Handling food orders without gloves

ctrzaska said:

ParticleMan said:
Chip and signature just reduces cars duplication. Since no one checks to see if signatures match, it's completely useless to verify that the cardholder is the owner.
On the other hand, I've had several recent occasions where a clerk has asked me for ID since the signature bar on my card has completely worn away.

In the last two weeks in the UK I always had my signature checked. Always. And on several occasions in shopsI've had to wait for a manager to authorize over and above the cashier. They do check. As to chip and pin, almost all of my cards have it and yet the only fraud I've ever had (except for one situation) has been when not in the US. Go figure.

I should have specified in the US.

They always check your signature in the UK. I can probably count on my hands how many times my signature has been checked in the US in the 17 years I've lived here.

alias said:
For me, food safety laws are analogous to speed limit laws.
Both exist for the safety of the public.
Everyone has a different threshold of acceptance for variance with the law.

To a Health Inspector this is a VIOLATION and the establishment would be cited.

imonlysleeping said:

sportsnut said:

People survived thousands of years without latex gloves or hand sanitizer. Its only gross because people tell you that it is.

Humanity may have survived, but plenty of individuals got very sick or even died from food-borne illness along the way. The human race also survived many years of pouring raw sewage into the street, eating off of lead plates, unsanitized surgical instruments, etc., and I don't think anybody would argue in favor of those bad practices. Just because you've never gotten sick before doesn't mean you never will. And don't tell me what I find gross, thanks very much.

^This.

Typhoid Mary spread typhoid fever by working in kitchens.

ETA: http://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-typhoid-mary

It's a wonder some of you cross the street.

Some of these posts remind me of when seatbelt laws were introduced and some people were like, "seatbelts are for wimps." They thought they were being cool and above it all, but actually they just sounded not so bright. Hand hygiene is actually important, especially for food preparers (and really extra especially for medical professionals). Mock it if you like, but don't think your condescention has any effect on those of us who care about basic food safety.

Well said @imonlysleeping.

I'm not advocating food service workers foregoing hand washing, but unlike seat belts there is such a thing as too much when it comes to hygiene

spontaneous said:
I'm not advocating food service workers foregoing hand washing, but unlike seat belts there is such a thing as too much when it comes to hygiene

Maybe, but washing your hands before you touch food--which is what we're discussing here--is not in that category.

Red_Barchetta said:
It's a wonder some of you cross the street.

Really.

Of course it makes sense to wear a seatbelt, I mean it is right there at your disposal. And of course we'd all prefer that our food handlers wear gloves.

Having that preference is in a different category than publicly proposing that an establishment should be cited by health officials, that their establishment is gross, or that you'll never go there again.

I'm not a nut except that I do wash my hands often. This is mostly because i have allergies and I often rub my eyes. So I try to keep my hands clean if I'm going to do that.

Today I stopped at a Dunkin Donuts and the person who took my order actually rubbed her eye or her face before she picked up my donuts. But because she picked up the donuts using the paper I didn't think that was a big deal. But she is still handling money and stuff and she wasn't wearing gloves either. But she also wasn't preparing the food so once again I guess that's okay.

Tom_R said:
Thanks.
I hadn't known that there was a State Law regarding bare hand contact with ready to eat foods.
Although, I do wonder how we survived before gloves became the norm.
TomR

I believe there have been improvements in public health since the health regulations were enacted, so "survive" is a relative term. If you haven't been aware of the benefit of this rule, that doesn't mean it's not useful.

I'm far from a germophobe. In fact, I do things others wouldn't do. I don't usually wash my fruit before eating. I sometimes don't wash food before cooking it for myself or my family. I shake hands with people without precaution. I kiss people. I sometimes don't wash hands before eating. These are my decisions for myself.

But professional food handlers are and should be held to a higher standard. They are handling food for many people. The decision is not and should not be in their hands. The fact that most of us will survive if they violate the rules is missing the point.

Some places have laws that require one person to handle food and another to handle the money. I wish we had that law in this part of the US. Money is particularly germy, and this is coming from a non-germophobe. I handle money and don't wash my hands afterwards, but I want a professional to do so, because the professional handles food for many people and should not have discretion in the matter.

Red_Barchetta said:


Having that preference is in a different category than publicly proposing that an establishment should be cited by health officials, that their establishment is gross, or that you'll never go there again.

The health code isn't a "preference," it's the law.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/08/22/national/gloves-come-off-again-for-sushi-chefs-in-california/#.VgFta1LXfCQ

dave said:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/08/22/national/gloves-come-off-again-for-sushi-chefs-in-california/#.VgFta1LXfCQ

Interesting .. I can see this chef point of view and it's a valid one.

I wonder how many plastic gloves go into landfills every day.

One can never be too safe.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFC0O393DQ

Red_Barchetta said:
I wonder how many plastic gloves go into landfills every day.

Most companies who make these gloves are using biodegradable material and the Polyethylene (Poly) gloves are now recyclable.

A chef-consultant weighs in:

According to a 2007 study
in the Journal of Food Protection, “Hand washing and glove use were
also related to each other — hand washing was less likely to occur with
activities in which gloves were worn.” A 2010 study
in the same journal concludes, “Glove use can create a false sense of
security, resulting in more high-risk behaviors that can lead to
cross-contamination when employees are not adequately trained.

From a Washington Post article.

A little perspective goes a long way.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/SanitationTransportation/ucm056174.htm

Wouldn't it be acceptable to use a utensil to add a tomato instead of gloves? sounds more practical than changing gloves for every little thing...

I often use the credit card at the drive thru...where you have to hand the card to the worker...and there are some other places...villa pizza at menlo mall, the pretzel places, dairy queen, etc that don't have a card reader for the customer.

actually, hand sanitizer supposedly do work on virus http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20130208/hand-sanitizers-germs

''Alcohol-based hand sanitizers are clearly a very useful and important method to prevent most bacterial and viral infections,

the big problem is over use, causing the germs to mutate...and become resistant to sanitizers

They almost never check signatures where I shop....a couple places (low end discount!) will ask for ID for even small purchases. I used to sign the reciepts with a cartoon character name...and no one ever noticed

Hand sanitizers generally aren't effective against norovirus, which is what the previous poster was saying. They are effective against cold and flu viruses. The idea that alcohol-based hand sanitizers causes germs to mutate into alcohol-resistant superbugs is a myth. Some less-effective antibacterial products (like dish soap) can do this, but not high-alchohol hand sanitizers like Purell.

This is a tough thread to follow. Credit cards, and food handling. Or credit cards and food handling.

ParticleMan said:
Chip and signature just reduces card duplication. Since no one checks to see if signatures match, it's completely useless to verify that the cardholder is the owner.
On the other hand, I've had several recent occasions where a clerk has asked me for ID since the signature bar on my card has completely worn away.

In some parts of the country they always ask for ID when you pay with a credit card. When I mention that this rarely happens where I live, they are always surprised.

phenixrising said:

Red_Barchetta said:
I wonder how many plastic gloves go into landfills every day.

Most companies who make these gloves are using biodegradable material and the Polyethylene (Poly) gloves are now recyclable. ">

That's great news. I just hope someone is picking them out of the trash can with the lettuce, tomato, cheese, and turkey bits thrown into it.