Failure to Paint

I'm sorry to hear that. 

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

I am sorry I offended you with the question. Dementia is on my mind since my mother died last September after 9 years of declining mental ability.

Mr. Lizziecat and I, in our 70's, possessing all of our marbles, and able to live safely and comfortably in our nicely painted house with its neat lawn, frequently get phone calls and/or mail from realtors who want to sell our house for us.  This leads me to believe that our ages, and our long occupancy in our home are being checked, and that we are being targeted.

Aha, they've been there a long, long time, they must be old, they should move out to assisted living.  So, considering the way that the OP says that his parents are being treated, perhaps his parents are being targeted, too.  Maybe the town wants them to move out.  

We're in SO, and thus far have not been bothered by the town, but I do get the sense sometimes that, despite all the talk of trying to make it possible for people our age to remain  in our homes, they'd really prefer it if we would quietly sell up and move away to someplace where we can paint pictures on china and play bingo.

Maybe I'm paranoid.  Maybe not.

You're not paranoid. The general sentiment  toward seniors that you have described is a real problem around here.

@lizziecat,

I am in my early forties and get this kind of mail all of the time, too.  I think the realtors just send this stuff to everyone in town.

lizziecat said:

Mr. Lizziecat and I, in our 70's, possessing all of our marbles, and able to live safely and comfortably in our nicely painted house with its neat lawn, frequently get phone calls and/or mail from realtors who want to sell our house for us.  This leads me to believe that our ages, and our long occupancy in our home are being checked, and that we are being targeted.

Maybe I'm paranoid.  Maybe not.

it's not just the mailers. "Why don't they just sell their house?" has become too comfortable a response to senior home ownership. 

If true, that needs to be brought to the attention of the Town Administrator and the Township Committee.  If you have any documentation to support this ill treatment, I would follow up with them immediately.

sixdaysinthesun said:

The thing is, they did try to follow up and come up with a solution when they first received notice, but when my mother went to town hall, the person she spoke to basically threatened her with all sorts of other summons and fines which were provably false and did things such as calling their home and leaving threatening messages how what the township would do to them if they didn't get it painted asap. I'm currently putting together documentation of all this and hoping to take to the township, perhaps directly to the mayor or something because the treatment they have received at the hands of the township so far is unacceptable. 

joan_crystal said:

sixdaysinthesun said:

I'm curious, has anyone ever gotten a court summons over failure to paint? My elderly parents live in Maplewood and are currently going through difficult financial times. They were sent a warning notice about painting their admittedly slightly dilapidated house last year and couldn't afford to. They went to the town hall and spoke with the guy in charge of this sort of thing to explain their situation. Rather than trying to help them out or work something out, he instead began to basically harass them, sending them fines for all sorts of preposterous things and even claiming they hadn't paint certain fees which they had clear proof of. They've now just received a number of court summons, which interestingly enough are for a date in the past, before the they were even mailed, with all sorts of fines, most of which are bogus and can be easily proven to be so as well as one for failing to paint.

Yes.  Under local ordinances and enforcement procedures, it is entirely possible to receive a court summons for failure to remediate a violation for failure to maintain the exterior of the house (including failure to paint).  What is highly unusual is being hit with such a fine without first receiving one or more warnings followed by a notice of violation with a period for correction of the condition being attached to each action.  My guess is that the problem existed for sometime before you became aware of the problem.  The other fines you refer to are equally likely to be legitimate under existing code and equally likely to have been issued only after warnings and notices of violation were issued first.  

The ideal time to have followed up with these notices of violation would have been at the time the initial warnings were received.  Now that the matter has been referred to the municipal court, it may be too late to try and negotiate something with the town officials prior to the court date.  What would be advisable is to contact (each of) the code enforcement inspector(s) who issued the violation(s) to get information as to the nature, history, and rationale for each of these fines, what would be needed to address the violations now, and if any agreement for addressing these violations could be presented to the court at the trial(s).

This happens a lot, I received one such call while sitting Shiva for my husband!  I put it down to realtors being overly competitive in a realtor-saturated market.  MY DIL, who took the call, was outraged.

lizziecat said:

Mr. Lizziecat and I, in our 70's, possessing all of our marbles, and able to live safely and comfortably in our nicely painted house with its neat lawn, frequently get phone calls and/or mail from realtors who want to sell our house for us.  This leads me to believe that our ages, and our long occupancy in our home are being checked, and that we are being targeted.

Aha, they've been there a long, long time, they must be old, they should move out to assisted living.  So, considering the way that the OP says that his parents are being treated, perhaps his parents are being targeted, too.  Maybe the town wants them to move out.  

Off topic, but since the subject has been raised by several posters:  Maplewood and  South Orange are actively looking to find ways to make it easier for seniors to remain in their home.  If those posting of age discrimination and other barriers to successful aging in place are serious about doing something to change things, I would suggest getting involved with the SOMA Two Towns For All Ages initiative.  Feel free to PM if you want additional information on what is being done to address and how you can get involved or at least get informed. 

You keep trying to make this a point about senior discrimination when it clearly is NOT. Just because you keep posting that it is, doesn't make it true. I don't care how old you are - $10-15k to paint is A LOT of money for someone who can't afford it. If you look at this issue from an economic standpoint, many people are living on some sort of a budget, no matter if you're 40 or 70. Therefore, a couple in their 70's unable to afford to paint their home is no different than a couple in their 40's unable to afford to paint their home. The common denominator isn't age, it's financial. 

In a fair world, our towns would offer discounts to residents via local paint companies based on financial need. That way, homes would be painted and the town wouldn't come after them in a hostile manner. 

annielou said:

You're not paranoid. The general sentiment  toward seniors that you have described is a real problem around here.

But since the world isn't fair, I would settle for the town offering low or no interest loans for some of these projects.  It was damned hard for me to pay 15k to get my house painted.  I don't take vacations at all, or drive expensive cars.  But I did it.   I would rather not underwrite repairs for people who own homes worth a minimum of 400k in our towns.  

FWIW: If you go outside the local box, and hire painters from a bit outside our area, the cost to paint may be lower. Several years ago, our neighbor's landscaper (from Elizabeth) let us know that they also did painting. Their rate was a few thousand less than the companies seen more regularly on signs within Maplewood/SO.

lizziecat said:

Mr. Lizziecat and I, in our 70's, possessing all of our marbles, and able to live safely and comfortably in our nicely painted house with its neat lawn, frequently get phone calls and/or mail from realtors who want to sell our house for us.  This leads me to believe that our ages, and our long occupancy in our home are being checked, and that we are being targeted.

Aha, they've been there a long, long time, they must be old, they should move out to assisted living.  So, considering the way that the OP says that his parents are being treated, perhaps his parents are being targeted, too.  Maybe the town wants them to move out.  

We're in SO, and thus far have not been bothered by the town, but I do get the sense sometimes that, despite all the talk of trying to make it possible for people our age to remain  in our homes, they'd really prefer it if we would quietly sell up and move away to someplace where we can paint pictures on china and play bingo.

I'm not a senior citizen. I have kids in high school. I get solicitations ALL. THE. TIME.

annielou said:

it's not just the mailers. "Why don't they just sell their house?" has become too comfortable a response to senior home ownership. 

It's a comfortable response to ANYONE who cannot afford to minimally maintain a home. I don't know why you think it's just seniors. You haven't answered that yet. My colleague's husband lost his job. After he couldn't find another one in five months, they sold their beautiful home that they had been living in for 18 years because it was the financially responsible thing to do. They were in their late 40s.

I have friends who moved from Short Hills to Randolph because it was easier for them financially.  In their early 50s.

Just a point about the grants/loans for home maintenance: my mother (in a different town) got a grant to pay for a new roof. Unfortunately she passed away before the 10-year forgival period ended, and we, her children, were responsible for repaying the entire amount before we could sell the house. No idea how it works in Maplewood, but do ask before you go this route.

FilmCarp said:

Is this a case where a reverse mortgage might help?  Do your folks own the house outright?

Reverse mortgages are a rip-off, run and hide from them.

I don't like them either, but if you have a house and nothing else it may be an option.

ril said:

Just a point about the grants/loans for home maintenance: my mother (in a different town) got a grant to pay for a new roof. Unfortunately she passed away before the 10-year forgival period ended, and we, her children, were responsible for repaying the entire amount before we could sell the house. No idea how it works in Maplewood, but do ask before you go this route.

I'm surprised to hear that you had to repay the loan, prior to selling the home.  We had a similar situation with my wife's aunt, again different town, who had taken this type of loan for a sewer line repair.  She also did not outlive the 10 year cycle, so we were responsible for the repayment, but it was done at the closing on the sale of her home.

She is also the one who had a reverse mortgage, so that's why I posted what I did previously about 'running away from them'.  While I don't have the particulars handy or in my head, the repayment on the reverse mortgage was onerous, if I remember, something like almost 50% more than was ever taken out.

As for realtors solicitation, I'm a realtor, it's just part of trying to get business, however as in the case of joan_crystal, there is a time and place and no realtor should be attempting to solicit after the death of a loved one, in my opinion, it's unethical.

The week after my next door neighbor passed, I received a call from a realtor asking if I "knew anyone who wanted to sell their home". I was pretty sure the realtor was obituary-chasing, and was trying to find out if the neighbor's house would be for sale. (It wasn't -- one of their adult children moved in). While not nearly as bad as calling the bereaved's house directly, it still felt creepy.

It seems to me more like non-wealthy discrimination rather than age discrimination. The cost of living is very high in Maplewood, given that residents are required to keep their homes in an excellent state of repair. There is effectively a sign like you see at amusement parks, saying, You must be wealthy to enter this ride.

sixdaysinthesun said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:


This one gets harder for me to bring up, but how is their mental health? You do not need to respond to this question but think about it.

I simply asked a question about summons and you've somehow chosen to taken a Grand Canyon sized leap to conjecturing about the state of my parents' mental health. ...  I'm sure you're the sort of person who took the first available opportunity to ship your elderly parents off to some senior living facility where they pay out the nose to be treated badly by those who are meant to be caring for them. 

Actually, there were years of declining mental health before we decided that she needed to be somewhere that her health and safety could be better monitored.  It wasn't after we discovered that she only took her Aricept on random days if she forgot something, and refused to take it on days when her memory was "fine."  It wasn't when she woke up her tenant at 5am by banging a snow shovel on his door because she decided she wanted him to take her car shopping.  It wasn't when she repeatedly called the police on her tenant at all hours of the night because she believed he was playing "A Bird In A Guilded Cage" repeatedly, every time the police showed up all was quiet, and she would accuse them of pretending to not hear it to "make her look crazy."  It wasn't when my sister discovered that half the food in her fridge was out of date, or even outright spoiled, and had to clear it all out.  It wasn't when she started accusing people of sneaking into her home and moving things on her to "make her look crazy."  It wasn't when she called the police department and said she was going to kill herself because she couldn't find her car keys. It wasn't when her car showed up with more and more dings and dents, with her having no knowledge of how they got there, and we started becoming afraid for the safety of other motorists and pedestrians.  It wasn't when she received a brochure from a longtime friend for a retirement community, and then the next week "found" the brochure in her kitchen and called me up screaming at me because she was convinced that we had got the brochure ourselves and left it at her house by accident because we were plotting to "put her away" and refused to believe me when I repeatedly told her that she had gotten it from her friend that lived in that same place. It wasn't when she called a plumber, and then called the cops on him and reported him as a man "breaking into her house" when he arrived to do the work (thankfully, the plumber was very understanding of the situation).  It was a culmination of these, and many more, incidents that made us come to the difficult conclusion that she was no longer safe living on her own.

My grandmother (Formerlyjerseyjack's mother) actually lived on her own far longer than was safe.  And when she did go into dementia care my parents made a point of making unannounced visits at odd times/days to make sure that they didn't just see the weekend care when facilities expect visits.  And my father went deeply into debt to make sure she was able to stay in facilities that both cared for and respected the patients in their charge.  But go ahead, try and push buttons by accusing him of shipping her off at the first opportunity. 

FilmCarp said:

I don't like them either, but if you have a house and nothing else it may be an option.

The best option may to sell and move to a lover property tax abode. With many elderly its the very heavy property tax that drains their resources.

I have gained enormous respect for JerseyJack over the years for many reasons. He's a good man. And the rest of his family is okay, too.

If its just a bit of paint chipping here and there, have you considered a touch up job?  That might be enough to beat the summons.  It's not aesthetically ideal since there would probably be some color differences  but its cheap.

FilmCarp said:

But since the world isn't fair, I would settle for the town offering low or no interest loans for some of these projects.    

Isn't this exactly what the programs Joan described in an earlier post do?

yes, but in the post above mine Kibbegirl said in a fair world there would be discounts and free money, all of which someone else pays for.  The context of the post matters.

Said nothing about "free money." Free money simply doesn't exist. And just because some own homes worth $400k or more, which many do here in SO/MW, doesn't mean they aren't financially strapped. Painting a house costs the same amount as replacing pipes. It's an expensive undertaking. The discounts should solely be applied based on ones salary / debt and not the value of their home. 

FilmCarp said:

yes, but in the post above mine Kibbegirl said in a fair world there would be discounts and free money, all of which someone else pays for.  The context of the post matters.

FilmCarp said:

But since the world isn't fair, I would settle for the town offering low or no interest loans for some of these projects.  It was damned hard for me to pay 15k to get my house painted.  I don't take vacations at all, or drive expensive cars.  But I did it.   I would rather not underwrite repairs for people who own homes worth a minimum of 400k in our towns.  

I know how much things cost.  I am doing everything described in this thread.  I also know what kind of overhead businesses have.  Others have suggested low interest loans.  That's reasonable.  You suggested that businesses give discounts.  How much should they give away?  $1500 on a 15k job?  That's not enough to help someone who is really strapped, but it probably is the entire net profit on a job.  That's the free money you are talking about.  A contractor should work at cost or less.  My point about the value of our homes is that the equity may be there to help solve the problem, that's all.

I'm confused: are you posting from the standpoint of a homeowner or a contractor? You seem very concerned about the bottom line of the contractor.

I'm not a contractor but it would be at the contractor's discretion as to what percentage discount they'd offer. Why would any business charge $1500 for a $15k job? It isn't business savvy and it makes customers who paid full price for their job feel mishandled. Whatever a customer pays, full or discounted, is not "free" money. It's the price negotiated b'twn client and business. 

If I were strapped and needed work done, my only position would be to try to negotiate a price I could manage and pay. If the contractor declined, then I'd move on until I found someone who could work with me. If all one could afford is $1500 for a quoted $15k paint job, unfortunately for the homeowner, that job won't get done. 

FilmCarp said:

I know how much things cost.  I am doing everything described in this thread.  I also know what kind of overhead businesses have.  Others have suggested low interest loans.  That's reasonable.  You suggested that businesses give discounts.  How much should they give away?  $1500 on a 15k job?  That's not enough to help someone who is really strapped, but it probably is the entire net profit on a job.  That's the free money you are talking about.  A contractor should work at cost or less.  My point about the value of our homes is that the equity may be there to help solve the problem, that's all.

You read me backwards, to start with.  I suggested a 10 percent discount of $1500 on a $15000 job, leaving a bill of $13,500.  But more to the point, you are confused because I am looking at the idea from both sides.  That's what we need to do to analyze a proposal right?  Look at it every way we can.  It's easy to say seniors should get breaks to help them remain in their homes.  I'm just looking at where those breaks come from and who pays for them.  There is nothing wrong with that.

vermontgolfer said:

FilmCarp said:

Is this a case where a reverse mortgage might help?  Do your folks own the house outright?

Reverse mortgages are a rip-off, run and hide from them.

Yes and no. While there are issues with them, there have been improvements in them in recent years and they can be useful for seniors who want to remain where they are but have limited income and few or no assets outside the value of their home.