Houseguests marriage is dissolving

before my husband and I got married we had a very rough spot and almost separated. A good friend and her husband came for a visit and spent time with us. I felt so dark and they added some lightness. A couple of years ago the same friend and her husband went through a very tough time - I wondered and sometimes felt they should separate. My husband and I went to visit them, spent time with them, and they thanked us, imagining no one would want to be around when they were so unhappy. I reminded them they picked me up years ago. We are all very close now - we always were but now it feels like family. I guess the difference with the OP is that we were all very honest and open (though of course I am sure there was some things kept private). But for a good friend or family member I would not resent being there for them. Having so many houseguests, however, would make me feel overwhelmed.

zombie_zoinks said:

Well I guess the revenge is playing out their situation on a web bulletin board without their knowledge or consent.

Nothing the OP has said indicated they wanted revenge. Just an MOLer discussing a problem they were having with friends (us)...

On a public web board. This is not a private conversations. This is airing other people's difficulties with a megaphone from a soapbox in the middle of a park. And is highly inappropriate and disrespectful and rude to the house guests.

hope4u said:

before my husband and I got married we had a very rough spot and almost separated. A good friend and her husband came for a visit and spent time with us. I felt so dark and they added some lightness. A couple of years ago the same friend and her husband went through a very tough time - I wondered and sometimes felt they should separate. My husband and I went to visit them, spent time with them, and they thanked us, imagining no one would want to be around when they were so unhappy. I reminded them they picked me up years ago. We are all very close now - we always were but now it feels like family. I guess the difference with the OP is that we were all very honest and open (though of course I am sure there was some things kept private). But for a good friend or family member I would not resent being there for them. Having so many houseguests, however, would make me feel overwhelmed.

If I ever go from the "haven't been there" category to "there," this is the response I'd aspire to. Thanks for posting it.

Maybe you need to manage the house guests litter a little better. I know you are trying to do right by everyone but this situation could have been avoided by simply making the number of guests being accomodated a little more realistic for a peaceful respite.

kibbegirl said:

Woot said:

greenetree said:

I'm not saying that Kmk's family should have to put up with this or are evil if they don't. But I do think that those of you who are being really harsh & judgmental may be a bit over the top. Chances are that this couple just can't see it or truly doesn't know what to do.

Few things will screw up your head & judgment like a marriage falling apart. I would put this squarely in the, "if you haven't been there...." category.

It is possible to be compassionate and aggravated at the same time.

We'll said.

True but why do they have to give up a slice of their happiness to accommodate them? They are their friends, not their therapists. As friends, you can only do so much to smooth over the situation. Unless I'm reading the OP wrong, it sounds like a tense environment for all involved.

You don't get to pick a convenient time to be a good friend. ***** happens in life. You either decide to be supportive and put someone else first, or you don't. These people are in turmoil. I doubt they are choosing any of this.

KMK has every right to vent and be annoyed, but she is being an exemplary friend, the kind of friend I happen to admire.

What mammabear said. (we're agreeing again...this might get dangerous ;-) )

I have two thoughts as I read more of this thread...

One is that (in my personal ethics) once you've invited someone as a houseguest for a certain period of time, you've given the gift and shouldn't take it back unless their behavior as guests goes into the end-of-friendship zone (stealing the silver or hurting pets or children!). Maybe you don't invite them back again, but you stick out the commitment that you made when you offered hospitality.

Second, for myself, if I were finding that my summer had too little time for peace or reflection, I might consider a smaller rental the next season, giving me a good excuse to reduce or eliminate the guest load. But others are more natural hosts than I am, so your miles may vary.

susan1014 said:

What mammabear said. (we're agreeing again...this might get dangerous ;-) )

;-) Oh my!!!

susan1014 said:

What mammabear said. (we're agreeing again...this might get dangerous ;-) )

I have two thoughts as I read more of this thread...

One is that (in my personal ethics) once you've invited someone as a houseguest for a certain period of time, you've given the gift and shouldn't take it back unless their behavior as guests goes into the end-of-friendship zone (stealing the silver or hurting pets or children!). Maybe you don't invite them back again, but you stick out the commitment that you made when you offered hospitality.

Second, for myself, if I were finding that my summer had too little time for peace or reflection, I might consider a smaller rental the next season, giving me a good excuse to reduce or eliminate the guest load. But others are more natural hosts than I am, so your miles may vary.

Agreed, as well. I might add, though, that I'd be mortified that I was making things difficult for my host and would actually appreciate being pulled discretely aside and offered help. I know KMK doesn't necessarily want to deal with a crying friend (I think her term was "blech") but I do think it would be much easier to not have to deal with an elephant in the room. They probably think no one is the wiser and have no idea that they are ruining someone's vacation. I would want the chance to make things right, either by adjusting my attitude or going home.

Just as an aside, a long time ago we spent a weekend with a couple and things were tense and depressing. We assumed they were divorcing. When I pulled my friend aside, it turns out that they were undergoing fertility problems and while she was ready to go public and talk to us about it, but he wasn't. Hence the deep sadness, secrecy and tension. Not saying this is the case here, but sometimes our assumptions can be off course.

KMK - I think that I see part of the problem. You did not rent a vacation house; you opened a hotel.

Seriously, maybe you enjoy all the company, but many folks I know who own/rent summer places eventually lose their minds & ban guests. My own brother only allows friends with kids of the same age during the summer. It makes it easier for them when the kids have playmates.

Granted, they own, so we can enjoy their place the rest of the year.

I HATE it when elephants visit and cry.

Nicely put, Susan1014 and ADifferentOne.

greenetree said:

KMK - I think that I see part of the problem. You did not rent a vacation house; you opened a hotel.

Indeed.

Totally agree with Greenetree. Also, there is something to be said for maritally-challenged couples who insist on dragging their friends into their demise and possible reconciliation. Friendships have to be incredibly strong, mutually-rewarding and worth saving to go through that and remain intact.

I don't mind guests, I support those I love, I remain respectful of other's privacy and I WILL NEVER allow myself to be dragged into someone else's private family drama.

I give advice when asked and then I step away. This doesn't mean that I don't shake my head in disbelief or sometimes chafe at my circumstances, but for the good of my own family I need to emotionally disengage from some situations and move on.

kmk said:

I don't mind guests, I support those I love, I remain respectful of other's privacy and I WILL NEVER allow myself to be dragged into someone else's private family drama.

I give advice when asked and then I step away. This doesn't mean that I don't shake my head in disbelief or sometimes chafe at my circumstances, but for the good of my own family I need to emotionally disengage from some situations and move on.

This is perfect. Love your friends, support them, offer advice as requested, then step away. Let people do what is best for them and support their decisions, even when you don't personally agree. There is no reason to be "dragged in".

Every one of us has crap here and there. There are times when we need the support of friends, and other times when we provide the support to others.

If we all don't "pick convenient times to be friends" then that should be all around and not just for the host family. This isn't a good time for them as a couple to be with other people. Seems like they need time to work it out w/out trying to put up a brave front around others and pretend all's well when the hosts can hear through the walls that all isn't well. Also, how do you "step away" when they're in your home? If they popped in for a visit to deeply discuss their marriage that's one thing. But to be a house guest with same issues is really difficult.

Being friends isn't about convenience. It's about taking the bad with the good. (I'm NOT suggesting this is what KMK's doing, which is an unusual situation and seems to have worked out. But it does imply that there will be good times as well as bad.) Conversely, it shouldn't make people afraid to be around their friends when they can't successfully paste on a smiley face.

Stuff happens. Real friends understand. Acquaintances ask them to go home. Relationships are three-dimensional, and it isn't always going to be pretty. I think that's OK.

I imagine being around friends give the couple a respite from their own difficulties rather than stewing in them all the time. Telling friends to leave when they have difficulties is sort of the definition of fair - weather friend. That said, I do think it would be good to let at least one of them know that they're not quite being as discrete as they might think, as has been suggested by many.

PeggyC said:

Being friends isn't about convenience. It's about taking the bad with the good. (I'm NOT suggesting this is what KMK's doing, which is an unusual situation and seems to have worked out. But it does imply that there will be good times as well as bad.) Conversely, it shouldn't make people afraid to be around their friends when they can't successfully paste on a smiley face.

Stuff happens. Real friends understand. Acquaintances ask them to go home. Relationships are three-dimensional, and it isn't always going to be pretty. I think that's OK.

So true Peggy! All relationships take some level of work from both sides. And each one has good times and bad times. We usually don't get to pick when it's good or when it's bad. Sh*t happens. Just because something gets "hard" or takes more work, doesn't mean you just dispose of it. To me, my relationships don't just get tossed because they are in a rough patch for one reason or another.

I doubt this couple WANTS to have this going on, especially at someone else's home. It sounds like they are long time friends who have had many good times and just happen to be having an issue right now. Again, sh*t happens.

KMK, I understand this must be difficult to watch and be close to. Please know you can vent here! And also know that you are being a very good friend

ParticleMan said:

I imagine being around friends give the couple a respite from their own difficulties rather than stewing in them all the time.

But that isn't what seems to be going on.

kmk said:

Bad News: pretty hurtful "zingers" are being thrown around during the day now. Strange thing is they are directed to everyone but each other.

The couple is holding it together in such a way as to appear at they are at peace but you can tell the emotions are simmering underneath when their snarky, judgmental comments - about everything and everybody else - begin to fly.

This seems to go beyond being there for a couple who are just bummed out and needing support, this entails everyone else now being the target of the anger.

kmk said:

Bad News: pretty hurtful "zingers" are being thrown around during the day now. Strange thing is they are directed to everyone but each other.

The couple is holding it together in such a way as to appear at they are at peace but you can tell the emotions are simmering underneath when their snarky, judgmental comments - about everything and everybody else - begin to fly.

This seems to go beyond being there for a couple who are just bummed out and needing support, this entails everyone else now being the target of the anger.




I'm sure they fought the good fight as long as possible to NOT have this happen but seriously, it's time to go.

They really need to go home, into separate corners and try to figure out if they really want to make it work. And again, I reiterate... NOT BE AROUND OTHER PEOPLE! Nothing worse than being aorund other "good" couples when you're no longer a "good" couple. I'm sure their intentions were pure and they really didn't want to make a mess out of their time there, but they have. To stay any longer with this above behavior now makes them pissy friends (IMO).

By now, they probably have done just that. But we will have to agree to disagree about "not being around 'good' couples." The exception I make in this case is that they started taking zingers at other people. I think I might have simply called them on THAT behavior, which is bizarre, in private. But I simply can't imagine how unhappy they must have been.

When I was getting divorced I was in a vacuum. My ex was so controlling that we never really had any friends because I was so embarrassed by some of his behavior and reluctant to expose anyone else to it (it made me look like a damn fool for hanging in there that long, frankly). It was the loneliest time of my life, and it made me second-guess every thought I had because he was jumping all over everything I said and did. What I wouldn't have given for friends I could just spend time with to detox. But he had taken that away.

Toxic marriages can be terribly isolating, and I hate to see that enforced by other people because it makes them uncomfortable. You do need to know when to draw lines for your own good, but I guess this topic touched a bit of a nerve for me.

PeggyC said:

Being friends isn't about convenience. It's about taking the bad with the good. (I'm NOT suggesting this is what KMK's doing, which is an unusual situation and seems to have worked out. But it does imply that there will be good times as well as bad.) Conversely, it shouldn't make people afraid to be around their friends when they can't successfully paste on a smiley face.

Stuff happens. Real friends understand. Acquaintances ask them to go home. Relationships are three-dimensional, and it isn't always going to be pretty. I think that's OK.

+1. Frankly, I'm surprised by the reactions of a few posters here. With friends like that, who needs enemies? Ask your invited vacation houseguests to leave because they are going through a rough patch as a couple and you would prefer to vacation without that energy/dynamic? Sheesh!

I wouldn't ask them to leave, but quite frankly if they were hurling insults at me because I was an easier target than their spouse I would have serious reservations about inviting them again unless they either addressed the underlying issue or split up. Using friends as an emotional punching bag isn't cool.

I'm sorry, but KMK's family should be more important than her friends. If this is detrimental to her family, the warring couple gets asked to leave. It's not that she shouldn't be a good friend, it's that it's more important for her to be a good parent.

bella said:

I'm sorry, but KMK's family should be more important than her friends. If this is detrimental to her family, the warring couple gets asked to leave. It's not that she shouldn't be a good friend, it's that it's more important for her to be a good parent.

Being a good parent could mean using this (if the kids have noticed) as a teaching moment -- either for how we stick by friends by thick and thin, or in how we push away the problems of others so that they don't disturb our peace.

I'm not saying that there would never be a case for sending away an invited guest (see my earlier posting), but I am saying that good parenting means a heck of a lot more than protecting kids from things.

KMK, note that I'm aiming this comment at the abstract conversation, rather than at your specifics. Hoping that your situation has calmed down or ended!

kmk, you are a very caring person. I think the troubled couple were inconsiderate to you because they are caught up in their own problems. Your summer home is not the time or place for them right now. They should not have accepted the invitation but rather use the time to work out their future, together or apart. I know they are in pain but there it is.

susan1014 said:

bella said:

I'm sorry, but KMK's family should be more important than her friends. If this is detrimental to her family, the warring couple gets asked to leave. It's not that she shouldn't be a good friend, it's that it's more important for her to be a good parent.

Being a good parent could mean using this (if the kids have noticed) as a teaching moment -- either for how we stick by friends by thick and thin, or in how we push away the problems of others so that they don't disturb our peace.

I'm not saying that there would never be a case for sending away an invited guest (see my earlier posting), but I am saying that good parenting means a heck of a lot more than protecting kids from things.

KMK, note that I'm aiming this comment at the abstract conversation, rather than at your specifics. Hoping that your situation has calmed down or ended!

Or how to recognise a toxic friend who has no regard for the others in the house?

Or to realize that friendships sometimes come to an end because it has become detrimental to one party?

Yes, bella, if the behavior is that toxic and seems destined to continue.

Alternatively, the lesson may be that everyone goes through bad times that make us temporarily difficult to be around, and that friends tread the fine line of figuring out how to deal with problems while refusing to be punching bags (sometimes requiring distance, but not often overt rejection).

Granted, I'm making the assumption that most houseguests are long-term friends or relatives, and not discarded lightly.

I think there are very few of us who haven't had times in our lives when we were in emotional trouble, hard to be around, and perhaps even toxic for a time. We cherish the friends who were still there when we returned to the good times.

But also, of course, there is much to be said for knowing when you are too toxic to be a long-term houseguest, and it is painful when someone doesn't have that knowledge!

PeggyC said:

By now, they probably have done just that. But we will have to agree to disagree about "not being around 'good' couples." The exception I make in this case is that they started taking zingers at other people. I think I might have simply called them on THAT behavior, which is bizarre, in private. But I simply can't imagine how unhappy they must have been.

When I was getting divorced I was in a vacuum. My ex was so controlling that we never really had any friends because I was so embarrassed by some of his behavior and reluctant to expose anyone else to it (it made me look like a damn fool for hanging in there that long, frankly). It was the loneliest time of my life, and it made me second-guess every thought I had because he was jumping all over everything I said and did. What I wouldn't have given for friends I could just spend time with to detox. But he had taken that away.

Toxic marriages can be terribly isolating, and I hate to see that enforced by other people because it makes them uncomfortable. You do need to know when to draw lines for your own good, but I guess this topic touched a bit of a nerve for me.

We must have lived mirrored lives, in retropsect i was fascinated how many people tolerated inappropriate behavior, kmk so sorry you have to be exposed to this, i dont think they are aware of the effect or even that you noticed but as mentioned by others just a warm nod helps

bella said:

susan1014 said:

bella said:

I'm sorry, but KMK's family should be more important than her friends. If this is detrimental to her family, the warring couple gets asked to leave. It's not that she shouldn't be a good friend, it's that it's more important for her to be a good parent.

Being a good parent could mean using this (if the kids have noticed) as a teaching moment -- either for how we stick by friends by thick and thin, or in how we push away the problems of others so that they don't disturb our peace.

I'm not saying that there would never be a case for sending away an invited guest (see my earlier posting), but I am saying that good parenting means a heck of a lot more than protecting kids from things.

KMK, note that I'm aiming this comment at the abstract conversation, rather than at your specifics. Hoping that your situation has calmed down or ended!

Or how to recognise a toxic friend who has no regard for the others in the house?

Or to realize that friendships sometimes come to an end because it has become detrimental to one party?

Exactly right bella. I'd go to the ends of the earth for my friends. But not when they are toxic. Here's some good info on how to recognize a toxic friend:

http://www.webmd.com/women/features/toxic-friends-less-friend-more-foe