Do you know how hot it is in some SOMSD classrooms?

Steve said:
Wrong This would be a total local expenditure Saying you'd forego a military adventure is a dishonest answer if you want to have a real discussion as to whether or not the SOMSD buildings should have A/C installed. The Feds aren't going to come in and pay for it and I don't know that folks are willing to pay higher taxes for it.

What do you want me to say? I have said we are grossly underfunding our national infrastructure. We will be paying more and receiving less in the years to come. Something has to give.

And tax increases are happening all of the time. They happen in one of two ways. One way is that you pay more and maintain service levels. The other way is that you don't increase taxes in line with cost increases and you end up getting less.

This discussion is eerily reminiscent of the old discussions about full-day-K. All those in the know said, "We don't have the space for full day-K! It can't be done!" right up until there was enough community outcry for it. Space was found, and it was done.

It's the same with air-conditioning. I would not go to work if the place was not air-conditioned, and I bet I am not the only one who feels that way. It is appalling that we as a community find it acceptable to expect children and teachers to function in stifling classrooms. There has to be a way to do this.

finnegan said:
This discussion is eerily reminiscent of the old discussions about full-day-K. All those in the know said, "We don't have the space for full day-K! It can't be done!" right up until there was enough community outcry for it. Space was found, and it was done.
It's the same with air-conditioning. I would not go to work if the place was not air-conditioned, and I bet I am not the only one who feels that way. It is appalling that we as a community find it acceptable to expect children and teachers to function in stifling classrooms. There has to be a way to do this.

It takes money and as long as attitudes about taxes and spending priorities don't change, we are going to have these problems more and more. Our national infrastructure is a mess and getting worse. Schools, roads, bridges, train tunnels.. It takes money and political will, neither of which are currently forthcoming.

Yes, I would be ok with an assessment for A/C in the schools, but I don't see it happening in the current social/political climate.

The School District presently operates under a 2% budget cap.

Would the funding necessary for air conditioning be outside the cap?

Above, somebody suggested a one time assessment for air conditioning. The last time I looked, the expense of a one-time-expenditure would be carried forward to the following year's budget as part of the base budget, and every year going forward.

Has the law changed? Admittedly, it has been some time since I looked into this aspect of District budgeting.

TomR

FilmCarp said:
Okay BG9, you tell all of the working parents that they have to find childcare for an extra 10 days per year. Do you agree with my idea for a special assessment? We want it, will you help me pay for it?

I have no problem with special assessments for A/C and paying for them even though I would think the cost can be put into the capital budget.

Tom_R said:
The School District presently operates under a 2% budget cap.
Would the funding necessary for air conditioning be outside the cap?
Above, somebody suggested a one time assessment for air conditioning. The last time I looked, the expense of a one-time-expenditure would be carried forward to the following year's budget as part of the base budget, and every year going forward.
Has the law changed? Admittedly, it has been some time since I looked into this aspect of District budgeting.
TomR

Its new construction. Would a new school or science wing be under the 2% cap? I wouldn't think so.

I grew up in the south and attended new construction schools in the 70's and 80's. no AC

The school my son goes to schoolnow in NJ was constructed in the 70's.... No AC.

My college kid goes to school in the south, no AC in her dorm

It takes a lot of Money to engineer and implement AC in new construction. It takes even more to retrofit AC. Since AC would be probably used at most for a month, even in places like FL, most schools have no AC because it is more fiscally appropriate to invest in stuff other than central air that is used for a month a year

My child complains frequently about the condition of the bathrooms but never once has expressed a wish for AC in the classrooms. There are many things that need to be addressed in regards to the physical facilities of our aging school buildings. I'm just not sure AC is at the very tippy top of the priority list. Uncomfortable for a few weeks a year? Certainly. Living hell? I don't think so.

cupoftea said:
My child complains frequently about the condition of the bathrooms but never once has expressed a wish for AC in the classrooms. There are many things that need to be addressed in regards to the physical facilities of our aging school buildings. I'm just not sure AC is at the very tippy top of the priority list. Uncomfortable for a few weeks a year? Certainly. Living hell? I don't think so.

Certainly things that come before AC include:

- bathroom rennovations

- proper wiring

- proper heating

campbell29 said:
I grew up in the south and attended new construction schools in the 70's and 80's. no AC


The school my son goes to schoolnow in NJ was constructed in the 70's.... No AC.


My college kid goes to school in the south, no AC in her dorm


It takes a lot of Money to engineer and implement AC in new construction. It takes even more to retrofit AC. Since AC would be probably used at most for a month, even in places like FL, most schools have no AC because it is more fiscally appropriate to invest in stuff other than central air that is used for a month a year

Not sure where and when you visited public schools in Florida. Every one I've ever visitedis blasting AC. My grands have to wear sweaters and hoodies to school.

Tom_R said:
The last time I looked, the expense of a one-time-expenditure would be carried forward to the following year's budget as part of the base budget, and every year going forward.

This statement is an example of the attitude that spending more money on education is to be minimized or avoided wherever possible. And as long as school funding is done the way it is now, which is also part of that bigger societal ill I've been posting about, then we will continue to nickel and dime our schools.

Maybe we will (or maybe we won't) solve the AC problem, but until there is a major change in attitude in this country about taxation and social needs in general and education in particular, we will continue to have these kinds of discussions.

cupoftea said:
My child complains frequently about the condition of the bathrooms but never once has expressed a wish for AC in the classrooms. There are many things that need to be addressed in regards to the physical facilities of our aging school buildings. I'm just not sure AC is at the very tippy top of the priority list. Uncomfortable for a few weeks a year? Certainly. Living hell? I don't think so.

^This. And if it was at the top of the priority list I'd have a bigger issue given we've already been too guilty of deferred maintenance to begin with. Which is sort of what I've been alluding to above. It's all well and good to want this, and citing negative educational impacts to further support it as a need can make for plausible arguments, but it's all about the benjamins at this point. And AC just doesn't make the grade IMO.

sac said:

Tom_R said:
The last time I looked, the expense of a one-time-expenditure would be carried forward to the following year's budget as part of the base budget, and every year going forward.

This statement is an example of the attitude that spending more money on education is to be minimized or avoided wherever possible. And as long as school funding is done the way it is now, which is also part of that bigger societal ill I've been posting about, then we will continue to nickel and dime our schools.
Maybe we will (or maybe we won't) solve the AC problem, but until there is a major change in attitude in this country about taxation and social needs in general and education in particular, we will continue to have these kinds of discussions.

To whom do you ascribe such an attitude such an attitude?

TomR

Tom_R said:

sac said:

Tom_R said:
The last time I looked, the expense of a one-time-expenditure would be carried forward to the following year's budget as part of the base budget, and every year going forward.

This statement is an example of the attitude that spending more money on education is to be minimized or avoided wherever possible. And as long as school funding is done the way it is now, which is also part of that bigger societal ill I've been posting about, then we will continue to nickel and dime our schools.
Maybe we will (or maybe we won't) solve the AC problem, but until there is a major change in attitude in this country about taxation and social needs in general and education in particular, we will continue to have these kinds of discussions.

To whom do you ascribe such an attitude such an attitude?
TomR

American society in general and people who make statements about the impact of paying for needed improvements on future school budgets. If that's your issue, then lobby against that mechanism of budgeting, not against the needed expenditure.

I realize this is an incredibly pollyanish question - but can I just buy an A/C unit and leave it on the doorstep of one of the schools?

Turandot said:
I realize this is an incredibly pollyanish question - but can I just buy an A/C unit and leave it on the doorstep of one of the schools?

I wouldn't recommend this approach. Ask your PTA officials about the status of A/C in your school. They will know the details and can recommend how best to help.

In most school buildings, rooms that do not have a window unit already installed probably have wiring/electric issues that will not support the use of a window unit.

@Turandot, if the schools can accept units, I would be more than happy to help run a drive to collect them. With so many people getting central air, there are usually lots to be donated!

Turandot said:
I realize this is an incredibly pollyanish question - but can I just buy an A/C unit and leave it on the doorstep of one of the schools?

If they can take donations, I think it would be a great idea. I taught at the Cornish School, in the town of J. D.Salinger. He loved to attend meetings at the school, in the many years before I moved there.There was a beautiful all-purpose/gym/auditorium and a library acquired through "anonymous donations." I'm not saying Salinger gave all the $$. In a state (NH) in which schools are not supported by property taxes, it was a great thing to donate. Why not in SOMA?

deborahg said:
@Turandot, if the schools can accept units, I would be more than happy to help run a drive to collect them. With so many people getting central air, there are usually lots to be donated!

Classrooms need a large AC - something like a 24,000 BTU unit - to be effective.

springgreen2 said:

Turandot said:
I realize this is an incredibly pollyanish question - but can I just buy an A/C unit and leave it on the doorstep of one of the schools?

If they can take donations, I think it would be a great idea. I taught at the Cornish School, in the town of J. D.Salinger. He loved to attend meetings at the school, in the many years before I moved there.There was a beautiful all-purpose/gym/auditorium and a library acquired through "anonymous donations." I'm not saying Salinger gave all the $$. In a state (NH) in which schools are not supported by property taxes, it was a great thing to donate. Why not in SOMA?

Do you not understand electricity?

If it were as simple as buying A/C units, it would be done already. This has been explained 50 times already.

@mjh, whether it's feasible or not, insulting people who would like to help seems way out of line.

Except that all of this was discussed within the first 10 posts. The issue isn't the units, it is the power.

I don't disagree, but I don't think it's the whole story. In my 15 years with kids in the district, I have successfully donated multiple a/cs that are currently in use. It's not as clear to me as it apparently is to you that the electrical systems have been completely maxed out in every single district school.

While this is a systemic problem, it may be possible to provide relief in designated (by school administration) areas that need it the most. This is how it has worked in the past. If you have updated, definitive information that this is no longer the case, please share it. If not, how about you keep quiet unless you have something positive to add.

deborahg said:
I don't disagree, but I don't think it's the whole story. In my 15 years with kids in the district, I have successfully donated multiple a/cs that are currently in use. It's not as clear to me as it apparently is to you that the electrical systems have been completely maxed out in every single district school.


While this is a systemic problem, it may be possible to provide relief in designated (by school administration) areas that need it the most. This is how it has worked in the past. If you have updated, definitive information that this is no longer the case, please share it. If not, how about you keep quiet unless you have something positive to add.

DG,

If you consult the MOL Rules of Engagement, you will see that it clearly says that if a point has been made previously and somebody does then refer to same point again, resort to insulting responses is warranted.

deborahg said:
@mjh, whether it's feasible or not, insulting people who would like to help seems way out of line.

I'm sorry for being rude. I admit I find it very frustrating when people won't take the time to listen/read/learn from people who have worked on the problem for 15 years and have valuable information to share about what it will take to solve it.

New ideas are welcome and necessary, but at least take a moment to learn from the work that's already been done.

Norwalk CT schools closing early today due to HEAT...

If I could wave a wand and get AC into the rest of the classrooms WITHOUT cutting costs elsewhere or raising taxes across the board to pay for it, I'd be fine with it. If there are no impediments to doing all purchasing and electrical though voluntary fund-drives, then sure.

(although I would say that should raise the carbon burden of our schools as little as possible, so I'd hate to see us veer toward office-style over-cooling and the need to send kids to school in winter clothes on 90 degree days)

But I just spent two hours in one of our school gyms. It was warm, but not awful, with the outside temps already up to 90. Kids were coming and going happily, and teachers and kids were generally dressed for the weather. Learning was taking place, as children eagerly scanned the book fair and made their lists.

Would I work in an office that was only partially air-conditioned in weather like this? Well, yes, if I could do so under the same conditions as the schools.

1. Allowed to dress for the weather, rather than wear business clothing (so yes, parents and teachers need to view a weather report and choose clothes appropriately...I made one of my children change this morning when he forgot to wear summer clothes)

2. Able to shift to a workspace elsewhere in the building (or out under a tree) for part of the day if my space were one of the worse ones

3. Ample installation of fans in the non-AC rooms, windows that open, etc.

4. Only having to deal with extreme heat for a few days in June and September

I wouldn't be thrilled to be working in the partial-AC heat, but it just wouldn't be the same as the heat-wave day the power died in my old sealed-window, suit-clad business office.

I find it almost worse to have some rooms with AC and some without. The kids dress for summer then go in and out of 65 degree AC rooms and 80 degree rooms.

My kids have had more complaints about the ancient heating in their schools (some rooms so hot the windows were open in February, some chilly) than they have ever had with the lack of AC.

I was going to make that same comment about the heat. That's what I remember from the Maplewood/South Orange schools from when I attended years ago. Winter was terrible because some rooms were so super hot and we had to dress warmly to walk to school.

I find it a little bizarre that it seems reasonable to send our kids to schools under conditions we would not readily accept in our workplace. Where I work, it is routinely too cold which is a waste of money. And the money spend on landscaping is kind of trashy actually. Plant evergreens around Christmas. Spring flowers in spring. Summer flowers in the summer and so on. Too bad that money can't be redirected to a good cause.

Oh well, you can always tell what a society really worships by looking at where the money is spent. We worship weapons and corporations.