Dining out spreads contagion of COVID-19. Scientific Fact or Political Fiction?

how does this:

"all booked because of this COVID-19 political fiction that somehow dining out spreads COVID-19."

make any sense at all? Restaurants are booked because people think that dining out spreads COVID?

whut?

ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 This is the third week in a row that I try to get a dinner reservation.  This time a full 24 hours ahead for a birthday and all restaurants in Maplewood, Montclair, etc... all booked because of this COVID-19 political fiction that somehow dining out spreads COVID-19.  

Are you trying for a Friday or Saturday night at prime-time?  Over the summer I've gotten reservations very early or on weekday nights without a problem. (That said -- I also did tend to reserve more than 24 hours ahead, I think, but there were other tables still available when we were dining).

Try Bistro d'Azur or Pickett's. I had no issues. However, if you knew you were going out for a birthday why wouldn't you have made the reservation sooner? Those who fail to plan plan to fail. 

FWIW in summer we often eat after 9pm, but then we don’t go to bed until midnight or later especially if it’s a long weekend or we’re on holidays (on vacation). 
But yeah, as others have noted, for special occasion dining, we book as soon as we know the date and likely venue then conform the numbers 24 hours ahead so we at least have the table. 
(Apparently the big trend over here is fancy picnics, any time of day or evening. Larger permitted dining numbers  )

Jaytee said:

Mr Upset tax payer, 

You must call a couple of days before for a reservation, it has nothing to do with vaccines. I was up in Montclair last weekend for dinner and had to reserve 3 days in advance. 
How do you think this virus is being spread? Curious minds want to know.

 A very good question Jaytee, thank you for asking that.  First, I must say that I disagree that restaurant reservations should be made three days or more in advance.  That has never been so.

On a related note, I also disagree that the reason why restaurants are not able to fill your reservation with 24 hours advance notice is because everyone coming back to dining out is flooding their reservation systems.  The reason restaurants are having difficulty confirming reservations with even a week's notice is the political fear mongering that keeps insisting that dining out contributes to COVID-19 spread.  If this were true, (and it is not true), we would have a tremendously overwhelmed hospital capacity issue.  Also, people would be dying in record numbers around the globe, not just in Maplewood.  Half of a countries population would be wiped out.  People have to eat, and they are not going to stop dining out.  The way this affects the reservation systems, and small business as a whole is that a few non-expert, non-scientific people are insisting on perpetuating the lie for political purposes.  This causes unrealistic restrictions to restaurants to serve their community and/or patrons.  So, it's not about the restaurants being flooded with patrons (that would be the justification for the political incompetence argument) because then we have to see local politicians as people who saved business and actually increased potential business for small business, it's about the limited ability to serve the population of people wanting to dine out based on a lie.  I have the perfect example.  Here it is:

The politics of the local community never shut down illegal massage parlors, but they instantly shut down all restaurant business.  Now logic tells you, if we believe the political fiction, COVID-19 could be spread just as easily in an illegal massage joint as it can in a restaurant setting.  If dining out were as dangerous as out politicians tell us, then illegal massage parlors should have been shut down indefinitely from the early days of COVID-19.

Now you can joke about this, but every community, including ours has these illegal massage parlors.  They were uninterrupted throughout the pandemic to date, and no one in our leadership even speaks about it.  However, dining out has been specifically targeted as the root of all evils, and this has hurt a lot of small business in our communities.  We lost Kings supermarket, and all other restaurants and eateries have been impacted severely over wide spread speculation at best.  

Now you asked me how I think COVID-19 is spread.  My answer is I do not know.  I do not think we know all the ways COVID-19 is spread yet including our incompetent leadership.  Including the CDC.  We just don't know.  I will say this though, I've spoken to many doctors and they are angry that the U.S. has had to rely mostly on data from Israel and the U.K. to provide healthcare workers with information and they are frustrated with the slow and inept roll out of help related to COVID-19.  I have talked to doctors that believe this virus is not spread through droplets.  I talked about it in one of my previous posts on this thread.

There is absolutely no link between dining out and spread of COVID-19.

ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 Actually, there's really nothing worth reading from CHTP here. 

ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 A very good question Jaytee, thank you for asking that.  First, I must say that I disagree that restaurant reservations should be made three days or more in advance.  That has never been so.

On a related note, I also disagree that the reason why restaurants are not able to fill your reservation with 24 hours advance notice is because everyone coming back to dining out is flooding their reservation systems.  The reason restaurants are having difficulty confirming reservations with even a week's notice is the political fear mongering that keeps insisting that dining out contributes to COVID-19 spread.  If this were true, (and it is not true), we would have a tremendously overwhelmed hospital capacity issue.  Also, people would be dying in record numbers around the globe, not just in Maplewood.  Half of a countries population would be wiped out.  People have to eat, and they are not going to stop dining out.  The way this affects the reservation systems, and small business as a whole is that a few non-expert, non-scientific people are insisting on perpetuating the lie for political purposes.  This causes unrealistic restrictions to restaurants to serve their community and/or patrons.  So, it's not about the restaurants being flooded with patrons (that would be the justification for the political incompetence argument) because then we have to see local politicians as people who saved business and actually increased potential business for small business, it's about the limited ability to serve the population of people wanting to dine out based on a lie.  I have the perfect example.  Here it is:

The politics of the local community never shut down illegal massage parlors, but they instantly shut down all restaurant business.  Now logic tells you, if we believe the political fiction, COVID-19 could be spread just as easily in an illegal massage joint as it can in a restaurant setting.  If dining out were as dangerous as out politicians tell us, then illegal massage parlors should have been shut down indefinitely from the early days of COVID-19.

Now you can joke about this, but every community, including ours has these illegal massage parlors.  They were uninterrupted throughout the pandemic to date, and no one in our leadership even speaks about it.  However, dining out has been specifically targeted as the root of all evils, and this has hurt a lot of small business in our communities.  We lost Kings supermarket, and all other restaurants and eateries have been impacted severely over wide spread speculation at best.  

Now you asked me how I think COVID-19 is spread.  My answer is I do not know.  I do not think we know all the ways COVID-19 is spread yet including our incompetent leadership.  Including the CDC.  We just don't know.  I will say this though, I've spoken to many doctors and they are angry that the U.S. has had to rely mostly on data from Israel and the U.K. to provide healthcare workers with information and they are frustrated with the slow and inept roll out of help related to COVID-19.  I have talked to doctors that believe this virus is not spread through droplets.  I talked about it in one of my previous posts on this thread.

There is absolutely no link between dining out and spread of COVID-19.

 It seems as though you were in some isolated mountain retreat with no access to information. 
What you are saying is covid19 might be a hoax perpetrated by our leaders and the CDC ? 
You’re obsessed with dining out. How about the supermarket? The stores? You should wear a mask in any environment where there’s lots of people sharing the same airspace. How do you think trumpenstein got covid? 

Brothels and massage parlours as measure of community health?? That’s a new one! 
Anyway, yeah, in Australia sex workers are angry because they have been closed down, and there’s talk of closing down online and phone options too (though I’ll admit I don’t know enough about the last two, in the pandemic context). 
Honestly, as weird as this conversation getting, it’s also funny. 

PeterWick said:

 Actually, there's really nothing worth reading from CHTP here. 

 it's got to be a joke. The combination of stupidity and arrogance has to be for the purpose of trolling. 

ml1 said:

PeterWick said:

 Actually, there's really nothing worth reading from CHTP here. 

 it's got to be a joke. The combination of stupidity and arrogance has to be for the purpose of trolling. 

 I dunno. Those long posts exhibit an awful lot of work for a joke.

also, is this thread sinking?

It is in sink mode at the moment.

drummerboy said:

ml1 said:

PeterWick said:

 Actually, there's really nothing worth reading from CHTP here. 

 it's got to be a joke. The combination of stupidity and arrogance has to be for the purpose of trolling. 

 I dunno. Those long posts exhibit an awful lot of work for a joke.

also, is this thread sinking?

 some people are vey impressed by their own "cleverness."  So for a person like that it's not work.  It's fun!

Restaurants and businesses across the country are finding it difficult to hire/keep staff now. Employees are just not willing to do an always challenging and now risky job (serving unmasked customers) for such low wages.

There are many other reasons for the labor shortages, of course, but the bottom line is that restaurants lacking employees are forced to limit the number of tables they book, meals they prepare etc.

It's not a limitation imposed by local governments, it's a practical response.

joanne said:

Brothels and massage parlours as measure of community health?? That’s a new one! 
Anyway, yeah, in Australia sex workers are angry because they have been closed down, and there’s talk of closing down online and phone options too (though I’ll admit I don’t know enough about the last two, in the pandemic context). 
Honestly, as weird as this conversation getting, it’s also funny. 

 What we are saying in Maplewood Township is that we trust the hygiene practices of illegal massage parlors over food preparation professionals.  The Township shuttered many small business restaurants, but left illegal massage parlors open.  The point is, if you are trying to stop the spread, and you come up with dining out as a major spreader event, then what you are saying is that the small business professionals who take classes to ensure their businesses are free of bacteria etc... is inferior to the maintenance practices of an illegal massage joint.  That is absurd!  For example, any decent food establishment who wants to stay in business has to know at what temperature to cook a chicken to avoid bacterial spread, they have to properly clean their food stations around the clock, and they are heavily inspected and regulated by the Township health department and fined or closed down if they do not comply with such practices.  Now if dining out was such a huge problem in terms of spreading COVID-19, the question still stands.  Why do Townships allow illegal massage joints to continue their business without interruption?  Should the food establishments start taking hygiene tips from illegal massage joints?  I wouldn't want to eat in a restaurant like that.  That was a decision by the Township of Maplewood from the early days of COVID-19.

ril said:

Restaurants and businesses across the country are finding it difficult to hire/keep staff now. Employees are just not willing to do an always challenging and now risky job (serving unmasked customers) for such low wages.

There are many other reasons for the labor shortages, of course, but the bottom line is that restaurants lacking employees are forced to limit the number of tables they book, meals they prepare etc.

It's not a limitation imposed by local governments, it's a practical response.

 I am happy to report that I had a fabulous dinner last night with a beautiful woman.  The restaurant opened this week and had a catering event and a fully functional bar area.  The attendance was incredible.  Everyone was out for a good time.  It was fabulous.  To my knowledge, no one was rushed to the hospital or died after having a very pleasant night out.  The wait staff did have masks, but most if not all of the patrons of the landmark restaurant were not wearing masks.  No one asked for proof of vaccination.  It was a fantastic dinner reservation to celebrate a birthday. Go out, support your communities, stop listening to stupid politics.

what a tsunami of stupid

Though you chose to quote me in sharing your pleasant night out (glad you & yours enjoyed it), your post is not a response. And you make little sense. No one got sick or rushed to the hospital? I think you're confusing covid with food poisoning. But how could you possibly even know that, or whether anyone tested positive for covid later?

Sheesh, why do I fall for this trollish behavior. I'm out.

I wonder then, why waitstaff still wear masks when patrons are not required to when dining indoors?

The same could be asked for hospitals and health clinics. Of course, it's warranted because there are sick people coming in and out, some COVID+ and some not, and the staff who must work in that indoor environment are at risk of catching COVID as well as inadvertently spreading it.

Oh, wait, does "inadvertently spreading it" mean someone who is COVID+ may not know it while they're infectious? It has been well-documented that even some unvaccinated people can have an asymptomatic infection. Then there are vaccinated people who are even more likely to not notice at all if they've been infected.

So, thou of the spurious claims, would you risk having that beautiful woman you're trying to convince us actually exists getting infected? What about relatives or friends, if you have any that is?

BTW, it was worth it.

What MOL wants to know is this the same beautiful woman as the one in his first post?

ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 What we are saying in Maplewood Township is that we trust the hygiene practices of illegal massage parlors over food preparation professionals.  The Township shuttered many small business restaurants, but left illegal massage parlors open.  The point is, if you are trying to stop the spread, and you come up with dining out as a major spreader event, then what you are saying is that the small business professionals who take classes to ensure their businesses are free of bacteria etc... is inferior to the maintenance practices of an illegal massage joint.  That is absurd!  For example, any decent food establishment who wants to stay in business has to know at what temperature to cook a chicken to avoid bacterial spread, they have to properly clean their food stations around the clock, and they are heavily inspected and regulated by the Township health department and fined or closed down if they do not comply with such practices.  Now if dining out was such a huge problem in terms of spreading COVID-19, the question still stands.  Why do Townships allow illegal massage joints to continue their business without interruption?  Should the food establishments start taking hygiene tips from illegal massage joints?  I wouldn't want to eat in a restaurant like that.  That was a decision by the Township of Maplewood from the early days of COVID-19.

 this is an example of how difficult it is to troll over a multitude of posts. Eventually you tip into territory that's so absurd you give yourself away. 

drummerboy said:

What MOL wants to know is this the same beautiful woman as the one in his first post?

 nope. An even beautifuler woman. 

ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 I am happy to report that I had a fabulous dinner last night with a beautiful woman.  The restaurant opened this week and had a catering event and a fully functional bar area.  The attendance was incredible.  Everyone was out for a good time.  It was fabulous.  To my knowledge, no one was rushed to the hospital or died after having a very pleasant night out.  The wait staff did have masks, but most if not all of the patrons of the landmark restaurant were not wearing masks.  No one asked for proof of vaccination.  It was a fantastic dinner reservation to celebrate a birthday. Go out, support your communities, stop listening to stupid politics.

Happy birthday. I hope you are vaccinated. We recently lost a tough-as-nails MOL poster to COVID. I'm guessing these beautiful women think you are a hottie and a fascinating conversationalist, and you have a bright future to live for.

drummerboy said:

What MOL wants to know is this the same beautiful woman as the one in his first post?

 Yep… she’s the one who forced the town to get an electrician ASAP…she was not walking through memorial park in total darkness with our local town crier.

PeterWick said:

I wonder then, why waitstaff still wear masks when patrons are not required to when dining indoors?

The same could be asked for hospitals and health clinics. Of course, it's warranted because there are sick people coming in and out, some COVID+ and some not, and the staff who must work in that indoor environment are at risk of catching COVID as well as inadvertently spreading it.

Oh, wait, does "inadvertently spreading it" mean someone who is COVID+ may not know it while they're infectious? It has been well-documented that even some unvaccinated people can have an asymptomatic infection. Then there are vaccinated people who are even more likely to not notice at all if they've been infected.

So, thou of the spurious claims, would you risk having that beautiful woman you're trying to convince us actually exists getting infected? What about relatives or friends, if you have any that is?

 I am happy to report that yesterday I enjoyed a very lavish, pleasant, meal with several people on a rooftop in Hoboken, New Jersey with private guitar player and performer.  Everyone had a very good meal, most people present, including some physicians reported they had been infected and now had a very high antibody count in their system.  In other words, the weathered the storm and carry on with their lives as usual, for a simple reason.  They have no choice and they realize all of this talk of contagion through droplets in restaurants in nonsense.  The beautiful babe was with me as well, as well as some family members.  Little by little, it is starting to come out that all these surrounding communities are just not buying the stuff reported erroneously on the news for political gain.  You should have seen Route 1&9 and the Pulaski Skyway last night at 7:30pm.  It was packed as if it were rush hour.  Everybody was going somewhere to get away from the lies and the boredom and have a good time.  I also went to see a doctor recently and I was found to be negative for COVID.  I asked, if I am coming in for a common cold, why do I need to be tested for COVID, and the doctor told me that though he had been vaccinated himself, he was one of the first breakthrough cases.  Thus, vaccination does not prevent you from getting COVID either, that is why most people do not understand these political mandates in NYC and other places that are causing people to lose their jobs, etc... As for your more involved and complex questions about this virus I suggest you ask the CDC or Dr. Anthony Fraudci, they seem to be providing all sorts of invaluable information that changes by the hour.  Talk about spurious claims.

sprout said:

Happy birthday. I hope you are vaccinated. We recently lost a tough-as-nails MOL poster to COVID. I'm guessing these beautiful women think you are a hottie and a fascinating conversationalist, and you have a bright future to live for.

 I am vaccinated.  I believe in vaccines.  I tend to favor the ones that cure or eradicate diseases rather than those the provide a political band aid.  

Woman, not women.  I'm a one woman type of man.

drummerboy said:

how does this:

"all booked because of this COVID-19 political fiction that somehow dining out spreads COVID-19."

make any sense at all? Restaurants are booked because people think that dining out spreads COVID?

whut?

 Politicians!  Politicians believe dining out spreads COVID.  That is what they are peddling.  Most people obviously do not care about what a politician says, that is why they have not given up on dining out.  Unfortunately, some people, mostly the middle income to low income people cannot find places to make reservations, since most places are booked by the wealthy weeks in advance thanks to the heavy restrictions leveled on hard working small business restauranteurs by the phony, political flavor of the day, politicians.

Last night I was telling the story about how Townships refuse to close down illegal massage parlors, but insist on strong restrictions against restaurant owners and people laugh because they know this is ridiculous.  They all started to say, "yeah there are a lot of those nasty places everywhere, goodness knows what you would find in one of those places if you shined a blue light around the room, but restaurants oh yeah restaurants, that you really have to watch."  I understand political passion, but sometimes people have to admit, things get very strange.  Do you believe there is better hygiene in an illegal massage parlor/brothel than a restaurant?  Do you believe illegal massage parlors/brothels have the potential to spread more or less COVID than restaurants?  Maybe we should ask the politicians in our Township which they believe spreads more COVID and why?  By now, the governor or all states in the United States should have used their power to close down all those places immediately.  When this thing started you couldn't go to a hair salon or a nail salon remember?  How do we know it is the restaurants and not something else?  Are illegal massage parlors/brothels "essential businesses" like liquor stores?  None of this makes any logical sense, but nobody asks these questions so nothing ever changes.

ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

 I am happy to report that yesterday I enjoyed a very lavish, pleasant, meal with several people on a rooftop in Hoboken, New Jersey with private guitar player and performer.  Everyone had a very good meal, most people present, including some physicians reported they had been infected and now had a very high antibody count in their system.  In other words, the weathered the storm and carry on with their lives as usual, for a simple reason.  They have no choice and they realize all of this talk of contagion through droplets in restaurants in nonsense.  The beautiful babe was with me as well, as well as some family members.  Little by little, it is starting to come out that all these surrounding communities are just not buying the stuff reported erroneously on the news for political gain.  You should have seen Route 1&9 and the Pulaski Skyway last night at 7:30pm.  It was packed as if it were rush hour.  Everybody was going somewhere to get away from the lies and the boredom and have a good time.  I also went to see a doctor recently and I was found to be negative for COVID.  I asked, if I am coming in for a common cold, why do I need to be tested for COVID, and the doctor told me that though he had been vaccinated himself, he was one of the first breakthrough cases.  Thus, vaccination does not prevent you from getting COVID either, that is why most people do not understand these political mandates in NYC and other places that are causing people to lose their jobs, etc... As for your more involved and complex questions about this virus I suggest you ask the CDC or Dr. Anthony Fraudci, they seem to be providing all sorts of invaluable information that changes by the hour.  Talk about spurious claims.

 as a public service maybe you could list the names of those physicians who don't believe COVID spreads through the air so we can avoid such quacks.

I must be slow on the uptake, but I still can't follow how restaurants being shut down by covid restrictions leads to restaurants so full it's hard to get a reservation. Or where all those people on the 1&9 are going if everything is shut down.

Ah well -- at this point I don't actually believe CHTP is trying to make any point about covid at all, just trying to stir up reactions on MOL. The earlier posters who called him on this were completely correct.

PVW said:

I must be slow on the uptake, but I still can't follow how restaurants being shut down by covid restrictions leads to restaurants so full it's hard to get a reservation.

My smarts and sophistication were no match for that puzzler, either. All I could figure was that capacity restrictions were causing restaurants to fill up faster. Except the thing about capacity restrictions is …