Dare We Call It Treason?

WASHINGTON — Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s
2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated
contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before
the election, according to four current and former American officials.

But the intercepts alarmed American intelligence and law enforcement
agencies, in part because of the amount of contact that was occurring
while Mr. Trump was speaking glowingly about the Russian president,
Vladimir V. Putin. At one point last summer, Mr. Trump said at a
campaign event that he hoped Russian intelligence services had stolen
Hillary Clinton’s emails and would make them public.

The officials said the intercepted communications were not limited to Trump
campaign officials, and included other associates of Mr. Trump. On the
Russian side, the contacts also included members of the Russian
government outside of the intelligence services, the officials said. All
of the current and former officials spoke on the condition of anonymity
because the continuing investigation is classified.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html

this is getting seriouser and seriouser.

but not even surprising.

drummerboy said:

this is getting seriouser and seriouser.

but not even surprising.

Think about Watergate. The burglary, the coverup and the tapes. It did a president in. They were ready to impeach.

This is 10x worse. Will they impeach? I doubt it. There is no honor or decency in this Republican congress.

And you can't tell me that the many conversations the Trump team had with Putin's security apparatchiks were innocuous. Anyone saying that is either terminally naive or on Putin's payroll.

What's remarkable is that there was no one on the campaign that didn't think "hmm, wonder if NSA monitors calls to the Russians?"

Even Flynn. He was head of DIA - I mean, wtf? Freaking amateur.

Yeah, this could be huge - but it all depends on whether it's just a media story, or whether Congress gets involved. And I am hanging no hopes on this Congress. At least not until they get their tax cuts for the rich. Which Trump will probably hold over their heads.

I see a long haul.

BG9 said:

drummerboy said:

this is getting seriouser and seriouser.

but not even surprising.

Think about Watergate. The burglary, the coverup and the tapes. It did a president in. They were ready to impeach.

This is 10x worse. Will they impeach? I doubt it. There is no honor or decency in this Republican congress.

And you can't tell me that the many conversations the Trump team had with Putin's security apparatchiks were innocuous. Anyone saying that is either terminally naive or on Putin's payroll.

If DT is impeached, Pence would reign and wouldn't that make life easier for the GOP?

.

mlj said:

If DT is impeached, Pence would reign and wouldn't that make life easier for the GOP?

Yep. And just as miserable for Dems. Globally it's a win, though.

But, wishful thinking for many aside, it ain't treason.

ctrzaska said:

But, wishful thinking for many aside, it ain't treason.

that remains to be seen. the last time I checked Russia is a foreign power, and one that is not exactly an American ally.

ctrzaska said:

mlj said:

If DT is impeached, Pence would reign and wouldn't that make life easier for the GOP?

Yep. And just as miserable for Dems. Globally it's a win, though.

hmm, yes in a different not as fearful way. Policies would be implemented that attack social security and medicare, that leave our poorest even poorer and enrich our richest. Safety nets of all kinds will continue to be endangered and the theft of American resources will continue as the privatizations roll on.

I hate republican policies. Truly hate them, and they will be implemented swiftly following corporatist scripts under Pence, and the religious zealot that Pence is will create a horror for LGBT people as Obama's policies are undone.

Still he is a preferable choice to Trump. By far.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2017/02/14/republican-painter-s-time-impeach-trump/97893248/

ctrzaska said:

But, wishful thinking for many aside, it ain't treason.

So, you're in the "None Call It Treason" cohort.

Russia is not our friend. They're inimical to us politically and economically and under Putin to our beliefs such as a free unfettered press and human rights.

One definition of treason is "a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state".

I find likely that the many Trump team interactions with the Russian security services may have violated our country. One violation would be to say there won't be any repercussions if Russia meddled in our elections to help Trump. They would have added a sweetener saying a Trump win would cause a reset with Russia. One result of the reset would be a look into the loosening or lifting of sanctions.

The general rule with Republicans is to get a VP that is basically rotten or useless or stupid. Hence Bush and Quayle, Nixon and Agnew, Bush Jr and Cheney. Generally, with that bunch, impeachment wouldn't help the country.

Now we have Trump and Pence. Sadly bad as Pence is, he is better than Trump. We have seen how bad Trump really is.

whether it's treason or not depends on what was discussed, I guess.

And we don't know what was discussed, so to not call it treason is a bit premature. Certainly the possibility exists.

A President Pence would not be any better in terms of policy, but it would undoubtedly be better for returning a sense of competency to the Presidency, so that's something.

drummerboy said:

A President Pence would not be any better in terms of policy, but it would undoubtedly be better for returning a sense of competency to the Presidency, so that's something.

That's what I'm thinking. Pence has go to be better than this incompetent, vindictive, insecure narcissist who is easily manipulated.

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

I am a trumpet player, and hence, a "trumpeter", so I take great offense at your use of the word "Trumpeter".

Please do not besmirch my noble instrument.

Trumpist is the preferred word.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

drummerboy said:

I am a trumpet player, and hence, a "trumpeter", so I take great offense at your use of the word "Trumpeter".

Please do not besmirch my noble instrument.

Go figure. Here I had you pegged as a harper.

heh

DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

I am a trumpet player, and hence, a "trumpeter", so I take great offense at your use of the word "Trumpeter".

Please do not besmirch my noble instrument.

Go figure. Here I had you pegged as a harper.

Trump was dead in the water 10 times in the campaign. Don't count those chickens yet.

drummerboy said:

I am a trumpet player, and hence, a "trumpeter", so I take great offense at your use of the word "Trumpeter".


Please do not besmirch my noble instrument.

Trumpist is the preferred word.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

Actually I think it is Trumpetier

As a trumpeter for more about 50 years, I have to disagree. Never even heard that word before. Google reports less than 5000 hits. To me that's basically zero.

ska said:

drummerboy said:

I am a trumpet player, and hence, a "trumpeter", so I take great offense at your use of the word "Trumpeter".


Please do not besmirch my noble instrument.

Trumpist is the preferred word.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

Actually I think it is Trumpetier

drummerboy said:

As a trumpeter for more about 50 years, I have to disagree. Never even heard that word before. Google reports less than 5000 hits. To me that's basically zero.

ska said:

drummerboy said:

I am a trumpet player, and hence, a "trumpeter", so I take great offense at your use of the word "Trumpeter".


Please do not besmirch my noble instrument.

Trumpist is the preferred word.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

Actually I think it is Trumpetier

No, I meant the spelling for the word for a person who is a Trump butt boy is Trumpetier. To distinguish it from a trumpeter.

nah, too close to trumpeter. I like trumpist. or assh0le. Either works for me.

ska said:

drummerboy said:

As a trumpeter for more about 50 years, I have to disagree. Never even heard that word before. Google reports less than 5000 hits. To me that's basically zero.

ska said:

drummerboy said:

I am a trumpet player, and hence, a "trumpeter", so I take great offense at your use of the word "Trumpeter".


Please do not besmirch my noble instrument.

Trumpist is the preferred word.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

Actually I think it is Trumpetier

No, I meant the spelling for the word for a person who is a Trump butt boy is Trumpetier. To distinguish it from a trumpeter.

Ryan is a lying con man. Kind of like a smarter, more competent Trump.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

ml1 said:

Ryan is a lying con man. Kind of like a smarter, more competent Trump.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

Perhaps, but I do not view him as a great threat to freedom and safety.

if you're on Medicare or collecting Social Security he's a threat to your safety.

LOST said:

ml1 said:

Ryan is a lying con man. Kind of like a smarter, more competent Trump.

LOST said:

The Trumpeters kept Pence out of the loop and made him look stupid. If that continues Pence might choose to quit.Then Congress can get rid of Trump one way or another. We'd end up with Ryan. I disagree with his views but he is a sane wonk. At least the discussions and disagreements would be about policy and the Dems could contrast their policies to Ryan's in a serious manner.

Perhaps, but I do not view him as a great threat to freedom and safety.

This is Trump - things get rocky he holds a large rally:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-trump-rally-set-for-melbourne-20170215-story.html

So far, my favorite tweet on the subject:

And yes, we can start calling it treason.

you can be sure he'll be stoking the anger at the press, the intelligence community and the Democrats.

ska said:

This is Trump - things get rocky he holds a large rally:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-trump-rally-set-for-melbourne-20170215-story.html