lack of earnings and back breaking work would spur me to do something different. As an illegal, the military is a path to citizenship. I do believe that everyone should serve at least 2 years. If you're going to live here and benefit from your citizenship, then you should contribute to the continued security of it, and I don't mean the military adventure we've been on since 2003. Iraq was not a good choice, I feel differently about Afghanistan.

You may want to know about these veterans.

https://www.facebook.com/DeportedVeteransSupportHousePage/

"First of all, in order to join the U.S. military as a non-citizen, you must be currently living permanently (and legally) in the United States. Tourist visas and student visas aren't good enough."

why would we require immigrants to join the military when we don't require our own citizens to join the military to "contribute to the continued security" of the nation?

ml1,

You are too kind.

#2. One of the great Right-Wing myths. There may be a few people like that but not a "substantial" number. Unless, perhaps, you count certain children of very wealth families

#4. Not sure what "some amount" means. There may have been a few isolated instances,

#5. At best a complete mis-understanding of the word "socialist". But the reference to the "Frank Davis" conspiracy is telling. For the uninitiated the person in question was a buddy of Obama's granddad in Hawaii. Like old guys on a park bench buddies. 30 or 40 years before Davis was a "Red". The real loonies claim that Davis was Obama's father.

#7. Absolute nuts. And once he said that you folks should have stopped responding.

ml1 said:

you believe a few things that don't have supporting evidence.

prisoners_dilemma said:

1. I woukd say ISIS should be at the top of international threats, not only for what they're doing, but what they could do and represent.


2. I do believe there are a substantial amount of people that don't want to work for a living and do expect handouts.


3. Visual evidence indicates Trump's crowds were not the biggest ever.

4. I do believe there was some amount of voter fraud.

5. I do believe Obama is a socialist (Frank Marshall Davis anyone??). Bernie wears it proudly, why couldn't Obama?


6. Goldman is evil, part of "the machine", no argument there. Not exactly pleased about those appointments.


7. And yes, I do believe Obama/Hillary ordered a stand down because it didn't fit the narrative/optics they already released to the public.

People want the jobs the immigrants had so much that 2 people showed up to cover for 60 missing Hispanic workers and lasted all of 2 hours.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers?CMP=share_btn_tw

sometimes the TOS of MOL don't allow me to write precisely what I'm thinking.

LOST said:

ml1,

You are too kind.

#2. One of the great Right-Wing myths. There may be a few people like that but not a "substantial" number. Unless, perhaps, you count certain children of very wealth families

#4. Not sure what "some amount" means. There may have been a few isolated instances,

#5. At best a complete mis-understanding of the word "socialist". But the reference to the "Frank Davis" conspiracy is telling. For the uninitiated the person in question was a buddy of Obama's granddad in Hawaii. Like old guys on a park bench buddies. 30 or 40 years before Davis was a "Red". The real loonies claim that Davis was Obama's father.

#7. Absolute nuts. And once he said that you folks should have stopped responding.

ml1 said:

you believe a few things that don't have supporting evidence.

prisoners_dilemma said:

1. I woukd say ISIS should be at the top of international threats, not only for what they're doing, but what they could do and represent.


2. I do believe there are a substantial amount of people that don't want to work for a living and do expect handouts.


3. Visual evidence indicates Trump's crowds were not the biggest ever.

4. I do believe there was some amount of voter fraud.

5. I do believe Obama is a socialist (Frank Marshall Davis anyone??). Bernie wears it proudly, why couldn't Obama?


6. Goldman is evil, part of "the machine", no argument there. Not exactly pleased about those appointments.


7. And yes, I do believe Obama/Hillary ordered a stand down because it didn't fit the narrative/optics they already released to the public.

ml1 said:

sometimes the TOS of MOL don't allow me to write precisely what I'm thinking.

I really wish the TOS was suspended for just one day or even just one hour.

if you're clever, you can slip something through

LOST said:

ml1 said:

sometimes the TOS of MOL don't allow me to write precisely what I'm thinking.

I really wish the TOS was suspended for just one day or even just one hour.

Or even for just one thread.

LOST said:

ml1 said:

sometimes the TOS of MOL don't allow me to write precisely what I'm thinking.

I really wish the TOS was suspended for just one day or even just one hour.

again, thank you for proving that your mind is quite defective and we need not pay attention to your posts except to ridicule.

prisoners_dilemma said:

drummerboy said:

do you think it's healthy for people to believe all of the crap I listed?

prisoners_dilemma said:

I must say, I do love the acceptance of the Left, casting aspersions on anyone even remotely associated with Trump as troglodytes. You may believe yourselves to be "right", in both the moral and literal senses, but you're just another left wing elitist who thinks they know what's best for the rest of us. Guess what, you don't. As someone who sees some (not all, and i do not agree with everything) value in what he's doing, the constant bemoaning is getting quite tiresome. Casting everyone on the Right as a racist or mysoginist or obstructionist who wants to repeal women's and LGBT rights and send us back to the stone age is judging us as all the same. How amazed Dr. King would be at the crap show that America is today.

No, and if you find someone who believes each and every thing on your list, please tell me, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell them. But seriously, just cherry picking here:

1. I woukd say ISIS should be at the top of international threats, not only for what they're doing, but what they could do and represent.


2. I do believe there are a substantial amount of people that don't want to work for a living and do expect handouts.


3. Visual evidence indicates Trump's crowds were not the biggest ever.

4. I do believe there was some amount of voter fraud.

5. I do believe Obama is a socialist (Frank Marshall Davis anyone??). Bernie wears it proudly, why couldn't Obama?


6. Goldman is evil, part of "the machine", no argument there. Not exactly pleased about those appointments.


7. And yes, I do believe Obama/Hillary ordered a stand down because it didn't fit the narrative/optics they already released to the public.

game, set,match.

Mic drop.

The fat lady has sung.

Elvis has left the building.

I could not have asked for a more perfect representative to join this thread.

My work is done.

prisoners_dilemma said:

It's what I believe. I don't need supporting evidence. Millions of Muslims believe in Mohammed, Christians in Christ. They were actual people, but there's no hard evidence they exist and supernatural beings.

I'm still not convinced this isn't a person doing a parody of a Trump voter.

drummerboy said:

game, set,match.

Mic drop.

The fat lady has sung.

Elvis has left the building.

I could not have asked for a more perfect representative to join this thread.

My work is done.

prisoners_dilemma said:

It's what I believe. I don't need supporting evidence. Millions of Muslims believe in Mohammed, Christians in Christ. They were actual people, but there's no hard evidence they exist and supernatural beings.

you can never really tell..

ml1 said:

I'm still not convinced this isn't a person doing a parody of a Trump voter.

drummerboy said:

game, set,match.

Mic drop.

The fat lady has sung.

Elvis has left the building.

I could not have asked for a more perfect representative to join this thread.

My work is done.

prisoners_dilemma said:

It's what I believe. I don't need supporting evidence. Millions of Muslims believe in Mohammed, Christians in Christ. They were actual people, but there's no hard evidence they exist and supernatural beings.

Anyone who doesn't enter drummerboy's bubble is a fill in the blank. Yet, if he looked in the mirror he would realize that he has no self-awareness and reflects a Trump supporter he so vehemently despises.

I was waiting for your invariable pithy and utterly imperceptive post.

Nice try on the double reverse flip there.

I notice you haven't ever dared answer the question I ask in this thread, so your non-bon mots fall kind of flat, bereft of substance and intellectual integrity.

lord_pabulum said:

Anyone who doesn't enter drummerboy's bubble is a fill in the blank. Yet, if he looked in the mirror he would realize that he has no self-awareness and reflects a Trump supporter he so vehemently despises.

Whatever his quirks, nothing like a typical Trump supporter.

lord_pabulum said:

Anyone who doesn't enter drummerboy's bubble is a fill in the blank. Yet, if he looked in the mirror he would realize that he has no self-awareness and reflects a Trump supporter he so vehemently despises.

Haven't read this yet, but it looks to be interesting. This thread is a good place for it, I think.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sam-altman-interview-trump-supporters-2017-2

But yet you were 'waiting'...

drummerboy said:

I was waiting for your invariable pithy and utterly imperceptive post.

Nice try on the double reverse flip there.






I notice you haven't ever dared answer the question I ask in this thread, so your non-bon mots fall kind of flat, bereft of substance and intellectual integrity.

lord_pabulum said:

Anyone who doesn't enter drummerboy's bubble is a fill in the blank. Yet, if he looked in the mirror he would realize that he has no self-awareness and reflects a Trump supporter he so vehemently despises.

because it's such a soft target.

lord_pabulum said:

But yet you were 'waiting'...

drummerboy said:

I was waiting for your invariable pithy and utterly imperceptive post.

Nice try on the double reverse flip there.






I notice you haven't ever dared answer the question I ask in this thread, so your non-bon mots fall kind of flat, bereft of substance and intellectual integrity.

lord_pabulum said:

Anyone who doesn't enter drummerboy's bubble is a fill in the blank. Yet, if he looked in the mirror he would realize that he has no self-awareness and reflects a Trump supporter he so vehemently despises.

oh, never mind...