FAFSA

shoshannah

Does it matter on the FAFSA where you're located geographically? Hypothetically, 2 families could be identical on paper, but one lives in NYC and one lives in say Rural AL. Now a 200K family income in NYC could be very average but above average in AL. Does the FAFSA need aid based model account for true cost of living?

ElizMcCord said:

shoshannah

Does it matter on the FAFSA where you're located geographically? Hypothetically, 2 families could be identical on paper, but one lives in NYC and one lives in say Rural AL. Now a 200K family income in NYC could be very average but above average in AL. Does the FAFSA need aid based model account for true cost of living?

No. Fafsa is not sensitive to regional differences in cost of living.

However, please remember that Fafsa is NOT going to be your main vehicle for financial aid. Fafsa is the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, with the key word being FEDERAL. There are only TWO forms of financial aid you can get from the federal government:

1. Pell grants for very low income families. The maximum Pell grant per year is about $5,000 (this year).

2. Direct student loans (aka Stafford loans). There are two forms: subsidized and unsubsidized. ANYONE can get an unsubsidized loan, which is a loan for which interest begins accruing immediately upon disbursement. A subsidized loan -- for which you have to qualify based on income -- does not begin accruing interest until graduation. The maximum Stafford loan for a freshman this year is $5,500; for a senior it is $7,500.

Bottom line: You are not going to pay for college with financial aid from the federal government.

ETA: You are not going to pay for a 4-year away-from-home college with federal aid alone. You can live at home and pay for community college with federal aid. Easily.

In a fantastic turn of events, I begged/pleaded/convinced ex-BIL to give me the pieces of data I need to file (which also served as reinforcement for my difficult plan of staying friendly with her ex even though my sister hates me for it). I completed it for him on Saturday. Got email just now that it's been processed. yay! Sooooooo relieved!!!!!

Shosonnah, your reference to Federal aid is basically what his report says-that he'll likely be eligible for a $4800 pell grant and $5500 in stafford loans. So, where does rest of aid come in? State aid? Do I need to do anything else with regard to aid other than federal or do the schools just use the FAFSA to determine state or other eligibility?

conandrob240 said:

In a fantastic turn of events, I begged/pleaded/convinced ex-BIL to give me the pieces of data I need to file (which also served as reinforcement for my difficult plan of staying friendly with her ex even though my sister hates me for it). I completed it for him on Saturday. Got email just now that it's been processed. yay! Sooooooo relieved!!!!!

Shosonnah, your reference to Federal aid is basically what his report says-that he'll likely be eligible for a $4800 pell grant and $5500 in stafford loans. So, where does rest of aid come in? State aid? Do I need to do anything else with regard to aid other than federal or do the schools just use the FAFSA to determine state or other eligibility?

Fabulous! Nevertheless, she persisted.

If I am not mistaken, your nephew is going to community college. For a reference point, Nassau Community College, on Long Island, where he lives, has a total annual cost of attendance of $6,504, which includes tuition, books//supplies, and fees. That's about typical for community colleges across the country. So the federal aid should cover it.

If he is not living at home, he can use whatever remains from his financial aid for his living expenses. So, if he receives a combined $10,300 in Pell and Stafford, he'd have about $3,800 left over. He might also get work-study, if his college participates in that program. Indeed, if he is eligible for a Pell grant it's almost guaranteed that he'd be eligible for $3,000 of work-study. Clearly, he'd need an additional job to cover his expenses. Community colleges do not for the most part have the resources (ever hear of an endowment for a community college?) to provide institutional (meaning: funds from the college) financial aid.

WRT state aid: He is a NYS resident, so if he goes to a NYS school he would be eligible for TAP, as I explained upthread. He cannot use TAP to go to college in California.

If you want to learn whether there are any other resources available, you have to look at the financial aid pages for each college that he is applying to. Also, make liberal use of the Net Price Calculator for every college he's interested in. Now that you have the financial data, it will be easy to do.

FAFSA is directed to federal aid, as shoshannah notes. However, many (most all?) schools also use it as a starting point for other kinds of need-based aid. When the school sends out its offer of aid, it can't hurt to appeal to the school based on local cost of living, also other unusual family circumstances, such as change/loss of job since the base year, exceptional medical or other expenses, etc., maybe even refusal of family to pay?

caveat: I'm happy to say I haven't had to deal with this stuff irl since 2009.

yes, he's most likely going to go to community college so in NY, CA or NJ that federal aid will cover it and there will be a little leftover.

There is one 4 year school in CA he's interested in with a cost of $24,000 ( not a state school and that includes tuition, all fees, books and room/board). I'll look and see what other aid they offer.

mjc said:

FAFSA is directed to federal aid, as shoshannah notes. However, many (most all?) schools also use it as a starting point for other kinds of need-based aid. When the school sends out its offer of aid, it can't hurt to appeal to the school based on local cost of living, also other unusual family circumstances, such as change/loss of job since the base year, exceptional medical or other expenses, etc., maybe even refusal of family to pay?

caveat: I'm happy to say I haven't had to deal with this stuff since 2009.

In theory, yes. Fafsa is the starting point, and colleges use it for their own purposes. However, any college that uses ONLY the Fafsa to determine aid does not have much if any money to give. Colleges that have serious money to give will require you to submit the CSS PROFILE, which is a much more detailed financial disclosure form.

Great advice. Actually, some community colleges do have modest endowments and some money that is allocated towards student scholarships - Union County College in NJ is one. (That said, they might have specific requirements regarding major, high GPA, residency etc.) But, agree, financial aid for CC likely is going to come primarily from federal aid.

Good. He's applied to Suffolk community, union county community college, a few community schools in CA. And then 4 year colleges- Iona (accepted but costs a lot), Kean (waitlisted) and Pacific States University (pending)

conandrob240 said:

Good. He's applied to Suffolk community, union county community college, a few community schools in CA. And then 4 year colleges- Iona (accepted but costs a lot), Kean (waitlisted) and Pacific States University (pending)

Look at the financial aid pages on the website of each of these colleges to see what else might be available. Also, to maximize aid, I strongly suggest he apply to some SUNY schools. Some of the SUNYs with the highest acceptance rates are: Brockport, Oswego, Oneonta, Cortland, Potsdam, Plattsburgh, College at Buffalo, Old Westbury, College of Technology at Alfred, College of Technology at Delhi, Institute of Technology at Utica-Rome.

conandrob240 said:

Good. He's applied to Suffolk community, union county community college, a few community schools in CA. And then 4 year colleges- Iona (accepted but costs a lot), Kean (waitlisted) and Pacific States University (pending)

One important thing to keep in mind: The Stafford loan is a big responsibility. If he drops out of school or drops below half time, he will have to start paying back the loan. Obviously he also has to pay it back when he graduates. If he takes the maximum every year (the allowable amount goes up a little every year) he'll be in debt for $25,000 after four years.

if course, because nothing can ever be easy- he's been selected for verification. How do I get proof from the IRS that the student didn't file (didn't need to file) taxes in 2015?

And what is a Dependent Verification Form?

OMG, I am going to cry. Figured it out but a friggin teenager can't request a non-filing verification letter on-line within having a cc# , car loan # or mortgage # to input! Seriously?!?? What teenager has any of that?!??

Can't request by mail either- pops up as ineligible. Now, have to guide teen through a phone call to the frickin IRS!!!

Can you do the call as a conference call so you can stay on the line with him?

I guess that's what I'll have to do. Now I also have to have his father fill out two more pieces of paperwork AND get him to provide a tax transcript (and not just the data I entered that he provided).

NizhoniGrrrl said:

Can you do the call as a conference call so you can stay on the line with him?

conandrob240 said:

if course, because nothing can ever be easy- he's been selected for verification. How do I get proof from the IRS that the student didn't file (didn't need to file) taxes in 2015?

And what is a Dependent Verification Form?

Just about everyone who does not use the IRS Data Retrieval Toolis selected for verification.

You need to read the websites I lined to upthread and search for the info you need. Or use google.

conandrob240 said:

I guess that's what I'll have to do. Now I also have to have his father fill out two more pieces of paperwork AND get him to provide a tax transcript (and not just the data I entered that he provided).

NizhoniGrrrl said:

Can you do the call as a conference call so you can stay on the line with him?

Dad doesn't provide a tax transcript. IRS does. You have to request it.

This is the form for non-filer verification. Check box number 7. Mail it.

http://www.grcc.edu/sites/default/files/docs/financialaid/2018/4506t%20Nonfiling%20Verification%20to%20Taxpayer.pdf

I'm pretty sure the same form is used to request a tax transcript. Fill out a separate one for the dad's tax transcript. Pleased double check that this is the right form.

Breathe.

Unfortunately I heard that the IRS data retrieval tool is offline for the foreseeable future! This stinks for folks submitting this info at the last minute because it helped you avoid the verification step. None of this is easy and you have to repeat it every year.

yes and that why this was a hassle from the beginning. If that retrieval tool had been available, I could have done this myself from the get go.

What is baffling to me is why isn't verification just done in FAFSA tool once? It seems each SCHOOL is going to require it each with slightly different requirements! Ugh!

the IRS tool not letting me request a proof of 2015 non-filing document for a 17 year old kid without inputting a car loan, mortgage loan or credit card number was simply ridiculous.

conandrob240 said:

What is baffling to me is why isn't verification just done in FAFSA tool once? It seems each SCHOOL is going to require it each with slightly different requirements! Ugh!

I'm not sure about that. Fafsa is processed by the federal government, and the report is made available to schools. What are you seeing?

NizhoniGrrrl said:

Unfortunately I heard that the IRS data retrieval tool is offline for the foreseeable future! This stinks for folks submitting this info at the last minute because it helped you avoid the verification step. None of this is easy and you have to repeat it every year.

Ah, well that's a pain. I thought it had been down for just a day. That really stinks.

A note from a school, not FAFSA, asking to submit 4 pieces of info to them directly because I had been selected for verification. One is a dependent verification form (simple to fill out) but has a school header in the form which I assume means each school will have their own version?

shoshannah said:

conandrob240 said:

What is baffling to me is why isn't verification just done in FAFSA tool once? It seems each SCHOOL is going to require it each with slightly different requirements! Ugh!

I'm not sure about that. Fafsa is processed by the federal government, and the report is made available to schools. What are you seeing?

Tom_R said:

ElizMcCord said:

There's also a Nj statute that allows for a child to sue his/her divorced parents to pay for tuition. There's currently a huge case in NJ courts about it. But I digress, to others familiar with FAFSA ins and outs.

If you, or somebody else, would provide more information on this statute, it would be greatly appreciated.

A citation to the statute would be best, but I'll happily take any information someone has.

Thanks,

TomR

Forgive me if this is redundant but it seems that no one else posted the link to the Ricci v Ricci case that was mentioned. This is a very messy case that turned on a couple of key issues so it should not be construed as binding dictum on the matter of divorced parental support for a child in college in NJ. Essentially, Caitlyn Ricci was, according to her parents, a petulant teen who had repeated problems with underage drinking and other matters. They claim she elected to move out rather than follow their “house rules”. She counterclaimed that their rules were draconian and moved for emancipation. In a baffling decision, the initial judge ruled that she was to be considered emancipated for every other aspect of life than her education and that her parents (who divorced in the process) would remain accountable for certain designated college costs at one institution. When she transferred to a much more expensive university, her parents objected. You can read the summary of the case in the appeal decision at http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-published/2017/a1832-14.html

Also, as of February 1, 2017, N.J.S.A. 2A:17-56.67 [ http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2015/title-2a/section-2a-17-56.67 ] became effective. It marks a major change in the law of emancipation and termination of a parent’s obligation to pay child and other financial support. Under that statute – which will apply retroactively as well as prospectively – a parent’s obligation to pay child support will terminate when a child reaches the age of 19, unless a court orders an extension of payment which shall not extend beyond the child’s 23rd birthday. If a child is enrolled full time in college after he or she reaches the age of 19, then child support will not be terminated until that child reaches age 23, by which time the average college student has indeed graduated. However, the statute further provides that even though child support ends, a child over the age of 23 can still seek a court order requiring other forms of financial maintenance from a parent. So, a child over 23 can still ask for a court to force a parent to pay his/her expenses, it just won’t be called “child support.”

conandrob240 said:

A note from a school, not FAFSA, asking to submit 4 pieces of info to them directly because I had been selected for verification. One is a dependent verification form (simple to fill out) but has a school header in the form which I assume means each school will have their own version?

shoshannah said:

conandrob240 said:

What is baffling to me is why isn't verification just done in FAFSA tool once? It seems each SCHOOL is going to require it each with slightly different requirements! Ugh!

I'm not sure about that. Fafsa is processed by the federal government, and the report is made available to schools. What are you seeing?

Not sure how that works. What I can tell you is this: An individual school can modify your Fafsa. If they find a mistake, they will fix it. They can also move numbers around in certain ways, usually beneficial to the student. They are allowed to do this. If this happens, the student gets an email from the Fafsa people saying that a Fafsa correction has been filed. You can call the school's financial aid office and ask them what they did and why.