Former US intelligence analysts: CIA allegations of Russian email hacking are baseless
jamie said:
Why has Binney only appeared on Fox to promote his theories? There's something about this whistleblower that isn't adding up.
The answer is probably that the outlets you don’t see Binney on have decided he isn’t credible. That raises other questions (a la paulsurovell): Why don’t they think he’s credible? Other sources whose credibility may be questioned often get to appear in the interest of debate, so why not him? Is it really a matter of credibility, or is it a means of toeing and reinforcing the official line?
In any case, I assume the onus for why Binney has appeared only on Fox is on the media sources, not on Binney.
ETA: Cross-posted (wordily) with Paul.
cramer said:
"Binney’s claim that the email theft was committed by an insider at the DNC also helps fuel one of the more bizarre conspiracy theories that has gained traction on the right: that the murder of a young DNC staffer last year was somehow connected to the data theft. Binney said he mentioned the case of Seth Rich to Pompeo during their meeting.The meeting raises questions about Pompeo’s willingness to act as an honest broker between the intelligence community and the White House, and his apparent refusal to push back against efforts by the president to bend the intelligence process to suit his political purposes. Instead of acting as a filter between Trump and the intelligence community, Pompeo’s decision to meet with Binney raises the possibility that right-wing theories aired on Fox News and in other conservative media can now move not just from conservative pundits to Trump, but also from Trump to Pompeo and into the bloodstream of the intelligence community."https://theintercept.com/2017/11/07/dnc-hack-trump-cia-director-william-binney-nsa/
Paul -What's your response to Greenwald? He's raising real doubts about the credibilty of Binney. He's not exactly applauding Pompeo's meeting with Binney, to put it mildly.
Seems like Binney was a bitter guy when the NSA chose Trailblazer over Thinthread.
After retiring from the NSA, he founded, together with fellow NSA whistleblower J. Kirk Wiebe, Entity Mapping, LLC, a private intelligence agency to market their analysis program to government agencies
So - his program wasn't chosen - whistblows - quits - starts a security firm - then tries to get government contracts to do what he wanted to do at NSA. Just odd to me.
“In an ideal world, VIPS would at least retract its assertion of certainty. Absent real facts regarding proof of leaks or hacks (or both), how many hypotheses can one copy onto the head of a digital pin?”
The controversy surrounding the July VIPS memo didn’t seem to deter Pompeo from meeting with Binney. In late September, Binney was in Amsterdam, where he has been working to set up a new data analysis firm called Pretty Good Knowledge, when his wife called to tell him that he had received a call at home from the CIA director’s office, asking to set up a meeting. Binney returned the call to Pompeo’s assistant and scheduled the October 24 meeting.
https://theintercept.com/2017/11/07/dnc-hack-trump-cia-director-william-binney-nsa/
MSNBC and CNN also dropped the ball on Pizzagate and the murder of Seth Rich to cover up his leaking DNC emails.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
Why has Binney only appeared on Fox to promote his theories? There's something about this whistleblower that isn't adding up.
Address your question to MSNBC and CNN.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
Why has Binney only appeared on Fox to promote his theories? There's something about this whistleblower that isn't adding up.
Address your question to MSNBC and CNN.
He's been on NBC. Trump found him on Fox.
One wonders why Trump didn't request Thomas Drake be interviewed by the CIA.
Since Greenwald's position has been that he is not ready to accept the conclusions of the IC assessment that Russia hacked without evidence, it seems that he would be quite receptive to Binney's argument if he thought it had any validity. But he isn't.
It's kind of funny that Paul is accusing The Intercept of being afraid of the MSM.
"Why are u and @theintercept smearing William Binney and VIPS? And why can't u give readers a fair account of their position? Afraid of being smeared by MSM?"
cramer said:
cramer said:Paul -What's your response to Greenwald? He's raising real doubts about the credibilty of Binney. He's not exactly applauding Pompeo's meeting with Binney, to put it mildly.
"Binney’s claim that the email theft was committed by an insider at the DNC also helps fuel one of the more bizarre conspiracy theories that has gained traction on the right: that the murder of a young DNC staffer last year was somehow connected to the data theft. Binney said he mentioned the case of Seth Rich to Pompeo during their meeting.The meeting raises questions about Pompeo’s willingness to act as an honest broker between the intelligence community and the White House, and his apparent refusal to push back against efforts by the president to bend the intelligence process to suit his political purposes. Instead of acting as a filter between Trump and the intelligence community, Pompeo’s decision to meet with Binney raises the possibility that right-wing theories aired on Fox News and in other conservative media can now move not just from conservative pundits to Trump, but also from Trump to Pompeo and into the bloodstream of the intelligence community."https://theintercept.com/2017/11/07/dnc-hack-trump-cia-director-william-binney-nsa/
Greenwald didn't write the article.
dave23 said:
One wonders why Trump didn't request Thomas Drake be interviewed by the CIA.
Is Drake, too, an American hero?
jamie said:
Why has Binney only appeared on Fox to promote his theories? There's something about this whistleblower that isn't adding up.
Perhaps that is the only network that will have him. I know the Donna Brazille story was getting short shrift on CNN and MSNBC. Fox is just the right-wing version of CNN and MSNBC. They are all variations of establishment news--presenting what is best for the corporations that run the country.
DaveSchmidt said:
dave23 said:
One wonders why Trump didn't request Thomas Drake be interviewed by the CIA.
Is Drake, too, an American hero?
He was until took his name off the memo because of a number of concerns. He's now the VIP who won't be coming to Thanksgiving dinner after all.
paulsurovell said:
cramer said:
Paul -What's your response to The Intercept's article? It raises real doubts about the credibilty of Binney. It' s not exactly applauding Pompeo's meeting with Binney, to put it mildly.
Greenwald didn't write the article.
Fixed that.
cramer said:
It's kind of funny that Paul is accusing The Intercept of being afraid of the MSM.
"Why are u and @theintercept smearing William Binney and VIPS? And why can't u give readers a fair account of their position? Afraid of being smeared by MSM?"
https://twitter.com/paulsurovell/status/928260899336486912
I think the Intercept is a great website, but I also think they are trying to gain acceptance in the mainstream and full and fair coverage of VIPS and Binney would threaten that. They are getting a lot of flack for this story, so they will probably do something more.
Another part of the context is that I know Jeremy Scahill, Intercept co-founder, who I was replying to. Jeremy Scahill spoke at a South Mountain Peace Action event in the '90s on the bombing of Yugoslavia. Interestingly, SMPA has also hosted three members of VIPs -- Ray McGovern, Scott Ritter and Matthew Hoh, all of whom doubt the official hacking story.
One of the authors of the Intercept article is recently-hired James Risen, a former NYT reporter, who once characterized William Binney as follows:
What jurisdiction does the CIA have over something described as a leak? Pompeo is Trump's lapdog.
paul,
do you understand Binney's theory on why this was an inside job? (was this discussed earlier in the thread?)
drummerboy said:
paul,
do you understand Binney's theory on why this was an inside job? (was this discussed earlier in the thread?)
VIPS says that if it were a hack it would have been detected by the NSA and the NSA has stayed silent.
“Thanks largely to the material released by Edward Snowden, we can provide a full picture of NSA’s extensive domestic data-collection network including Upstream programs like Fairview, Stormbrew and Blarney,” they wrote. This gives the agency “unparalleled access to data” being transmitted both inside and outside the US.
Pointing out that the statements by anonymous intelligence officials contain equivocating phrases such as “our best guess” or “our opinion” or “our estimate,” the veterans argued that the NSA has not produced evidence of hacking. Such evidence can be easily produced “without any danger to sources or methods,” they added.
“In sum, given what we know of NSA’s existing capabilities, it beggars belief that NSA would be unable to identify anyone – Russian or not – attempting to interfere in a US election by hacking,” the group wrote, drawing the conclusion that servers allegedly hacked “were, in fact, not hacked” and that the emails disclosed by WikiLeaks and other sites were leaked.
Binney's specific claim is different. It has to do with how fast the files were copied from the host computer. He's claiming that evidence (from, wait for it, The Forensicator!) proves that the files could not have been transferred via the internet, but instead had to have been copied locally, like onto a USB drive.
He's full of sh**
cramer said:
drummerboy said:
paul,
do you understand Binney's theory on why this was an inside job? (was this discussed earlier in the thread?)
VIPS says that if it were a hack it would have been detected by the NSA and the NSA has stayed silent.
“Thanks largely to the material released by Edward Snowden, we can provide a full picture of NSA’s extensive domestic data-collection network including Upstream programs like Fairview, Stormbrew and Blarney,” they wrote. This gives the agency “unparalleled access to data” being transmitted both inside and outside the US.
Pointing out that the statements by anonymous intelligence officials contain equivocating phrases such as “our best guess” or “our opinion” or “our estimate,” the veterans argued that the NSA has not produced evidence of hacking. Such evidence can be easily produced “without any danger to sources or methods,” they added.
“In sum, given what we know of NSA’s existing capabilities, it beggars belief that NSA would be unable to identify anyone – Russian or not – attempting to interfere in a US election by hacking,” the group wrote, drawing the conclusion that servers allegedly hacked “were, in fact, not hacked” and that the emails disclosed by WikiLeaks and other sites were leaked.
drummerboy said:
paul,
do you understand Binney's theory on why this was an inside job? (was this discussed earlier in the thread?)
It's in the OP.
drummerboy said:
Binney's specific claim is different. It has to do with how fast the files were copied from the host computer. He's claiming that evidence (from, wait for it, The Forensicator!) proves that the files could not have been transferred via the internet, but instead had to have been copied locally, like onto a USB drive.
He's full of sh**
Binney made a second claim that involves forensic evidence not cited in the first memorandum which cites the absence of evidence of a Russian hack along with the NSA's ability to present evidence of a hack if one occurred. There is no dispute within VIPS over the first memorandum which is independent of Binney's second claim.
On this matter, I'll defer to Binney over drummerboy.
Binney, these days, is specifically pushing the "inside hack", which is based on the speed of transfer. In this case, you'd do well to defer to me, a computer professional. Because he's full of sh**.
drummerboy said:
Binney, these days, is specifically pushing the "inside hack", which is based on the speed of transfer. In this case, you'd do well to defer to me, a computer professional. Because he's full of sh**.
The "inside hack" theory is independent of transfer speed. You obviously didn't read or didn't understand the OP. Or maybe it's a knee-jerk reaction to anything that suggests Hillary did not lose the election because of those Russians under your bed.
I'm talking about what he's peddling right now. Today. A theory, I believe, developed sometime after your OP.
Maybe you're the one that needs to keep up.
And I don't think the Russians had a damn thing to do with losing the election, nor have I ever made such a claim.
That doesn't mean I don't think they didn't try. But their effect paled in comparison to EMAILS!! and Comey's October surprise, (and a little voter suppression by the R's added for spice)
paulsurovell said:
drummerboy said:
Binney, these days, is specifically pushing the "inside hack", which is based on the speed of transfer. In this case, you'd do well to defer to me, a computer professional. Because he's full of sh**.
The "inside hack" theory is independent of transfer speed. You obviously didn't read or didn't understand the OP. Or maybe it's a knee-jerk reaction to anything that suggests Hillary did not lose the election because of those Russians under your bed.
drummerboy said:
And I don't think the Russians had a damn thing to do with losing the election, nor have I ever made such a claim.
This is good, but don't say it too loud or you'll be called a Putin stooge.
drummerboy said:
That doesn't mean I don't think they didn't try. But their effect paled in comparison to EMAILS!! and Comey's October surprise, (and a little voter suppression by the R's added for spice)
You're right -- Republicans deprived hundreds of thousands of African Americans and others of the right to vote, likely contributing to Trump's margin of victory. But this fact has been ignored by Democrats who instead have obsessed on Russia allegations. And this is why Russiagate -- despite nohero's self-righteous protestations -- is a fundamentally racist enterprise that throws African American civil rights under the bus.
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd/
Bill Binney interviewed by Ed Shultz on RT on his meeting with Pompeo. Note how he combines the initial VIPS analysis with the second forensic analysis. If Shultz were still working at MSNBC this interview would not have been allowed.
paulsurovell said:
You're right -- Republicans deprived hundreds of thousands of African Americans and others of the right to vote, likely contributing to Trump's margin of victory. But this fact has been ignored by Democrats who instead have obsessed on Russia allegations. And this is why Russiagate -- despite nohero's self-righteous protestations -- is a fundamentally racist enterprise that throws African American civil rights under the bus.
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd/
Not only is there evidence of voter suppression, but it is not being "ignored by Democrats". The claim is being discounted by - wait for it - a lot of the crowd that on Trump's behalf is attacking the Russia investigation. Something about it was only Hillary's fault, and any other explanation of something which could have contributed to the loss must be rejected.
And this makes no sense: "Russiagate -- despite nohero's self-righteous protestations -- is a fundamentally racist enterprise that throws African American civil rights under the bus." I "protested" that it made no sense, and it doesn't make more sense if you keep repeating it. It's like when a right-wing clown says, "We're not the racists, the Democrats are the racists" and similar garbage.
paulsurovell said:
Bill Binney interviewed by Ed Shultz on RT on his meeting with Pompeo. Note how he combines the initial VIPS analysis with the second forensic analysis. If Shultz were still working at MSNBC this interview would not have been allowed.
Lucky for Binney, Alex Jones and "Infowars" are more than happy to give him a microphone.
"Top NSA Official: Spy Grid Helping Establish World Government" - https://www.infowars.com/nsa-whistleblower-spy-grid-is-part-of-world-govt-takeover/
"William Binney, NSA whistleblower and former technical head of the NSA, also told Infowars back in August that the email leaks which have negatively impacted the Democratic Party were carried out by individuals within the U.S. intelligence community who were angry at Hillary exposing classified information and sought to take revenge." = https://www.infowars.com/confirmed-us-intel-operatives-leaked-clinton-campaign-emails-not-russia/
"Former NSA Chief: Obama Illegally Surveilled Trump. Former NSA head William Binney joins Alex Jones to break down what sort of surveillance Donald Trump was actually under." - https://www.infowars.com/former-nsa-chief-obama-illegally-surveilled-trump/
I'll pause to note that according to Mr. Binney the "deep state" was BOTH hacking and leaking Hillary's material AND engaged in anti-Trump spying.
"NSA Whistleblower: DNC 'Hack' NOT POSSIBLE. Former NSA head explains the technical impossibility of an outside DNC hack" - https://www.infowars.com/nsa-whistleblower-dnc-hack-not-possible/
Address your question to MSNBC and CNN.