Do you know how hot it is in some SOMSD classrooms?

tjohn said:

spontaneous said:
Hold the main office to the same standard as the classrooms. If they are not able to put AC in each and every classroom then the main office cannot have it either. Same goes for the board of Ed building. They can do the same that we did when I was in school, open the windows, turn off the lights, and fan themselves with folded pieces of notebook paper. Once administration is subjected to the same conditions as teachers and students I think they'll find a way to make sure that all the classrooms have AC.

I just can't stay away.

So, are you saying that the administration has some secret slush fund they can use to purchase ACs if they really wanted to?

No. I'm saying they have AC, have had it since I was a kid. Yet in decades have not been able to find the funds to get AC to all the classrooms. If admin were held to the same standards as ALL the classrooms they would find a way to get AC in all the classrooms.

And don't forget, this is the same school system that wanted to build a state of the art aquatics center.

ETA: FWIW My son's school didnt have AC last year, and it got hot. But it was a case of everyone dealing with it equally, not a case of classrooms getting the shaft while admin sat in cool comfort

I was thinking of ceiling fans, too.

One point I will make is the school offices are open during the summer. The secretaries and administrators have to work a different annual schedule and spend more time in the buildings than teachers and students during hot weather.

It would be great if the schools could install heavy duty roof exhaust fans to pull air through the classrooms. We had one in our old house and it provided a steady breeze with little noise downstairs. Plus it's not nearly the energy consumption of air conditioning.

I agree it's long past the time when major infrastructure improvements should have been undertaken in our schools.

dg64 said:
I was thinking of ceiling fans, too.

Check out some of the monster ceiling fans that were installed years ago in some classrooms. They're great if you're underneath them, not so much if you're not. Also, LOUD.

mrincredible said:

dg64 said:
I was thinking of ceiling fans, too.

Check out some of the monster ceiling fans that were installed years ago in some classrooms. They're great if you're underneath them, not so much if you're not. Also, LOUD.

I know about those monstrosities, but I was thinking of quieter, smaller modern marvels

mrincredible said:
One point I will make is the school offices are open during the summer. The secretaries and administrators have to work a different annual schedule and spend more time in the buildings than teachers and students during hot weather.

Great point. Which should effectively end the debate about admins having AC I hope. Unless one is now going to suggest that the Administration not use them in June and Sept out of some twisted sense of equality and fairness, of course. Which would be hilarious, but still.

ctrzaska said:

mrincredible said:
One point I will make is the school offices are open during the summer. The secretaries and administrators have to work a different annual schedule and spend more time in the buildings than teachers and students during hot weather.

Great point. Which should effectively end the debate about admins having AC I hope. Unless one is now going to suggest that the Administration not use them in June and Sept out of some twisted sense of equality and fairness, of course. Which would be hilarious, but still.

No one is suggesting that admins should click off their AC's. That's not the point and u know it

Well if we've just established that the ACs are needed by the Administration during summer months, and they don't have to click them off during those months bookending the school year, maybe I'm missing something. Why, exactly, are we even discussing it? Surely it's not because anyone seriously thinks the Administration is operating under some twisted I've-got-mine-so-who-cares-about-you mindset. And it's clear that the capital expense to putting them in classrooms isn't even remotely comparable by any scale. So what IS the point?

krugle1 said:
Need to raise taxes on the rich, and stop fighting wars.

Precisely.

ctrzaska said:
And it's clear that the capital expense to putting them in classrooms isn't even remotely comparable by any scale. So what IS the point?

How much would it cost? They don't need new wiring and AC units for every classroom since many already have them. They just need to catch up the ones that don't. I agree with the previous statement about weeks of teaching time being lost due to heat. It was the same when I was young, and if anything the hot weather season has only been extended today vs back when I was in school.

How many people were arguing that building an aquatics center was a worthwhile expense? Yet trying to get AC into all the classrooms so the kids can better concentrate while trying to learn is a waste of money?

annielou said:
Somehow, here in 2015, people believe that teachers and their students should endure 6 hours a day under conditions that they themselves would not accept in their own homes or work places. Sure many of us grew up "dealing with it" but this isn't 1960. Septembers are more like Augusts and June is also pretty bad. The most outrageous thing, and I'm not sure if this is true in our schools, is that sometimes main offices and administration offices are like meat lockers while kids and teachers swelter.There was an initiative in NYC a few years back to air condition classrooms, maybe in conjunction with private companies?Can't recall how many classrooms benefitted but quite a few were done. Rewiring and maintence contracts are costly, agreed, bt if this was done in NYC I would be interested to know how such an initiative could be done elsewhere.

+100

ctrzaska said:
Well if we've just established that the ACs are needed by the Administration during summer months, and they don't have to click them off during those months bookending the school year, maybe I'm missing something. Why, exactly, are we even discussing it? Surely it's not because anyone seriously thinks the Administration is operating under some twisted I've-got-mine-so-who-cares-about-you mindset. And it's clear that the capital expense to putting them in classrooms isn't even remotely comparable by any scale. So what IS the point?

The point of the thread I believe is a dissatisfaction with conditions in the schools during the hot months when school is in session. If heat were not a factor in cognitive performance, then AC's would not exist in nearly every workplace in America. According to studies reported by the NY Times, optimum productivity begins to decrease starting at 78 degrees. Other studies point to differences in test performance in schools with and without bearable temperatures

spontaneous said:

ctrzaska said:
And it's clear that the capital expense to putting them in classrooms isn't even remotely comparable by any scale. So what IS the point?

How much would it cost? They don't need new wiring and AC units for every classroom since many already have them. They just need to catch up the ones that don't. I agree with the previous statement about weeks of teaching time being lost due to heat. It was the same when I was young, and if anything the hot weather season has only been extended today vs back when I was in school.
How many people were arguing that building an aquatics center was a worthwhile expense? Yet trying to get AC into all the classrooms so the kids can better concentrate while trying to learn is a waste of money?

It isn't as easy as adding circuits to a classroom. The whole building needs to be capable of handling the total amperage. Most of these schools have insufficient service to the building. Adding 10 more 10 amp units adds 100 amps to the load overall, for example.

tjohn said:
I will just conclude my remarks in this thread by saying that the state of our national infrastructure, including public schools is disgraceful for a country as wealthy as ours. We have spend the last 50 years mortgaging our future in a variety of ways - neglect of infrastructure, underfunding pensions, etc. - and the time is coming when we have to pay for these sins.
Among other things, school students should be provided with decent facilities.

On a national level, this just should not be acceptable. Somehow they can always find billions for new military equipment - including a good bit that the military apparently doesn't even want. Redirect some of that to infrastructure and a lot could be accomplished! It is unconscionable that it is considered acceptable for students and teachers to have to endure sweltering workplaces in the 21st century. As a society, our priorities are seriously messed up in this regard. Of course it can't be fixed overnight, but we ought to have the fixes in motion rather than wringing our hands and declaring it impossible.

What is really absurd is that they didn't include AC in the new science wing at MMS that was completed last year. Since that wing is otherwise a fully modern structure -- i.e. relatively airtight -- it is consequently the hottest area in the school and utterly stifling this time of the year.

Schools Are Not Cool

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/schools-are-not-cool/

Edited to add:

Yes, that is absurd @weirdbeard

weirdbeard said:
What is really absurd is that they didn't include AC in the new science wing at MMS that was completed last year. Since that wing is otherwise a fully modern structure -- i.e. relatively airtight -- it is consequently the hottest area in the school and utterly stifling this time of the year.

Do they at least have windows that open fully in that wing? Or do they have those stupid vent windows that just tease you with a hint of air that ends up highlighting just how hot and miserable you are

It's going to be hot again next week. Another week lost.

.

If you were to do a cost benefit analysis, for the maybe five weeks a year a/c would be needed, how much of the school district's capital budget would you be willing to spend?

Eta: what would you be willing to forego, too?

Steve said:
If you were to do a cost benefit analysis, for the maybe five weeks a year a/c would be needed, how much of the school district's capital budget would you be willing to spend?
Eta: what would you be willing to forego, too?

I suppose I can forego a military adventure here and there.

It isn't a question what we should forego from our existing school budget unless you believe current levels of spending are about right.

Wrong This would be a total local expenditure Saying you'd forego a military adventure is a dishonest answer if you want to have a real discussion as to whether or not the SOMSD buildings should have A/C installed. The Feds aren't going to come in and pay for it and I don't know that folks are willing to pay higher taxes for it.

I am personally holding out hope that some research on test scores and high temperatures will push the issue. I am a teacher at another school and the high temps make it very difficult.

Steve said:
Wrong This would be a total local expenditure Saying you'd forego a military adventure is a dishonest answer if you want to have a real discussion as to whether or not the SOMSD buildings should have A/C installed. The Feds aren't going to come in and pay for it and I don't know that folks are willing to pay higher taxes for it.

It is not a dishonest answer if you look at the overall problem which is that our society devalues education and favors the military disproportionately over education and other human rights and needs. If people/law-makers really valued education to the extent that they should, there would be no question that virtually all of our crumbling buildings, lack of A/C and many other educational needs would be made a priority to be fixed. This is not just a SOMSD problem, it is a national problem. (I'm not talking just about A/C, as that has been solved in many places, but just the overall attitude about the importance of education vs military adventures and other funding priorities.)

You're right, but so is Steve. We all agree about the need for good physical classrooms. The reality is that the feds are not going to help, and neither will the state. If we want it, we have to pay for it either by offsetting cuts or increasing taxes or fees. I would be willing to pay a one time assessment for this, but I can see why others would not. This is not an easy problem to solve. That's why my approach with my child has been to downplay it.

You can "downplay it" all you want. It's still suffering and stifling misery.

I am personally holding out hope that some research on test scores and high temperatures will push the issue. I am a teacher at another school and the high temps make it very difficult.

Its unreasonable. A/C is needed. Its not that can take outside breaks in the breeze. You dump 30 in a room with an outside temp of 90 and above and you have your living hell.

At least, before they get around to doing A/C is to have heat days. Close the schools when the forecast is 90 and above.

To build a new wing, like the science wing without A/C wasn't too smart. But many knew, including MOL members, of the new wing. It seems an oversight, the public didn't think of. I wonder if the architect brought up the A/C option?

Okay BG9, you tell all of the working parents that they have to find childcare for an extra 10 days per year. Do you agree with my idea for a special assessment? We want it, will you help me pay for it?

In South Orange we now pay a sewer tax of $285. per year, and quite honestly, I've never seen anyone clean the darn sewer in 15 years. Could there be some private/public partnership to provide funds for AC in the schools? There's a solution somewhere in this