fox and falcon
I think this is the liveliest non-political thread in the last several months.
apple44 said:
bets said:Not understanding this. The chef previously worked at Del Posto in the city. If he can't make a good sauce, that would be pretty incredible.
What worries me is the slider offering - the "Sunday sauce" leads me to believe they are produced from a local, easily obtainable frozen source.
Meatballs and Sunday Sauce are produced and sold (frozen) by a local guy and are available for $6.99 in your supermarket freezer.
bets said:
apple44 said:Meatballs and Sunday Sauce are produced and sold (frozen) by a local guy and are available for $6.99 in your supermarket freezer.
bets said:Not understanding this. The chef previously worked at Del Posto in the city. If he can't make a good sauce, that would be pretty incredible.
What worries me is the slider offering - the "Sunday sauce" leads me to believe they are produced from a local, easily obtainable frozen source.
I'm aware of that. But do you really think that a chef from Del Posto buys frozen sauce from a supermarket and puts it on his menu?
apple44 said:
I'm aware of that. But do you really think that a chef from Del Posto buys frozen sauce from a supermarket and puts it on his menu?
Dunno. But the fact that he buys machine-formed burger patties might be an indication. Personally, if I were serving burgers (and I've posted this before on the burger thread), I'd buy the cuts I wanted, grind and hand-form them in-house. There is a world of difference in taste and kitchen-prep labor isn't that expensive.
Is there (yes I’m asking this) a possibility, that they’re just buying the meat-mix in bulk and making the burgers themselves on premises? I know the Pat LaFrieda factory is near us.
ridski said:
Is there (yes I’m asking this) a possibility, that they’re just buying the meat-mix in bulk and making the burgers themselves on premises? I know the Pat LaFrieda factory is near us.
We ordered 3 burgers and based on the uniformity, perfect hockey-puck appearance, hard-packed density, my guess is no.
bets said:
apple44 said:Meatballs and Sunday Sauce are produced and sold (frozen) by a local guy and are available for $6.99 in your supermarket freezer.
bets said:Not understanding this. The chef previously worked at Del Posto in the city. If he can't make a good sauce, that would be pretty incredible.
What worries me is the slider offering - the "Sunday sauce" leads me to believe they are produced from a local, easily obtainable frozen source.
I don't even eat meatballs but thinking that what I can get from the frozen section at Costco can be put on a menu at such a high markup is upsetting.
(Note to self, put meatballs and homemade sauce sliders on Christmas and New Years menu)
shh said:
bets said:I don't even eat meatballs but thinking that what I can get from the frozen section at Costco can be put on a menu at such a high markup is upsetting.
Meatballs and Sunday Sauce are produced and sold (frozen) by a local guy and are available for $6.99 in your supermarket freezer.
I wouldn’t get upset yet. “Meatballs and Sunday sauce” is a common term, not a trademark some local guy owns. As apple44 noted, there’s no reason to assume that what’s sold in a store and what’s served at F&F are the same.
@DaveSchmidt, I'm not upset. I was hoping it would be a place we could go, but I'd rather buy my own $20-30 bottle of wine and go to Lorena's (when we can) or Boccone, or another place where I can get a well prepared fish entree and a pleasant atmosphere. Hell, we've had great fish at Munchie's, $15 for a huge plate and we BYO. guess what, that Branzino is snapper or sea bass at Munchie's.
Is the beef from Scottish Highland cattle, which are antibiotic- and hormone-free? Those are the 18 buckers in Hong Kong.
Maybe the wine and the burger are overpriced. They've barely been open for a week and can adjust that.
Am just amazed at the level of pessimism here. This new place comes along, gives life to a place that was soon to be vacant (in a town where people are constantly complaining about the lack of great restaurants), and the owner and chef - both local residents - have very impressive resumes. People really believe that they are buying Dan Mancini's meatballs from a supermarket and putting them on their menu? The chef worked at Del Posto, one of the most highly regarded Italian restaurants in NYC and perhaps the country. Is it really unimaginable that he knows how to make sauce?
Here's some recent information about the "Mama Mancini's" brand meatball business.
https://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/02/prweb5034734.htm
The key word is brand. I think there would be a necessary mention if they were serving this specific brand of meatball with Sunday sauce on their sliders. Otherwise, I'd speculate they'd be vulnerable to some copyright issues, given how big "Mama's Meatballs" have become.
It would be so bad to do that, my first reaction is to doubt it. If true- shortest run ever in that spot, and the curse of the Stuft Shirt is proven to be a real thing.
jersey_boy said:
Here's some recent information about the "Mama Mancini's" brand meatball business.
https://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/02/prweb5034734.htm
The key word is brand. I think there would be a necessary mention if they were serving this specific brand of meatball with Sunday sauce on their sliders. Otherwise, I'd speculate they'd be vulnerable to some copyright issues, given how big "Mama's Meatballs" have become.
It would be so bad to do that, my first reaction is to doubt it. If true- shortest run ever in that spot, and the curse of the Stuft Shirt is proven to be a real thing.
Respectfully, not understanding your point. Of course the company's name is a brand but they don't have a trademark on the phrase "Sunday sauce," which is quite common and not tied to a specific recipe. Most food magazines (and grandmothers) have a unique recipe for Sunday sauce.
If people have had both dishes and say they taste similar, or they like Dan's better, that's fair. But instead people are speculating, based on absolutely nothing, that the chef is buying this stuff from the supermarket and putting it on his menu?
apple44 said:Respectfully, not understanding your point.
That brand is big enough now that a restaurant who wanted to use "Mama Mancin's" brand meatballs that they bought from them (a restaurant wouldn't by retail,) they would have to mention that brand. E.G. "Our Mama Mancini's Meatball Sliders."
Restaurants make and sell kraft macaroni on their kids menu, but they say it's a BRAND.
More simply: I'm doubtful of this conspiracy theory.
Thanks. I don't know the owner and chef, but they seem pretty straight up. Even if the Mancini brand was tiny, I think they'd give the guy credit.
apple44 said:
Thanks. I don't know the owner and chef, but they seem pretty straight up. Even if the Mancini brand was tiny, I think they'd give the guy credit.
That is exactly my intended point in my last two posts. Couldn't get it out clearly it two sentences as you did.
shh said:
Hell, we've had great fish at Munchie's, $15 for a huge plate and we BYO.
Me, too, minus the BYO. So far.
apple44 said:
Maybe the wine and the burger are overpriced. They've barely been open for a week and can adjust that.
Am just amazed at the level of pessimism here. This new place comes along, gives life to a place that was soon to be vacant (in a town where people are constantly complaining about the lack of great restaurants), and the owner and chef - both local residents - have very impressive resumes.
I'm not pessimistic, just posting the experience of my family and thoughts on how I think they can improve. From a service standpoint (restaurant, not the waiter) they definitely have the best approach of any restaurant in our towns that I have experienced. They are very kid friendly. I wish they more kid food options, smaller kid potions and thus a cheaper kid menu. Same philosophy for the wines by the glass. I will definitely go back to try dishes other than burger like the branzino.
Overall, it is a welcome addition to the dining scene IMO. It's still early, hopefully they will adjust and find their groove to cater to the locals.
lanky said:
I'm not pessimistic, just posting the experience of my family and thoughts on how I think they can improve. From a service standpoint (restaurant, not the waiter) they definitely have the best approach of any restaurant in our towns that I have experienced. They are very kid friendly. I wish they more kid food options, smaller kid potions and thus a cheaper kid menu. Same philosophy for the wines by the glass. I will definitely go back to try dishes other than burger like the branzino.
Overall, it is a welcome addition to the dining scene IMO. It's still early, hopefully they will adjust and find their groove to cater to the locals.
I don't think it's pessimistic if you've actually been there. But most of the comments here are coming from people who haven't yet set foot in the place, and some who likely never would have anyway. I'm sure if you started an MOL thread on Luna Stella, you'd get tons of negativity about a place that hasn't even finished construction yet. It's just the nature of online message boards.
David Massoni, the owner of The Fox and Falcon, lives in South Orange and is a partner in Three Kings Restaurant Group.
I wish any new restaurant in the area the best, even if its not for me, including the high "price point". It's a pricey burger by any measure. That $18 price prompted me to look at the Ledger's recent "best burger in each county" article. The burgers at the winner and runner ups for Essex County ranged from $7 to $16.
After reading this discussion I think everyone will want to give The Fox and Falcon a try.
lanky said:
I'm not pessimistic, just posting the experience of my family and thoughts on how I think they can improve. From a service standpoint (restaurant, not the waiter) they definitely have the best approach of any restaurant in our towns that I have experienced. They are very kid friendly. I wish they more kid food options, smaller kid potions and thus a cheaper kid menu. Same philosophy for the wines by the glass. I will definitely go back to try dishes other than burger like the branzino.
Overall, it is a welcome addition to the dining scene IMO. It's still early, hopefully they will adjust and find their groove to cater to the locals.
Agree. You ordered something, and it wasn't what you expected. That's fair. I was referring more to the assumption that because someone else nearby also makes meatballs and sauce, these new guys might be putting his stuff on their menu.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying the falcon. I hear it tastes like chicken. 
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Mustard was free! And don't forget it was accompanied by a large portion of fries, half of which I did not take home because they do not leftover that well...and because they are just fries.