Houseguests marriage is dissolving
eliz said:
TigerLilly said:
As annoying as this situation must be for kmk and her family, I don't think that keeping their friends up at the vacation house for a few days, despite their relationship problems, will be an irreparable detriment to her family's happiness. I'm sort of surprised at how extreme some of the reactions to this situation are. Am I the only one who grew up having a few bad vacations? I agree this situation is really truly unfortunate for everyone involved, but the notion that her family's utter happiness is at stake seems a bit extreme to me.
Hallelujah!
Her kids should have to witness a marriage falling apart when it isn't necessary????
Plus the average number of vacation days in the US is a pittance, why should someone else's arguing in the middle of the night be acceptable, thus squandering HOST family's time?
Sure we've all had bad family vacations, but the people creating the situation aren't family, they are rude houseguests who are abusing KMK's friendship and hospitality.
Even though my case is extreme, people just have different tolerances for fighting and yelling. My parents always fought- never bitterly or aggressively but always argued. I never gave it much thought. Our family tends to yell also. Not a lot but when someone's mad, there is some yelling. Especially between my sister and I as teens. Husband is an only child from a very quiet house. It was very upsetting to him when my sister and I yelled at each other or my parents fought. He got used to it but I certainly understand where he is coming from. ( and wish sometimes I was from THERE)
bella said:
eliz said:
TigerLilly said:
As annoying as this situation must be for kmk and her family, I don't think that keeping their friends up at the vacation house for a few days, despite their relationship problems, will be an irreparable detriment to her family's happiness. I'm sort of surprised at how extreme some of the reactions to this situation are. Am I the only one who grew up having a few bad vacations? I agree this situation is really truly unfortunate for everyone involved, but the notion that her family's utter happiness is at stake seems a bit extreme to me.
Hallelujah!
Her kids should have to witness a marriage falling apart when it isn't necessary????
Plus the average number of vacation days in the US is a pittance, why should someone else's arguing in the middle of the night be acceptable, thus squandering HOST family's time?
Sure we've all had bad family vacations, but the people creating the situation aren't family, they are rude houseguests who are abusing KMK's friendship and hospitality.
The kids aren't 6 years old. They're old enough to understand.They'll live. And they're probably able to move past this situation more than adults. Again, life will go on and they'll all be left without permanent scars. There isn't any abuse here just a very unfortunate situation.
Some posters have indicated the house guests are going through all-consuming and devastating stuff so they should be given a pass for their inconsiderate behaviour.
But in my opinion, going through all-consuming and devastating stuff, and vacationing at a friend's beach house, are mutually exclusive. If you're going through all-consuming and devastating stuff, you're not vacationing at a friend's beach house. And if you're vacationing at a friend's beach house, you're not going through all-consuming and devastating stuff.
Peace out.
Friends' potentially life-changing drama > my family's happiness for a couple of weeks
Thankfully, there's no rule that dictates whether one equation (or any that have been discussed) is greater than the other.
DaveSchmidt said:
An alternative equation:
Friends' potentially life-changing drama > my family's happiness for a couple of weeks
Thankfully, there's no rule that dictates whether one equation (or any that have been discussed) is greater than the other.
You can live by either belief depending on who you are, but in most circles, you don't kick out houseguests and expect to remain friends with them, so the real equation may be:
having friendship survive after life-changing drama ends my family's happiness for a couple of weeks
In this case, the timing is unfortunate. I doubt the house guests want to have these issues while they are on vacation. I am sure they are paralyzed by what is going on in their relationship. BTDT. It's horrific and all-consuming. The good news is that they have a supportive friend in KMK, who while a tad annoyed, is being an awesome friend.
Do you worry about what's happening in your own back yard (your family) or do you insert yourself in another country's issue that may impact you (couple with issues).
I know I have seen plenty of comments stating we should spend money on our schools here than on a war in such and such place.
mammabear said:
Everyone takes their turn at eating the crap sandwich. All of us experience it at some point. We don't get to choose when it happens. You expect your village to be there for you, just as you are there for your village. It's give and take. If you village makes their support conditional or contingent, then they are NOT your village.
In this case, the timing is unfortunate. I doubt the house guests want to have these issues while they are on vacation. I am sure they are paralyzed by what is going on in their relationship. BTDT. It's horrific and all-consuming. The good news is that they have a supportive friend in KMK, who while a tad annoyed, is being an awesome friend.
Friendship is NEVER wholly unconditional...that's for syrupy Hallmark cards. The question is when does it become necessary to let it go. There's always a level reached at which point it becomes too onerous on one side to maintain, all take and no give, etc. It happens. What folks seem to be debating is where that level is at. I don't believe anyone suggested kicking them out and summarily ending the friendship over this.
Personally I don't think I even advocated kicking them out (too lazy to check right now) but did state that they had a responsibility to those around them to not be so self-absorbed and to cut the crap. Even allowing for some all-consuming life-event to give a pass to the complete lack of self-awareness, it surely doesn't excuse the outward behavior to others. At minimum it warrants a talking-to to advise them that their destructive behavior is being felt negatively by others. Sometimes that's what a true friend DOES-- has the tough conversation with someone who clearly needs it, instead of letting the elephant in the room suffocate others around them.
ctrzaska said:
Friendship is NEVER wholly unconditional...that's for syrupy Hallmark cards. The question is when does it become necessary to let it go. There's always a level reached at which point it becomes too onerous on one side to maintain, all take and no give, etc. It happens. What folks seem to be debating is where that level is at. I don't believe anyone suggested kicking them out and summarily ending the friendship over this.
I think very few things in life are 100% black and white. Relationships are always give and take. No one should be expected to a doormat. I think that goes without saying.
I guess I'm just surprised at the reaction of some...and the assumptions made about the friendship in question. A friends who is a current house guest is having a rough patch. KMK has NOT said this has happened before, or that her friend never gives back, is "toxic" or said that she is considering ending her friendship over same. She posted about being annoyed and worried. She's tired. And that's fair. If I were in her shoes, I probably would be too. The good news is that her life goes back to normal in the short term but it doesn't sound like her friend's life will be normal any time soon.
My wish for those of you who don't have any idea is that you live a life and marriage that forever enshrines your uninformed, sanctimonious certainty on the subject.
greenetree said:
I think this isn't a debate worth having. Those of us who have been in that horrible place know. It can't be explained, nor would anyone who hasn't been there ever, ever, EVER be able to imagine it.
My wish for those of you who don't have any idea is that you live a life and marriage that forever enshrines your uninformed, sanctimonious certainty on the subject.
+100
Oldstone said:
Oh please. How about the guests saying: thanks so much for the invite, kmk , but we aren't going to be very good company this weekend, we are having some issues and don't want to visit them on you. We won't be very good company this weekend. THAT is a friend.
exactly--- it is about maintaining a level of consideration and civility and not imposingyour temporary insanity on anyone, friend, family or foe.
Sanctimonious, really? I hope there was a touch of sheer irony in that choice of words.
"Thank you all.
There are a number of circumstances that keep them from going home right now.
We are closer to the wife but she is also the one in a more tenuous, emotionally unstable place. It sucks but, I am absolutely certain, when I say something she is going to completely break down into a puddle of heaving sobs. Blech.
It is so strange. They have been married 25 years and during the day, in social situations, they behave as though nothing is wrong. There are even tender familiar moments between them.
I heard about the original "rift" a few months ago and witnessed some pretty heart-wrenching stuff.
I wish they would just TALK IT OUT in the AM and not keep sweeping it under the rug for the sake of their freakin' vacation!").
Of course threads can drift but since we seem to still be talking about what kmk could or should do and how good a friend that makes her or not, I thought it wise to just give us all a friendly reminder that kmk has already provided a lot of reasons/background on that first page.
Oldstone said:
Oh please. How about the guests saying: thanks so much for the invite, kmk , but we aren't going to be very good company this weekend, we are having some issues and don't want to visit them on you. We won't be very good company this weekend. THAT is a friend.
+1,000,000
I think the combination of being away from home, interacting with other couples and some other stressors, caused their already wobbly marriage "train" to skid towards a derailment.
The bits that we picked up on were the brakes screeching as they tried to prevent, or at least postpone, the end of the ride. I do not know how this will play out in the months ahead but I love them both and hope that they are soon pain free.
They have left and umpteen gillion teenagers have arrived. Onto the joys of parenting and being the "bad guy" when it comes to curfews etc.!
I was going to ignore this, but what the f*ck, so here goes. Do you really think that you are the only person on this message board who has ever had to deal with sh*t in their life? A dying loved one. A marriage exploding. Losing your job? Going bankrupt? Losing your house? Having your identity stolen and your credit trashed? What about two, or even three of the above at once? You actually think that the people here who don't think it is okay to be the target of the couple's aggression have all led magically blessed lives without so much as a single bump in the road?greenetree said:
I think this isn't a debate worth having. Those of us who have been in that horrible place know. It can't be explained, nor would anyone who hasn't been there ever, ever, EVER be able to imagine it.
My wish for those of you who don't have any idea is that you live a life and marriage that forever enshrines your uninformed, sanctimonious certainty on the subject.
spontaneous said:
You actually think that the people here who don't think it is okay to be the target of the couple's aggression have all led magically blessed lives without so much as a single bump in the road?greenetree said:
I think this isn't a debate worth having. Those of us who have been in that horrible place know. It can't be explained, nor would anyone who hasn't been there ever, ever, EVER be able to imagine it.
My wish for those of you who don't have any idea is that you live a life and marriage that forever enshrines your uninformed, sanctimonious certainty on the subject.
^^^ this ..
And I'm sure the answer is no.
Hello all, the season of house guests is once again upon us. Oh joy....
I should "fess up " a wee bit and confess that my less-than-perfect house guests last summer were, indeed, family members. They travelled from overseas to see us and then melted down before our eyes.
Here we are one year later. They have been separated for 10 months and one half of the couple has made the painful decision to dissolve their 25+ year marriage.
That said, the "related" half of the couple is returning to our summer place in a matter of weeks. She is still in deep, deep, deep mourning over the relationship. So much so that every single phone call or email is preceded by the time stamp of "it has been x months since I last spoke to my husband" or "x months ago my husband threw away our marriage". In theory, she has a counselor and she has close female friends to confide in. She chooses, instead, to call me.
At what point am I allowed to say "SHUT THE F*CK UP!"?
I know, I know, everyone goes at their own speed, but seriously, this gal is NOT moving ahead in any way, shape or form. I know it was traumatic for her (trust me - I heard everything) but she has a very rich, busy , well-provided for life.
When am I - a married-in family member - allowed to give her a virtual "slap" into reality?! I am so sick of hearing her rehash every phrase, every thought, every clue, every glance .... (Why she calls ME is a mystery. I have got to be the least "comforting" family member she has!) Yet, my matter-of-fact comments about what she should be doing (HELLO - hire a lawyer!) seem to be landing on deaf ears.
Recently, rather then engage her, I sent her the whole eloquent Sheryl Sandberg essay about losing her husband and how after 90 days she was "choosing life". It made no impact what so ever.
My SIL is coming to visit me at the beach again in a matter of weeks, but without her (I imagine )soon-to-be ex-husband this time. She has already bemoaned to me - in no uncertain terms - how difficult it will be to stay in our beach house because of the memories it will create.
WTF! Good lord, give me strength....
Other than to my own children, I confess that I am the most inadequate care-giver and "soother of souls" on this planet. Please, just let me just enjoy my summer get-away in peace and quiet without unnecessary drama...
- Well, this is probably notvery good advice, but I would tell her you want her to enjoy here visit, so sorry about the breakup, but you have heard it all, and she needs to stop with rehashing all the events, and get over it. But I am a pretty blunt person, especially with those I know well. Edited to add...it is your vacation too
@emmie,
Yeah, I am going to have to "politely" lay some ground rules once she is in my house (again.)
Rule 1: No more conversations with me filled with self-pity. Enough.
The situation is complicated further by her decision to bring her young grandson (8 years old) along to "keep her from thinking about the break-up". It is my own personal opinion that this is wrong for so many reasons....
Plus, who the heck is going to end up caring for that lovely young man when she is just "too upset"? Me and my three daughters!
Sounds like a plan, but also sounds like she is going to suck the life and energy out of you and the eight year old, for totally selfish purposes, and exploiting all involved, too bad you just can't say you are under quarantine for MERS, or even better, tell her you have bed bugs outbreak, LOL, okay, I have gone too far now. (wicked evil smiling devil
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Hallelujah!