Harvey Weinstein, et tu?

Recently watched the highly praised but little seen movie "Don't Think Twice."  Stars Key, of Key and Peele, and some other stand up comics portraying an improv comedy troupe.  The movie is about their individual dreams/obsessions/petty jealousies about getting on an SNL-like live comedy show.  I don't know if L. Michaels has a reputation as an a-hole in real life but the Michaels character on the SNL-like show is skewered wonderfully as an affected prick.

The_Soulful_Mr_T said:

ElizMcCord said:

truth said:

Reportedly Saturday Night Live had a number of jokes and 2 bits on Mr. Weinstein but Lorne Michaels said "No". 

If that is true it is interesting for a program that claims to pull no punches.

I think a lot of Hollywood players owe their careers to Harvey Weinstein. They’re not going to go there. 

According to what I read, Lorne Michaels opined that this was a "New York story," not a national one so it didn't have a place on SNL. 

BS? You make the call.

I call BS. The term casting stones and glass houses comes to mind. They all have their secrets. Who want to skewer Harvey Weinstein their own skeletons are just a disgruntled intern with a smart phone away, from being out on the internet? Besides this will lose traction by the next news cycle and with Trump, that won’t be long.  

I don't know what was behind SNL's decision, but in fairness it was a story that broke late in the week. My sense is that much of the show is developed by Thursday or Friday. And it's possible that the planned jokes just weren't funny. Tons of jokes and skits discussed for the show never make the air for any number of reasons, mostly because they don't "work" as being funny for a broad audience.

I do think this story was an open secret for many years, and responsibility for telling it lies far beyond SNL.

interesting perspective:  http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-human-stain-why-the-harvey-weinstein-story-is-worse-than-you-think/article/2009995

apple44 said:

I don't know what was behind SNL's decision, but in fairness it was a story that broke late in the week. My sense is that much of the show is developed by Thursday or Friday. And it's possible that the planned jokes just weren't funny. Tons of jokes and skits discussed for the show never make the air for any number of reasons, mostly because they don't "work" as being funny for a broad audience.

I do think this story was an open secret for many years, and responsibility for telling it lies far beyond SNL.

The article I read said that the Weinstein jokes did't play well in front of the rehearsal audience. Who knows. 

Is this issue really bringing out all of MOL's lurking conservatives or are these folks just assorted Zoinks logins?

bub said:

Recently watched the highly praised but little seen movie "Don't Think Twice."  Stars Key, of Key and Peele, and some other stand up comics portraying an improv comedy troupe.  The movie is about their individual dreams/obsessions/petty jealousies about getting on an SNL-like live comedy show.  I don't know if L. Michaels has a reputation as an a-hole in real life but the Michaels character on the SNL-like show is skewered wonderfully as an affected prick.

Mike Myers got the mannerisms for Dr. Evil in the "Austin Powers" movies from the impressions that Dana Carvey would do of Michaels.

An OpEd from the NYT: Lena Dunham: Harvey Weinstein and the Silence of the Men

Add Gwyneth Paltrow, Rosanna Arquette, and Angelina Jolie to the list of women: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/us/gwyneth-paltrow-angelina-jolie-harvey-weinstein.html

1010 WINS says Mira Sorvino was harassed as well.

"Casting couch" is a phrase that's been around a long time. 

Go to this link and listen to the tape. Weinstein was target of a sting in 2015 by NYPD.

What a freaking scumbag.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/10/media/harvey-weinstein-new-yorker-magazine/index.html

so, all of these top actresses plus some of their superstar boyfriends/ friends knew about this for 25 years and no one said anything, no one filed a complaint, zip? That's really shocking and terrible. These weren't completely green actresses- they were pretty big stars from established a Hollywood families. Brad Pitt was a mega-star when he dated Gwyneth. While the blame and my most serious feelings of disgust are for Harvey, I can't help but think a bit less of some of these folks.

conandrob240 said:

so, all of these top actresses plus some of their superstar boyfriends/ friends knew about this for 25 years and no one said anything, no one filed a complaint, zip? That's really shocking and terrible. These weren't completely green actresses- they were pretty big stars from established a Hollywood families. Brad Pitt was a mega-star when he dated Gwyneth. While the blame and my most serious feelings of disgust are for Harvey, I can't help but think a bit less of some of these folks.

YES!!! This is what's bugging me. Why now? Like when it suited your career to stay silent you said nothing even though it would've warned new comers  to the scene of his antics.  But now that Harvey Weinstein has made your careers (Affleck, Winslet, Jolie, Clooney, etc) now you're outraged?  Shocked? It's unconscionable yet you knew the whole time? I'm not defending the douchebag Weinstein but really? Why now? Because they have the strength in numbers? I can't stand hypocrisy. End of rant. 

I really agree. They can play the young starlet card but, in the 25 freakin' years since then with all of your power and money, it didn't occur to anyone to do more than "not work with him" or "try to warn others"? Give me a break. Disgusting.

It is terrible, but not shocking.  This sh*t has been going on way too long.  

Sweetsnuggles said:

It is terrible, but not shocking.  This sh*t has been going on way too long.  

What's sad is it will continue. For as long as there's an unknown actor/actress desperate to get a break someone will be taken advantage of. What % of actors are actually making a livable wage? Hollywood is notorious for being close knit. You don't sh!t where you eat. You open your mouth you're out. Why did Jolie wait until now? Lawrence? Winslet?  Rose McGowan will rarely work again if at all, at least not in any significant role she doesn't produce by herself. Until more women and men are willing to come out and expose the shenanigans, it will be business as usual by weeks' end. 

They need to come out from the get go. 

conandrob240 said:

I really agree. They can play the young starlet card but, in the 25 freakin' years since then with all of your power and money, it didn't occur to anyone to do more than "not work with him" or "try to warn others"? Give me a break. Disgusting.

And Gwyneth made another movie with Weinstein AFTER he harassed her during the filming of Emma.  She's extremely well-connected in Hollywood; Steven Spielberg is her godfather.

This happens all the time in closed communities.  Just look at the Catholic Church.  For years it was taboo to mention clerical rape and that silence enabled the perpetrators.  Then, things changed and a flood of accusations came forth.

I am not sure that attacking the victims is really the way to go here.

erins said:

conandrob240 said:

I really agree. They can play the young starlet card but, in the 25 freakin' years since then with all of your power and money, it didn't occur to anyone to do more than "not work with him" or "try to warn others"? Give me a break. Disgusting.

And Gwyneth made another movie with Weinstein AFTER he harassed her during the filming of Emma.  She's extremely well-connected in Hollywood; Steven Spielberg is her godfather.

I'm not surprised she's coming out now. What gluten free item is she hawking now? If there ever was a self serving actress, it's  Gwyneth. 

If you wonder why women don't come forward more often, just look at the attacks they are enduring on social media today. 

Klinker said:

This happens all the time in closed communities.  Just look at the Catholic Church.  For years it was taboo to mention clerical rape and that silence enabled the perpetrators.  Then, things changed and a flood of accusations came forth.

I am not sure that attacking the victims is really the way to go here.

I see your point and it's a good one. Attacking the victim is no way to go. What I'm (speaking for myself) is victims being quiet all along while it served their purpose of pursing their careers and then now when there's a crowd to hide behind and their careers have gained traction suddenly have the courage to speak out. You can't have it both ways. Either you're outraged or you're not, like Rose McGowan. Harvey Weinstein is a first class douche no doubt, but he had enablers. Meryl and Kate can speak now they're untouchable. Which other no-name actress is going to come out? I'm surprised the alcoholic, serial adulterer and gambler Aflleck is speaking now.  Where was he when Weinstein was producing Good Will Hunting? I'm glad Matt Damon has the good sense to stay out of it. Then again he was the Harvard attendee. 

Harvey Weinstein's wife is Georgina Chapman. If any of you watch Project Runway she is often on as a judge.She is British ,involved in fashion and theater and very lovely. They have two little children.

This audio is so freaking disturbing. He doesn't raise his voice, even when pleading, yet he is menacing. Referring to himself as Ambra Battilana's "friend" is a predator's way of making you feel at ease, even when they are being menacing. 

http://video.newyorker.com/watch/harvey-weinstein-caught-on-tape

dave23 said:

If you wonder why women don't come forward more often, just look at the attacks they are enduring on social media today. 

Your point doesn't go unnoticed, it is a good one.  But in this world today (of social media) you just can't have it both ways. Either you're out or you aren't. You can't reap the benefit of social media yet want to be immune from its negative influences. 

no one's attacking the victim. What they endured was horrible. The fact that they chose to not discuss it years after it happened when they were in positions of power and influence , choosing instead to let it happen to countless others, is disgusting.

I'm not here for blaming women for this man's predatory behavior. The blame belongs squarely on him and the board of his company (all men btw).

I have worked closely with many victims, as well as with alleged perpetrators, of sexual assault on college campuses.  The dynamics involved in making the decision to report are complicated and fraught with conflicting emotions.  The one thing I've heard from many who made the decision to report was "I am doing this because I don't want others to be victimized in the same way."  But, many others  - for a variety of personal reasons - want desperately to place this horrific event and the associated emotions in a box and bury it as deeply in their subconscious as possible. Some doubt they will be taken seriously, some don't want others passing judgment on their personal lives, some just need time to process what was an unimaginable event, and many believe they will be tainted in the court of public opinion as much as the alleged perpetrator may be.  This extends to concerns about careers, etc. such as "who will hire me if they think I'm trouble" and, for many college students, fear about the reactions of their parents.

Okay, Hollywood is not a college campus...I get that.  But, my guess is that the human dynamics aren't all that different. I am no fan of Hollywood and the whole movie star thing but I cannot fault someone for making what is a very critical personal decision whether to come forward or not.  Seeing accusatory post hoc judgments applied to others who have or have not come forward often serves to endorse the reasons more victims don't come forward.  What I don't talk about can't hurt me.  But, there is strength and comfort in numbers. We saw that with Bill Cosby.  When others are willing to come forward, it helps to alleviate suspicions of "maybe I was the only one".  It's also always a lot easier to sing in a choir than solo.

ElizMcCord said:

dave23 said:

If you wonder why women don't come forward more often, just look at the attacks they are enduring on social media today. 

Your point doesn't go unnoticed, it is a good one.  But in this world today (of social media) you just can't have it both ways. Either you're out or you aren't. You can't reap the benefit of social media yet want to be immune from its negative influences. 

Just because you want to use social media for personal and professional reasons doesn't mean you should be required to endure the kind of abuse many women are subject to. That's similar to Weinstein's reasoning: This is how business is done around here.

Norman_Bates said:

I have worked closely with many victims, as well as with alleged perpetrators, of sexual assault on college campuses.  The dynamics involved in making the decision to report are complicated and fraught with conflicting emotions.  The one thing I've heard from many who made the decision to report was "I am doing this because I don't want others to be victimized in the same way."  But, many others  - for a variety of personal reasons - want desperately to place this horrific event and the associated emotions in a box and bury it as deeply in their subconscious as possible. Some doubt they will be taken seriously, some don't want others passing judgment on their personal lives, some just need time to process what was an unimaginable event, and many believe they will be tainted in the court of public opinion as much as the alleged perpetrator may be.  This extends to concerns about careers, etc. such as "who will hire me if they think I'm trouble" and, for many college students, fear about the reactions of their parents.

Okay, Hollywood is not a college campus...I get that.  But, my guess is that the human dynamics aren't all that different. I am no fan of Hollywood and the whole movie star thing but I cannot fault someone for making what is a very critical personal decision whether to come forward or not.  Seeing accusatory post hoc judgments applied to others who have or have not come forward often serves to endorse the reasons more victims don't come forward.  What I don't talk about can't hurt me.  But, there is strength and comfort in numbers. We saw that with Bill Cosby.  When others are willing to come forward, it helps to alleviate suspicions of "maybe I was the only one".  It's also always a lot easier to sing in a choir than solo.

Well said. Also, someone like Weinstein has an entire PR machine to slime the accuser should they come forward. At a certain point, these women see now positive outcome: Their careers get destroyed, they are humiliated in public and Weinstein walks free.

Blaming the victim means implying they did something to warrant his attacks or the crime perpetrated against them. They did not. They are blameless.

Now, another debate is whether they -not just the female victims but also males that knew about this and turned a blind eye- are somehow guilty of something. I think they are.