Election Lessons and Observations

Regardless, elections have consequences and when a person associated with a certain position (even if not the original purpose of the candidacy) wins, then that should have consequences for the issue. Of course nothing has really been won yet and you are all welcome to vote Republican in November. Now THAT would be an earthquake. But for now the star chamber and cabal is wounded.

Don't know anything about a Star Chamber but the Profeta-Huemer Cabal is doing fine.

apple44 said:
Seems to me that unless a professional and scientific poll is conducted, we will never know precisely why Lembrich won and Ryan lost.
And as we've seen, despite the many things this town does well, conducting professional and scientific polls isn't one of them.

I confess to being more enamored of sharp thinkers who ponder unknowables than I am of mushy polls that purport to reflect some kind of truth.

Anecdotal observation that may or may not reflect the actual voter patterns and turnout: when I voted over at Clinton mid-morning, my husband and I were the only voters. Several hours later I drove to the village and parked by the Women's Club. There were numerous voters leaving the WC and entering it. Most were seniors. Since there seemed to be an abundance of those Save the Village signs in the streets surrounding the Village, I was wondering if the turnout there--and Lembrich votes-- was related to the the Save the Village signs and related rhetoric.

I think there have been a number of issues for Maplewood over the past few years...questions about the direction of the town, development, unhappiness with the Animal Control Officer/AHS issue, not liking the aesthetics of the Station House......Gerry Ryan, as an incumbent, probably took the heat for all of these items, even if he didn't support them all.

krnl said:
Anecdotal observation that may or may not reflect the actual voter patterns and turnout: when I voted over at Clinton mid-morning, my husband and I were the only voters. Several hours later I drove to the village and parked by the Women's Club. There were numerous voters leaving the WC and entering it. Most were seniors. Since there seemed to be an abundance of those Save the Village signs in the streets surrounding the Village, I was wondering if the turnout there--and Lembrich votes-- was related to the the Save the Village signs and related rhetoric.

Might be geography; it would be interesting to see breakdowns by district. Might also be luck of timing. When I arrived at the Women's Club a little before 3, I, too, was the only voter. (And although I had a senior moment, forgetting my district number, I'm still a few years shy.)

My observation is that Mr. Profeta has squandered his legacy.

Red_Barchetta said:
My observation is that Mr. Profeta has squandered his legacy.

Yes. I honestly feel embarrassed for him.

mjh said:

Red_Barchetta said:
My observation is that Mr. Profeta has squandered his legacy.

Yes. I honestly feel embarrassed for him.

Not to mention embarassed BY him.

Mr. Ryan showed himself to be a class act and gracious in defeat. Some of his supporters would do well to learn from him.

He also showed himself to be a class act during the campaign.

because some people are criticizing Fred? I am sure Fred is much less upset about it than you seem to be.

author said:
Mr. Ryan showed himself to be a class act and gracious in defeat. Some of his supporters would do well to learn from him.

author said:
Mr. Ryan showed himself to be a class act and gracious in defeat. Some of his supporters would do well to learn from him.

Amazingly, I think people can criticize a politician and still be a "class act".

Sure they can. As political criticism, "squandered his legacy" and "embarrassed for/by" just fall on the more personal end of the spectrum.

If an answer can be as informative as it is, by necessity, disparaging: If someone has done enough for a community to create a legacy, what, in a single campaign, rises to the level of tipping the entire balance sheet?

DaveSchmidt said:
If someone has done enough for a community to create a legacy, what, in a single campaign, rises to the level of tipping the entire balance sheet?

It's an opinion. There is no one objective standard. You're free to disagree with my assessment.

I agree with this. If Vic had been running this year, he would be the one that lost rather than Jerry.

Solomon said:

joan_crystal said:

What we had in this Democratic Party primary to a significant extent was a negative vote against the voting record of the TC in general and the incumbent candidate in particular when it came to a single issue to which a highly verbal and influential group of persons were vehemently opposed.

That's it in a nutshell. And the remainder of your comments are spot on.

mjh said:

author said:
Mr. Ryan showed himself to be a class act and gracious in defeat. Some of his supporters would do well to learn from him.

Amazingly, I think people can criticize a politician and still be a "class act".

You amaze very easily. Though I may have disagreed with some of Mr. Ryans's political decisions, class is determined by far more than that.

So basically, a lot of voters said we don't know what we want, but we don't want that. Kind of like getting everybody in a family to agree on dinner sometimes. Nobody can say precisely what they want but nobody wants what is being offered.

The last time this happened was in response to the revaluation.

I'm not interested in agreeing or disagreeing, mjh. I'm interested in learning, in the hope of understanding, what standards in this election, however subjective, would lead someone to reject the legacy of a community leader they previously admired. If neither you nor anybody else wants to elaborate, that's fine. My loss.

DaveSchmidt said:
I'm not interested in agreeing or disagreeing, mjh. I'm interested in learning, in the hope of understanding, what standards in this election, however subjective, would lead someone to reject the legacy of a community leader they previously admired. If you or nobody else wants to elaborate, that's fine. My loss.

There was a highly energized set of voters who clearly don't admire members of the T.C. When I see comments that the P.O. project is going to "destroy the Village as we know it" as if it were ISIS coming to destroy cultural history, then I know that all reason has left the room.

tjohn: Applying my post, which was about anti-Profeta comments, to the rejection of Mr. Ryan caught me by surprise -- in a very good way. My gain. Thanks.

The single highest highest number of votes went to the candidate that voiced opposition to the

building of the proposed apartment house /five retail store complex.

He did not have the backing of the Democratic party.

This was the people of Maplewood Township expressing their opinion via the ballot box.

We may not have been allowed a Referendum but in every sense of the word we just had one.

Reason just moved a few steps over to the ballot box.

DaveSchmidt said:
tjohn: Applying my post, which was about anti-Profeta comments, to the rejection of Mr. Ryan caught me by surprise -- in a very good way. My gain. Thanks.

I think the majority of people concerned about the P.O. site are completely sincere in their concerns even if it is next to impossible at this point to figure out what people do want (other than unicorns).

I also think Fred Profeta engaged in a remarkably blatant act of political opportunism.

The day of the election a woman posted on Facebook stating she really hadn't had the chance to go through all of the issues, and the differences among the candidates, and was asking people to summarize them for her. I didn't have a sense she knew much about any of the current TC members. She seemed to be learning towards Greg, mostly as his kids were the same age as her children.

I'm not suggesting that the vast majority of voters made their choices this way. But it shows there are people who don't vote on the issues, but simply because one candidate appeals them for other reasons, or perhaps was the only one who knocked on their door when there were home. Nothing new about that.

apple44 said:
perhaps was the only one who knocked on their door when there were home.

A classic Tip O'Neill story on this: "On election day he was approached by a neighbor. 'Tip, I voted for you even though you didn't ask me,' she said. The young candidate was aghast. 'But Mrs. O'Brien, I shovel your sidewalk in winter, I mow your grass in summer, and I take out your trash twice a week,' he protested. 'I didn't think I had to ask you.' 'Thomas,' she told him, 'everyone likes to be asked.'"

eta: Seems like Greg Lembrich and his supporters did a lot more asking.

This was not a referendum, as others have stated, this was just that people didn't want an incumbent to stay. It should not be assumed that this was any more an indication of a need to save the PO as the Republicans taking over Congress was a call for pro-life and anti-gay marriage laws.

A pro-development and downtown revitalization candidate, plus a candidate who supports the project, when combined, took more votes than the anti-development candidate. I don't see anyone out here saying "look this means the project should move forward."

author said:
The single highest highest number of votes went to the candidate that voiced opposition to the
building of the proposed apartment house /five retail store complex.
He did not have the backing of the Democratic party.
This was the people of Maplewood Township expressing their opinion via the ballot box.
We may not have been allowed a Referendum but in every sense of the word we just had one.
Reason just moved a few steps over to the ballot box.

DaveSchmidt said:
Sure they can. As political criticism, "squandered his legacy" and "embarrassed for/by" just fall on the more personal end of the spectrum.
If an answer can be as informative as it is, by necessity, disparaging: If someone has done enough for a community to create a legacy, what, in a single campaign, rises to the level of tipping the entire balance sheet?

Picking Sarah Palin as your running mate.

apple44 said:

I'm not suggesting that the vast majority of voters made their choices this way. But it shows there are people who don't vote on the issues, but simply because one candidate appeals them for other reasons, or perhaps was the only one who knocked on their door when there were home. Nothing new about that.

True. Still, with an incumbent going down by a ratio of nearly 2 to 1 (whatever the strength of the turnout), what's important to the mayor and other TC members who remain, I would think, is what that majority does suggest. Any thoughts from posters what, if anything, they would do differently if they were in the TC's shoes?

ETA: Cross-posted with ArchBroad, who touches on this from the "not a referendum" perspective. Post House aside, then, any other changes you'd make in governance, AB?

ArchBroad said:
This was not a referendum, as others have stated, this was just that people didn't want an incumbent to stay. It should not be assumed that this was any more an indication of a need to save the PO as the Republicans taking over Congress was a call for pro-life and anti-gay marriage laws.
A pro-development and downtown revitalization candidate, plus a candidate who supports the project, when combined, took more votes than the anti-development candidate. I don't see anyone out here saying "look this means the project should move forward."

author said:
The single highest highest number of votes went to the candidate that voiced opposition to the
building of the proposed apartment house /five retail store complex.
He did not have the backing of the Democratic party.
This was the people of Maplewood Township expressing their opinion via the ballot box.
We may not have been allowed a Referendum but in every sense of the word we just had one.
Reason just moved a few steps over to the ballot box.

When you add up the votes of two candidates chances are you will get more votes than any one single

candidate.