Hillary Clinton

Well good for Bernie, because now a number of them are starting to heckle him in addition to protesting the Clintonistas.  

Unless he's figured out how to put a genie back in the bottle, it looks like he's gonna have to live with a bit of both for a while.  It's rough when you find that your hero, who you've tirelessly supported, is a sellout, even if he's doing it for the 'right reasons'.  It's enough to want to make you want to stay home on election day.

ice said:

It's rough when you find that your hero, who you've tirelessly supported, is a sellout, even if he's doing it for the 'right reasons'.

Channeling "the Donald"?

Yeah, OK.  None of Bernie's supporters think he sold them out.  It's just Trump saying so.  That's why Bernie is getting booed at the Democratic convention?  Because Trump told them to boo.  Nice try.

Maybe it's because at the same time it has been shown that the Democratic machine was running him over during the primaries, he's asking his supporters to shut up about it.

ice said:

Yeah, OK.  None of Bernie's supporters think he sold them out.  It's just Trump saying so.  That's why Bernie is getting booed at the Democratic convention?  Because Trump told them to boo.  Nice try.

But "Bernie sold us out" is a ridiculous position.  They think they're "More Bernie Than Bernie", and if their actions are congruent with Trump's rants, that's just pointing out a truth.

I didn't say it's incongruent.  And I'm not saying bernie's supporters are, or ever were, reasonable.

But they are upset with him and more upset at the DNC... that's bad news for folks who are worried about a Trump presidency.  And its quite independent from what The Donald is saying.

drummerboy said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

drummerboy said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

drummerboy said:

So, tell us all about her corruption. We're all ears.

 "> That's what I thought.

You thought what? That I was going to ask you to support your claims?

That's funny?

We're still waiting.

Who's "we"? Got a frog in your pocket? ">

Look man, you started this thread with a list, incomplete though it is, of Hillary's many...uh, challenges, reminding all and every of some tawdry situation they prob forgot about, on the day the convention kicks off. 

You want to keep this thread going, great! But if you're trying to help Hillary, (sotto voce) psst! You're doing it wrong!

what I'm doing is asking for people like you to actually make a case that ANY of the accusations against Hillary are substantial.

Then you know, we can discuss it.

If you don't want to put your money where your mouth is, well..

The point is, of course, that 99% of what's been tossed at Hillary is complete b.s. If you think otherwise, explain yourself.

Or you can just be smug and self-satisfied at your cleverness.

Your choice.

Option B!

eliz said:

So the BernieBros just chanted TPP over Rep Elijah Cummings talking about Black Lives Matter. 

I had to switch to C Span to hear his speech. The pundits talked right over him.

BernieBros do not exist.  That was something the DNC made up to make Bernie look bad.  You can stop it now.  Insulting.

nan said:

BernieBros do not exist.  That was something the DNC made up to make Bernie look bad.  You can stop it now.  Insulting.

Video of non-existent people booing the invocation at the DNC.

https://youtu.be/JpTApTVIeIs

I would sincerely like to punch some off these Bernie a$$holes in the face. "Lock her up"? Are you fu

That is being proven wrong today.  

nan said:

BernieBros do not exist.  That was something the DNC made up to make Bernie look bad.  You can stop it now.  Insulting.

nohero said:

nan said:

BernieBros do not exist.  That was something the DNC made up to make Bernie look bad.  You can stop it now.  Insulting.

Video of non-existent people booing the invocation at the DNC.

They are Bernie supporters.  I'm objecting to the divisive term, "Berniebro."   They are understandably upset, since Clinton won with unfair advantages (and voter fraud that is still being investigated--I know you all think that's not true, but you all also discounted the bias of the DNC) and is now losing to Trump.  Bernie is the best candidate to beat Trump.  So, yeah, they are upset about Trump winning too.  Give them a break.  Or keep attacking them and watch how they vote for Clinton (not).

I guess we now blame the DNC for everything we don't like.

nan said:

BernieBros do not exist.  That was something the DNC made up to make Bernie look bad.  You can stop it now.  Insulting.

Sadly they do.  

When Bernie asks his supporters to come together and join him and they turn against him, that makes me sad and (worse) afraid.  

I supported and voted for Bernie and I still support him.  But he is right - making sure Trump doesn't win is the most important goal right now.  And the way to continue the revolution is to run in and/or work hard for the local and statewide races, support Hillary Clinton for President and then keep on working for "the cause" beyond November.

dave23 said:

I guess we now blame the DNC for everything we don't like.

--------------------

You can do what you want.  It's a free country.

Yes and we can call out when a bunch of rude idiots chant TPP over Elijah Cummings talking about his sharecropper parents, or boo Sanders, or have Nina Turner talking about how we have to "acknowledge their pain".  Meantime, every Clinton surrogate is up there speaking glowingly of Bernie (the guy who lost) and these special snowflakes just want to burn it down.

nan said:

You can do what you want.  It's a free country.

sac said:

nan said:

BernieBros do not exist.  That was something the DNC made up to make Bernie look bad.  You can stop it now.  Insulting.

Sadly they do.  

When Bernie asks his supporters to come together and join him and they turn against him, that makes me sad and (worse) afraid.  

I supported and voted for Bernie and I still support him.  But he is right - making sure Trump doesn't win is the most important goal right now.  And the way to continue the revolution is to run in and/or work hard for the local and statewide races, support Hillary Clinton for President and then keep on working for "the cause" beyond November.

They have a legitimate gripe.  Hillary's response was to give DWS another job and blame it on the Russians.  She has put her campaign focus on attracting centrists and Republicans.  So, I'm not surprised by the response.  You treat people like crap and they don't usually support or vote for you, unless you are Donald J. Trump, the populist leader.  

Whether their gripe is legitimate is a separate issue from whether their behavior is infantile and entitled. What a bunch of spoiled children.

Its sad that a moment in history that women have hoped for is tainted. We are all upset by the current political climate. There is enough blame to go around. Many of the voters on both sides are furious, the candidates are not living up to our expectations and we are all pointing fingers and either threatening to withhold our votes, cast protest votes or  vote out of disdain for the opposition. It's sad and I share everyone's frustration but I just keep hoping that there will be a moment this week when everyone recognizes that something unique and wonderful has occurred. A woman has been nominated for President of the United States. "You've come a long way baby." (borrowed from an ad that claimed we should smoke a thinner cigarette to demonstrate our liberation.)

nan said:

They have a legitimate gripe.  Hillary's response was to give DWS another job and blame it on the Russians.  She has put her campaign focus on attracting centrists and Republicans.  So, I'm not surprised by the response.  You treat people like crap and they don't usually support or vote for you, unless you are Donald J. Trump, the populist leader.  

That "job" is really just a courtesy (which you can certainly legitimately protest, but she really has no real role in the campaign ... it's "honorary".)

I think that the Russian angle is not just a blame game.  That doesn't excuse the emails, but it appears likely that the Russians are messing with our election process and that should be a matter of concern to all of us.

And Kaine is a lot more liberal than I first thought.  I disagree with him re TPP and support for Wall Street, but on all other issues I've read about, he seems to bat a thousand on liberal positions.  (Yes, I know that he says he is personally against abortion, but his voting record is 100% pro-choice.  That is the whole point of being pro-choice - keeping reproductive care decisions private and according to personal morals or faith, not subject to government interference.)  But, yes, he is likely to attract centrists and Republicans.  And in this election, that is pretty darn important and I'm seeing evidence among centrists and Republicans that I know that it is already working.  Not to mention the concern about naming a Democrat from a state with a Republican governor (e.g. Warren, Booker) and risk losing ground in the Senate.

But the biggest issue to me is that Bernie has laid out a way forward and a non-trivial segment of his supporters are booing him and turning away from him, when HE is the leading injured party.  If he can rise above it, why can't they?

Kaine is no progressive and he supports the TPP and is a Wall Street guy.  Just read on a Robert Reich post that the big Wall Street guns have arrived at the convention to cheer for Hillary, their girl.  You'd think they would want to be discreet, especially Goldman Sachs, but when you think you rule the world, who cares what others say.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/hillary-clinton-wall-street-226061

Reich had this to say (I don't know how to link his FB posts): "I don't know about you, but this makes me anxious. The 2016 election is less about left versus right than it is about anti-establishment versus establishment. The last thing the Democrats need right now is the conspicuous presence of Wall Street and “Rubin Democrats” at their convention."

nan said:

Kaine is no progressive 

I don't think it is possible to get a lifetime zero rating from the American Conservative Union without being a progressive.

dave23 said:

I guess we now blame the DNC for everything we don't like.

No.............I don't like pickles on my hamburger and I do not blame the DNC

Of course I expect them to act with neutrality, and integrity which they have not done

but they will get away with such moral lapses.   But pickles on hamburgers...........even they would not

stoop so low

sac said:

nan said:

Kaine is no progressive 

I don't think it is possible to get a lifetime zero rating from the American Conservative Union without being a progressive.

He's not a Progressive. He's a neoliberal like Hillary and Obama.  Wall Street loves him.  He's progressive to people already voting for Hillary,  who also claims to be progressive when convenient. 

nan said:

sac said:

nan said:

Kaine is no progressive 

I don't think it is possible to get a lifetime zero rating from the American Conservative Union without being a progressive.

He's not a Progressive. He's a neoliberal like Hillary and Obama.  Wall Street loves him.  He's progressive to people already voting for Hillary,  who also claims to be progressive when convenient. 

Well, Bernie is voting for Hillary.

Ah, the all too predictable Circling of the Wagons. Yep.  Hillary is a bastion of principle...sure.  She gets huge speaking fees from big wall street firms and the like because she's such an engaging speaker.  Bill got a $750 K for a less than 30 minute speech w/ Ericsson and it had absolutely nothing to do with her ability to influence in the WH.  Sure.

I think part of the problem is that so much of this is considered ethical by the oligarchs that others probably look at it and say "meh.  Ethics are only for those that challenge us." 

You guys would circle the wagons around Pol Pot if it meant getting a Dem in the WH over Trump.  You don't want Trump.  I get it.  But that doesn't make Hillary *****ing Clinton ethical all of a sudden. 

I'm also waiting for the perfect Libertarian candidate. 

sac said:

nan said:

sac said:

nan said:

Kaine is no progressive 

I don't think it is possible to get a lifetime zero rating from the American Conservative Union without being a progressive.

He's not a Progressive. He's a neoliberal like Hillary and Obama.  Wall Street loves him.  He's progressive to people already voting for Hillary,  who also claims to be progressive when convenient. 

Well, Bernie is voting for Hillary.

So?  Bernie was asked about Kaine and he said he was a nice guy, but more conservative than himself and he would have preferred Elizabeth Warren.

Morganna said:

Its sad that a moment in history that women have hoped for is tainted. We are all upset by the current political climate. There is enough blame to go around. Many of the voters on both sides are furious, the candidates are not living up to our expectations and we are all pointing fingers and either threatening to withhold our votes, cast protest votes or  vote out of disdain for the opposition. It's sad and I share everyone's frustration but I just keep hoping that there will be a moment this week when everyone recognizes that something unique and wonderful has occurred. A woman has been nominated for President of the United States. "You've come a long way baby." (borrowed from an ad that claimed we should smoke a thinner cigarette to demonstrate our liberation.)

It is a sad moment for women that HRC was the first woman nominated by the Democratic Party. Margaret Thatcher, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Imelda Marcos, Sarah Palin, et. al. are women, and I want not a single one of them near the presidency. Why not vote for Jill Stein if you want a woman with truly progressive positions to be elected?

Alfa75 said:
Why not vote for Jill Stein if you want a woman with truly progressive positions to be elected?

Because our current two-party system (which most certainly needs reform) means that she won't be elected.