Former US intelligence analysts: CIA allegations of Russian email hacking are baseless
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:
You've got it backwards. The bogus Russia story has dominated Democrats and real issues where Trump poses an existential threat -- like clean water, climate change and a nuclear arms race -- are given short shrift.
The single area where Trump is rational -- better relations with Russia -- is the single area where Democrats are in full-scale attack.
So there should be no concern when Trump says Putin is a better leader the Obama and we're no so innocent like Russia - these should be ignored? Better relations is a good thing - propping up Putin as the poster boy for who our leader admires is downright scary. It shows very bad judgement to the rest of the world. What other world leader had he given so many accolades to?
This isn't the only area where Democrats are in full scale attack, healthcare is currently high on the list as well.
I think it is important to hold Trump accountable on bread and butter issues. I am pretty sure that if Trump puts coal miners back to work, they will happily overlook everything else he does. I don't think he will fulfill any of his bread and butter campaign promises, but he will claim he did and it could be quite struggle to convince people otherwise.
paulsurovell said:
South_Mountaineer said:
jamie said:
Paul - I have to admit - Trump should hire you! You're as good if not better then Spicer, Kellyanne and Miller combined in regards to defending the Trump-Russian connection.
I guess we'll have to wait 90 days for the "Truth" to come out.
Trump needs self-described "progressives" to run interference. We're losing clean water protections today, via photo-op executive orders, but "EMAILS" and "DON'T BE MEAN TO RUSSIA" are more important for some people, I guess.
You've got it backwards. The bogus Russia story has dominated Democrats and real issues where Trump poses an existential threat -- like clean water, climate change and a nuclear arms race -- are given short shrift.
The single area where Trump is rational -- better relations with Russia -- is the single area where Democrats are in full-scale attack.
Russian and American nuclear forces are in hair-trigger alert which gives Trump and Putin 4 minutes to decide whether a warning of nuclear attack is real or not. This is the context in which Democrats and their neocon allies are fomenting Russia paranoia.
I disagree.
There are people such as yourself. Then others who are working on the other issues.
I think your claim is uninformed.
Nigel Farage just visited Julian Assange, presumably to drop off a croissant and coffee.
Paul,
That bolded statement of yours is extraordinary.
In what world do you think your idea of better relations with Russia in anyway comports with what Trump means?
Start with the fact that Trump thinks that Putin is a great man.
Then go with the fact that Trump is probably in debt to his eyeballs with Russian banks
Then finish with the fact that Trump is Trump. (i.e. impulsive, childish, superficial and shallow, maybe crazy, the biggest liar you've ever seen)
Also, please relate to me a comment by any Democrat which indicates they are against better relations with Russia.
Just one.
paulsurovell said:
...
The single area where Trump is rational -- better relations with Russia -- is the single area where Democrats are in full-scale attack.
Russian and American nuclear forces are in hair-trigger alert which gives Trump and Putin 4 minutes to decide whether a warning of nuclear attack is real or not. This is the context in which Democrats and their neocon allies are fomenting Russia paranoia.
So now that Trump has been President for about 50 days, Russia rolls out (literally) intermediate-range nuclear missiles that violate a 1987 treaty to eliminate intermediate-range nuclear missiles.
As noted in the news report: "The INF Treaty marked a high point in Cold War diplomacy between the United States and the then-Soviet Union. It removed the peril of nuclear missiles on opposite sides of the Iron Curtain that could have escalated a crisis on very short notice."
The Trump Administration has been strangely quiet on both Russia and N. Korea.
The relationship with Russia can, I believe, be managed since Putin's goals are not based on national insanity. N. Korea is a bigger problem since the regime suffers from structural insanity.
Congratulations to anyone who can read through this timeline and believe there's nothing creepy going on.
drummerboy said:
Paul,
That bolded statement of yours is extraordinary.
In what world do you think your idea of better relations with Russia in anyway comports with what Trump means?
Start with the fact that Trump thinks that Putin is a great man.
Then go with the fact that Trump is probably in debt to his eyeballs with Russian banks
Then finish with the fact that Trump is Trump. (i.e. impulsive, childish, superficial and shallow, maybe crazy, the biggest liar you've ever seen)
Also, please relate to me a comment by any Democrat which indicates they are against better relations with Russia.
Just one.
paulsurovell said:
The single area where Trump is rational -- better relations with Russia -- is the single area where Democrats are in full-scale attack.
Russian and American nuclear forces are in hair-trigger alert which gives Trump and Putin 4 minutes to decide whether a warning of nuclear attack is real or not. This is the context in which Democrats and their neocon allies are fomenting Russia paranoia.
Ben Cardin is the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee:
"We believe that we need to get tougher on Russia, not easier.”
Giuliani and Trump tried to bring this statue to NYC:
According to Trump, the head had arrived in America, the rest of the body was still in Moscow, and the whole thing was being donated by the Russian government. “The mayor of Moscow has written a letter to Rudy Giuliani stating that they would like to make a gift of this great work by Zurab. It would be my honor if we could work it out with the City of New York. I am absolutely favorably disposed toward it. Zurab is a very unusual guy. This man is major and legit.
paulsurovell said:
Just one.
paulsurovell said:
The single area where Trump is rational -- better relations with Russia -- is the single area where Democrats are in full-scale attack.
Russian and American nuclear forces are in hair-trigger alert which gives Trump and Putin 4 minutes to decide whether a warning of nuclear attack is real or not. This is the context in which Democrats and their neocon allies are fomenting Russia paranoia.
Ben Cardin is the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee:
https://today.law.harvard.edu/cardin-hls-russia-poses-bigger-threat-global-security-isis-china-north-korea/
"We believe that we need to get tougher on Russia, not easier.”
Nice try, but Ben Cardin's views on Russia tell us nothing about Trump or his position on Russia.
The biggest problems we have right now are:
1. The President doesn't stand for or believe in anything except for himself. He is unable to articulate a vision of what America should stand for in the world.
2. As a nation, we have lost track of what we stand for in the world. Why this is is a complex question. The net result is that if we don't know ourselves, we can't possibly deal with the various threats we face today.
For what it is worth, my impression of Cardin is that his views are very much an extension of his opposition to Trump.
Woot said:
can someone change the title on this thread?
Does this mean you trust the CIA allegations even more after the Wikileaks release?
This library appears to give the CIA the ability to deploy hacking tools and techniques that have been known to work in operations by other countries overseas, said one former Western intelligence official.
The Umbrage library would also provide a useful reference for identifying foreign hackers trying to penetrate U.S. systems, said a former U.S. intelligence officer. And it could also be used to mask a U.S. operation and make it appear that it was carried out by another country, the former officer said. That could be accomplished by inserting malware components from, say, a known Chinese, Russian or Iranian hacking operation into a U.S. one.
“When they get caught, nobody thinks it’s the U.S.,” said Stuart McClure, CEO and co-founder of the cybersecurity company Cylance.
tjohn said:
paulsurovell said:Nice try, but Ben Cardin's views on Russia tell us nothing about Trump or his position on Russia.
Ben Cardin is the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee:
Just one.
paulsurovell said:
The single area where Trump is rational -- better relations with Russia -- is the single area where Democrats are in full-scale attack.
Russian and American nuclear forces are in hair-trigger alert which gives Trump and Putin 4 minutes to decide whether a warning of nuclear attack is real or not. This is the context in which Democrats and their neocon allies are fomenting Russia paranoia.
https://today.law.harvard.edu/cardin-hls-russia-poses-bigger-threat-global-security-isis-china-north-korea/
"We believe that we need to get tougher on Russia, not easier.”
The biggest problems we have right now are:
1. The President doesn't stand for or believe in anything except for himself. He is unable to articulate a vision of what America should stand for in the world.
2. As a nation, we have lost track of what we stand for in the world. Why this is is a complex question. The net result is that if we don't know ourselves, we can't possibly deal with the various threats we face today.
For what it is worth, my impression of Cardin is that his views are very much an extension of his opposition to Trump.
You truncated the relevant part of drummerboy's question, that I was responding to:
Also, please relate to me a comment by any Democrat which indicates they are against better relations with Russia.
Just one.
I believe relations with Russia are a good idea - unfortunately - Putin is NOT the guy to make this happen - period. Paul - where is your faith that Putin will work with us? What actions has Putin taken that you admire or that gives us a glimmer of hope that we can work with him?
dave said:
Congratulations to anyone who can read through this timeline and believe there's nothing creepy going on.
https://www.sutori.com/story/trumputin
I find this item especially incriminating:
That doesn't happen. Instead, a Gorbachev impostor showed up and shook hands with Trump. Though the mogul later said he knew it wasn't the real Gorbachev, a TV producer who helped out with the gag said he was fooled.
Anyone who wants to suggest (based on the text below) that it was actually the CIA which hacked the DNC, and planted evidence to make it look like the Russians did it, needs to add more tinfoil to his hat.
paulsurovell said:
Woot said:
can someone change the title on this thread?
Does this mean you trust the CIA allegations even more after the Wikileaks release?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/wikileaks-posts-thousands-of-purported-cia-cyberhacking-documents-1488905823?mod=e2tw
This library appears to give the CIA the ability to deploy hacking tools and techniques that have been known to work in operations by other countries overseas, said one former Western intelligence official.The Umbrage library would also provide a useful reference for identifying foreign hackers trying to penetrate U.S. systems, said a former U.S. intelligence officer. And it could also be used to mask a U.S. operation and make it appear that it was carried out by another country, the former officer said. That could be accomplished by inserting malware components from, say, a known Chinese, Russian or Iranian hacking operation into a U.S. one.“When they get caught, nobody thinks it’s the U.S.,” said Stuart McClure, CEO and co-founder of the cybersecurity company Cylance.
jamie said:
I believe relations with Russia are a good idea - unfortunately - Putin is NOT the guy to make this happen - period. Paul - where is your faith that Putin will work with us? What actions has Putin taken that you admire or that gives us a glimmer of hope that we can work with him?
Iran Nuclear Deal
Syrian Chemical Weapons Disarmament
Paris Climate Agreement
UN Resolution on Israeli Settlements
Minsk Agreement
South_Mountaineer said:
Anyone who wants to suggest (based on the text below) that it was actually the CIA which hacked the DNC, and planted evidence to make it look like the Russians did it, needs to add more tinfoil to his hat.
paulsurovell said:
Woot said:
can someone change the title on this thread?
Does this mean you trust the CIA allegations even more after the Wikileaks release?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/wikileaks-posts-thousands-of-purported-cia-cyberhacking-documents-1488905823?mod=e2tw
This library appears to give the CIA the ability to deploy hacking tools and techniques that have been known to work in operations by other countries overseas, said one former Western intelligence official.The Umbrage library would also provide a useful reference for identifying foreign hackers trying to penetrate U.S. systems, said a former U.S. intelligence officer. And it could also be used to mask a U.S. operation and make it appear that it was carried out by another country, the former officer said. That could be accomplished by inserting malware components from, say, a known Chinese, Russian or Iranian hacking operation into a U.S. one.“When they get caught, nobody thinks it’s the U.S.,” said Stuart McClure, CEO and co-founder of the cybersecurity company Cylance.
How do you know it wasn't the CIA? Because the CIA said it was the Russians?
you do realize that his statement doesn't contradict the general notion of trying to have better relations, right? That desire does not obviate the need to also be tough.
If you're upset perhaps, that some people want to increase sanctions rather than decrease them, as Trump wants, then say that.
But don't accuse the entire Dem party for being against Trump because he wants better relations. They're not opposed to better relations. They're opposed to kowtowing to Russia in the face of their belligerent behavior.
I swear to god but this Russia thing has caused a whole portion of the left to dump their brains by the side of the road.
paulsurovell said:
drummerboy said:
Paul,
That bolded statement of yours is extraordinary.
In what world do you think your idea of better relations with Russia in anyway comports with what Trump means?
Start with the fact that Trump thinks that Putin is a great man.
Then go with the fact that Trump is probably in debt to his eyeballs with Russian banks
Then finish with the fact that Trump is Trump. (i.e. impulsive, childish, superficial and shallow, maybe crazy, the biggest liar you've ever seen)
Also, please relate to me a comment by any Democrat which indicates they are against better relations with Russia.
Just one.
paulsurovell said:
The single area where Trump is rational -- better relations with Russia -- is the single area where Democrats are in full-scale attack.
Russian and American nuclear forces are in hair-trigger alert which gives Trump and Putin 4 minutes to decide whether a warning of nuclear attack is real or not. This is the context in which Democrats and their neocon allies are fomenting Russia paranoia.
Ben Cardin is the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee:
https://today.law.harvard.edu/cardin-hls-russia-poses-bigger-threat-global-security-isis-china-north-korea/
"We believe that we need to get tougher on Russia, not easier.”
paulsurovell said:
Ben Cardin is the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee:
https://today.law.harvard.edu/cardin-hls-russia-poses-bigger-threat-global-security-isis-china-north-korea/
"We believe that we need to get tougher on Russia, not easier.”
The text of the article shows the context of his remarks. He was addressing Russian interference in elections - something going on right now in France and especially in Germany. He was addressing the invasion of independent countries, such as Georgia and Ukraine. He was addressing the direct assistance to Assad, done in a brutal fashion.
In other words, his comment was in the context of Russia's actions in and against other countries. If one of these actions is one for which the United States should be "easier" on Russia, please indicate which one. Otherwise, you are actually in agreement with Cardin's point.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
I believe relations with Russia are a good idea - unfortunately - Putin is NOT the guy to make this happen - period. Paul - where is your faith that Putin will work with us? What actions has Putin taken that you admire or that gives us a glimmer of hope that we can work with him?
Iran Nuclear Deal
Syrian Chemical Weapons Disarmament
Paris Climate Agreement
UN Resolution on Israeli Settlements
Minsk Agreement
I don't get it - are these things Putin is in agreement with the US on? and if so - do you mean Trump's stance on these issues - or Obama's?
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
I believe relations with Russia are a good idea - unfortunately - Putin is NOT the guy to make this happen - period. Paul - where is your faith that Putin will work with us? What actions has Putin taken that you admire or that gives us a glimmer of hope that we can work with him?
Iran Nuclear Deal
Syrian Chemical Weapons Disarmament
Paris Climate Agreement
UN Resolution on Israeli Settlements
Minsk Agreement
You left off the slaughter of innocent Syrians and the murder of dissenters.
paulsurovell said:
South_Mountaineer said:
Anyone who wants to suggest (based on the text below) that it was actually the CIA which hacked the DNC, and planted evidence to make it look like the Russians did it, needs to add more tinfoil to his hat.
paulsurovell said:
Woot said:
can someone change the title on this thread?
Does this mean you trust the CIA allegations even more after the Wikileaks release?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/wikileaks-posts-thousands-of-purported-cia-cyberhacking-documents-1488905823?mod=e2tw
This library appears to give the CIA the ability to deploy hacking tools and techniques that have been known to work in operations by other countries overseas, said one former Western intelligence official.The Umbrage library would also provide a useful reference for identifying foreign hackers trying to penetrate U.S. systems, said a former U.S. intelligence officer. And it could also be used to mask a U.S. operation and make it appear that it was carried out by another country, the former officer said. That could be accomplished by inserting malware components from, say, a known Chinese, Russian or Iranian hacking operation into a U.S. one.“When they get caught, nobody thinks it’s the U.S.,” said Stuart McClure, CEO and co-founder of the cybersecurity company Cylance.
How do you know it wasn't the CIA? Because the CIA said it was the Russians?
The the CIA gave the information to Wikileaks, because they wanted to hurt Clinton and help Trump, I assume.
Your "How do you know it wasn't the CIA" question is just like Trump's claim that Obama "tapped" him, which Trump's people say, "How do you know it's not true?"
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
I believe relations with Russia are a good idea - unfortunately - Putin is NOT the guy to make this happen - period. Paul - where is your faith that Putin will work with us? What actions has Putin taken that you admire or that gives us a glimmer of hope that we can work with him?
Iran Nuclear Deal
Syrian Chemical Weapons Disarmament
Paris Climate Agreement
UN Resolution on Israeli Settlements
Minsk Agreement
I don't get it - are these things Putin is in agreement with the US on? and if so - do you mean Trump's stance on these issues - or Obama's?
As far as Paris goes, it's certainly aligning with Trump's view. Russia hasn't ratified it yet and refuses to "artificially accelerate the process of ratification."
South_Mountaineer said:
paulsurovell said:
South_Mountaineer said:
Anyone who wants to suggest (based on the text below) that it was actually the CIA which hacked the DNC, and planted evidence to make it look like the Russians did it, needs to add more tinfoil to his hat.
paulsurovell said:
Woot said:
can someone change the title on this thread?
Does this mean you trust the CIA allegations even more after the Wikileaks release?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/wikileaks-posts-thousands-of-purported-cia-cyberhacking-documents-1488905823?mod=e2tw
This library appears to give the CIA the ability to deploy hacking tools and techniques that have been known to work in operations by other countries overseas, said one former Western intelligence official.The Umbrage library would also provide a useful reference for identifying foreign hackers trying to penetrate U.S. systems, said a former U.S. intelligence officer. And it could also be used to mask a U.S. operation and make it appear that it was carried out by another country, the former officer said. That could be accomplished by inserting malware components from, say, a known Chinese, Russian or Iranian hacking operation into a U.S. one.“When they get caught, nobody thinks it’s the U.S.,” said Stuart McClure, CEO and co-founder of the cybersecurity company Cylance.
How do you know it wasn't the CIA? Because the CIA said it was the Russians?
The the CIA gave the information to Wikileaks, because they wanted to hurt Clinton and help Trump, I assume.
Your "How do you know it wasn't the CIA" question is just like Trump's claim that Obama "tapped" him, which Trump's people say, "How do you know it's not true?"
Paul is still insisting that Clinton was behind the whole Russia thing, that Russia didn't interfere in the election, and that Obama felt compelled or was pushed to go along with the whole story, i.e., Russian interference in the election.
cramer said:
South_Mountaineer said:Paul is still insisting that Clinton was behind the whole Russia thing, that Russia didn't interfere in the election, and that Obama felt compelled or was pushed to go along with the whole story, i.e., Russian interference in the election.
paulsurovell said:The the CIA gave the information to Wikileaks, because they wanted to hurt Clinton and help Trump, I assume.
How do you know it wasn't the CIA? Because the CIA said it was the Russians?
Your "How do you know it wasn't the CIA" question is just like Trump's claim that Obama "tapped" him, which Trump's people say, "How do you know it's not true?"
You mean, he "sees plans with plans", as in "Dune".
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
I believe relations with Russia are a good idea - unfortunately - Putin is NOT the guy to make this happen - period. Paul - where is your faith that Putin will work with us? What actions has Putin taken that you admire or that gives us a glimmer of hope that we can work with him?
Iran Nuclear Deal
Syrian Chemical Weapons Disarmament
Paris Climate Agreement
UN Resolution on Israeli Settlements
Minsk Agreement
I don't get it - are these things Putin is in agreement with the US on? and if so - do you mean Trump's stance on these issues - or Obama's?
You asked what gives me hope we can work with him. I showed you how Obama worked with him on virtually all of his foreign policy achievements.
Minsk hasn't been implemented, but the biggest obstacle now is Ukraine's resistance to giving partial autonomy that is included in the agreement. Ukraine claims it signed the agreement under pressure.
South_Mountaineer said:
cramer said:
South_Mountaineer said:Paul is still insisting that Clinton was behind the whole Russia thing, that Russia didn't interfere in the election, and that Obama felt compelled or was pushed to go along with the whole story, i.e., Russian interference in the election.
paulsurovell said:The the CIA gave the information to Wikileaks, because they wanted to hurt Clinton and help Trump, I assume.
How do you know it wasn't the CIA? Because the CIA said it was the Russians?
Your "How do you know it wasn't the CIA" question is just like Trump's claim that Obama "tapped" him, which Trump's people say, "How do you know it's not true?"
You mean, he "sees plans with plans", as in "Dune".
These are fictions, not what I've written.
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So there should be no concern when Trump says Putin is a better leader the Obama and we're no so innocent like Russia - these should be ignored? Better relations is a good thing - propping up Putin as the poster boy for who our leader admires is downright scary. It shows very bad judgement to the rest of the world. What other world leader had he given so many accolades to?
This isn't the only area where Democrats are in full scale attack, healthcare is currently high on the list as well.