Can a good person vote for Trump?

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

jeffhandy said:

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

Ah, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle applied to politics.

You are making me thirsty.

ctrzaska said:

ml1 said:

Good people sometimes do bad things

Shocking, isn't it?

a classless boor?

That's your summary of Trump?

I'm embarrassed for you.

terp said:

Let me see if I have this correct.

• You're bad if you vote for Trump because he's a classless boor
• You're bad if you don't vote because you fail to exercise this precious privilege you've been blessed with
• You're bad if you vote '3rd party' because you are wasting this precious priveledge

So, you can only be good if you vote for HRC.

Is that it?

well put. I'm willing to give a pass to the hopelessly clueless, but good at heart.

It's a small percentage of the Trumpists, however.

jeffhandy said:

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

drummerboy said:

a classless boor?

That's your summary of Trump?

I'm embarrassed for you.

terp said:

Let me see if I have this correct.

• You're bad if you vote for Trump because he's a classless boor
• You're bad if you don't vote because you fail to exercise this precious privilege you've been blessed with
• You're bad if you vote '3rd party' because you are wasting this precious priveledge

So, you can only be good if you vote for HRC.

Is that it?

Ha. If you wanted to dodge the question you could have simply not responded.

whoopdie doo. Can you make a more meaningless statement?

ml1 said:

Good people sometimes do bad things

This kind of fervent anti-Trump people reminds me...well it reminds me of Trump.

drummerboy said:

well put. I'm willing to give a pass to the hopelessly clueless, but good at heart.

It's a small percentage of the Trumpists, however.

jeffhandy said:

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

the places one finds cluelessness continue to astound....

Trying to explain Trump to you appears to be as futile as explaining it to a deplorable.

I'm sorry you don't get it.

terp said:

This kind of fervent anti-Trump people reminds me...well it reminds me of Trump.

drummerboy said:

well put. I'm willing to give a pass to the hopelessly clueless, but good at heart.

It's a small percentage of the Trumpists, however.

jeffhandy said:

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

Frighteningly Hilarious how you continue to prove my point. Your response is vapid and demeaning. Who does that remind me of again?

drummerboy said:

the places one finds cluelessness continue to astound....

Trying to explain Trump to you appears to be as futile as explaining it to a deplorable.

I'm sorry you don't get it.

terp said:

This kind of fervent anti-Trump people reminds me...well it reminds me of Trump.

drummerboy said:

well put. I'm willing to give a pass to the hopelessly clueless, but good at heart.

It's a small percentage of the Trumpists, however.

jeffhandy said:

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

There are two "anti" positions for Trump. You either disagree with his policies, or you think he's dangerously unqualified, regardless of his policies.

Anyone who doesn't see the latter needs to have their vision checked.

ice said:




You are the kind of person that actlually tempts me to vote for Trump. Does that make you a bad person?

Voting for Trump solely as a reaction to drummerboy would make you a bad person.

terp said:

Frighteningly Hilarious how you continue to prove my point. Your response is vapid and demeaning. Who does that remind me of again?

drummerboy said:

the places one finds cluelessness continue to astound....

Trying to explain Trump to you appears to be as futile as explaining it to a deplorable.

I'm sorry you don't get it.

terp said:

This kind of fervent anti-Trump people reminds me...well it reminds me of Trump.

drummerboy said:

well put. I'm willing to give a pass to the hopelessly clueless, but good at heart.

It's a small percentage of the Trumpists, however.

jeffhandy said:

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

yes. as you continue to prove mine. The difference is that I've posted extensively why Trump support is inherently a bad thing. You've posted nothing to prove otherwise, other than being apologetic towards Trumpists for reasons that you do not make clear.

terp said:

Frighteningly Hilarious how you continue to prove my point. Your response is vapid and demeaning. Who does that remind me of again?

drummerboy said:

the places one finds cluelessness continue to astound....

Trying to explain Trump to you appears to be as futile as explaining it to a deplorable.

I'm sorry you don't get it.

terp said:

This kind of fervent anti-Trump people reminds me...well it reminds me of Trump.

drummerboy said:

well put. I'm willing to give a pass to the hopelessly clueless, but good at heart.

It's a small percentage of the Trumpists, however.

jeffhandy said:

I believe that you can be a good person and vote for Trump.

I believe that you can be an informed person and vote for Trump.

I do not however believe that you can be both.

and, by the way, Trump's comment the other night about appointing a special prosecutor already sets him up for impeachment.

Tell me again why Trump supporters get any kind of pass? Every day it becomes clearer and clearer that support of Trump is morally indefensible. If you strongly believe in something that is morally indefensible, that's a big "BAD" mark in your Book of Life. St. Peter will not look kindly upon you.

Drummerboy,

Tell us again why you are engaged in this pointless criticism of Trump supporters other than to indulge your sickening self-righteousness. Certainly if voting for Trump was even an option, I would due so in response to your continued condescending treatment of half of America.

drummerboy said:

and, by the way, Trump's comment the other night about appointing a special prosecutor already sets him up for impeachment.

Tell me again why Trump supporters get any kind of pass? Every day it becomes clearer and clearer that support of Trump is morally indefensible. If you strongly believe in something that is morally indefensible, that's a big "BAD" mark in your Book of Life. St. Peter will not look kindly upon you.

that's a sad statement, and you're completely mis-reading my posts. I think.

I am criticizing the mentality of Trump supporters, not to convince them (I know it is futile and beyond my personal abilities) but to try and parse out what exactly they're doing - as far as we can figure out.

Valid criticism is neither "pointless" or "condescending".

What is happening regarding Trumpism is pretty closely aligned to the election of Hitler. (and the fact that this is rarely, rarely brought up, in spite of its obvious connection, simply proves my point. The media and the people are afraid to even consider what's happening - the truth is truly frightening.)

We have never seen (and hopefully will never see again) a phenomenon like this in our lifetimes. I choose not to avoid it.

Apparently, you choose to.

tjohn said:

Drummerboy,

Tell us again why you are engaged in this pointless criticism of Trump supporters other than to indulge your sickening self-righteousness. Certainly if voting for Trump was even an option, I would due so in response to your continued condescending treatment of half of America.

drummerboy said:

and, by the way, Trump's comment the other night about appointing a special prosecutor already sets him up for impeachment.

Tell me again why Trump supporters get any kind of pass? Every day it becomes clearer and clearer that support of Trump is morally indefensible. If you strongly believe in something that is morally indefensible, that's a big "BAD" mark in your Book of Life. St. Peter will not look kindly upon you.

I'm not sure how to lessen the divisions in our country and I'm not sure how to restored the discussion of ideas to politics. What I do know is that your continued rantings about how horrible Trump supporters are as well as the superiority of HRC are part of the problem, not the solution.

I find myself right now desperately wanting a third choice - one with more or less the same domestic policies as HRC, but want not bent on war with Russia.

drummerboy said:

that's a sad statement, and you're completely mis-reading my posts. I think.

I am criticizing the mentality of Trump supporters, not to convince them (I know it is futile and beyond my personal abilities) but to try and parse out what exactly they're doing - as far as we can figure out.

Valid criticism is neither "pointless" or "condescending".

What is happening regarding Trumpism is pretty closely aligned to the election of Hitler. (and the fact that this is rarely, rarely brought up, in spite of its obvious connection, simply proves my point. The media and the people are afraid to even consider what's happening - the truth is truly frightening.)

We have never seen (and hopefully will never see again) a phenomenon like this in our lifetimes. I choose not to avoid it.

Apparently, you choose to.

tjohn said:

Drummerboy,

Tell us again why you are engaged in this pointless criticism of Trump supporters other than to indulge your sickening self-righteousness. Certainly if voting for Trump was even an option, I would due so in response to your continued condescending treatment of half of America.

drummerboy said:

and, by the way, Trump's comment the other night about appointing a special prosecutor already sets him up for impeachment.

Tell me again why Trump supporters get any kind of pass? Every day it becomes clearer and clearer that support of Trump is morally indefensible. If you strongly believe in something that is morally indefensible, that's a big "BAD" mark in your Book of Life. St. Peter will not look kindly upon you.

you say my technique is not useful for bringing us together. I disagree. Unless our side attempts to understand what/why/how the eff the other side is doing, there is NO WAY TO BRING US TOGETHER.

These folks are fundamentally different from others. But let's not talk about their motivations and dispositions because it sounds mean. Yes my own personal position will not create friends, but someone tell me another way to approach it that sounds better. I hear none of that. Because no one knows. Because they ignore thinking about it.

No, it is useful. You can see people coming together right here on MOL in opposition to your preachy self-righteousness. Keep at it and soon HRC and Trump supporters will be singing Kumbaya together around the campfire.

drummerboy said:

you say my technique is not useful for bringing us together. I disagree. Unless our side attempts to understand what/why/how the eff the other side is doing, there is NO WAY TO BRING US TOGETHER.

These folks are fundamentally different from others. But let's not talk about their motivations and dispositions because it sounds mean. Yes my own personal position will not create friends, but someone tell me another way to approach it that sounds better. I hear none of that. Because no one knows. Because they ignore thinking about it.

Anyway, Drummerboy, you do realize that at least some people voting for Trump are just so frustrated with the status quo that they are voting for anything but. It is a little hard to argue that this time voting for the status quo will be different.

I agree with your assessment. But I shake my head at the fact that many (probably most) will also vote for their incumbent GOP congressperson and senator.

tjohn said:

Anyway, Drummerboy, you do realize that at least some people voting for Trump are just so frustrated with the status quo that they are voting for anything but. It is a little hard to argue that this time voting for the status quo will be different.

I think its a religious argument. Many voters are going to vote their party, regardless of the awfulness that represents it.

There's definitely a direct influence in the middle american states that places the republican party platform on its list of things that are to be supported on faith. Until that pact is broken (until these folks wake up), you can say their blind loyalty will be a cause to support anything that is nominated on the R side.

doesn't make them bad, it makes them sheep.

ml1 said:

I agree with your assessment. But I shake my head at the fact that many (probably most) will also vote for their incumbent GOP congressperson and senator.

Same applies to DNC voters who will pull the lever for their incumbent assembly person and state senator even if they voted for the working/middle class tax increase (i.e. gas tax).

LOL

drummerboy said:

you say my technique is not useful for bringing us together. I disagree.

very witty.

tell me your technique for resolving the divide. Perhaps a Kumbaya sing-a-long?

imonlysleeping said:

LOL

drummerboy said:

you say my technique is not useful for bringing us together. I disagree.

er, being a sheep ain't good.

"Bad" and "good" are kind of poor choices for words for this topic, but it's what we got.

hoops said:

I think its a religious argument. Many voters are going to vote their party, regardless of the awfulness that represents it.

There's definitely a direct influence in the middle american states that places the republican party platform on its list of things that are to be supported on faith. Until that pact is broken (until these folks wake up), you can say their blind loyalty will be a cause to support anything that is nominated on the R side.

doesn't make them bad, it makes them sheep.

Unlike you - and I do acknowledge your superiority in all matters - I don't rule out the possibility that I am also a sheep from time to time. Maybe that is why I am not so quick to condemn all Trump supporters as a bunch if hillbillies.

drummerboy said:

er, being a sheep ain't good.

"Bad" and "good" are kind of poor choices for words for this topic, but it's what we got.

hoops said:

I think its a religious argument. Many voters are going to vote their party, regardless of the awfulness that represents it.

There's definitely a direct influence in the middle american states that places the republican party platform on its list of things that are to be supported on faith. Until that pact is broken (until these folks wake up), you can say their blind loyalty will be a cause to support anything that is nominated on the R side.

doesn't make them bad, it makes them sheep.

"hillbillies"? your words, not mine. No wonder you don't agree. You're misreading me. By a lot.

Anyway, I'm not saying at all that my current focus on trying to figure out why they support Trump qualifies me to be a negotiator during The Great Reconciliation, but you definitely want me in the back room.

tjohn said:

Unlike you - and I do acknowledge your superiority in all matters - I don't rule out the possibility that I am also a sheep from time to time. Maybe that is why I am not so quick to condemn all Trump supporters as a bunch if hillbillies.

drummerboy said:

er, being a sheep ain't good.

"Bad" and "good" are kind of poor choices for words for this topic, but it's what we got.

hoops said:

I think its a religious argument. Many voters are going to vote their party, regardless of the awfulness that represents it.

There's definitely a direct influence in the middle american states that places the republican party platform on its list of things that are to be supported on faith. Until that pact is broken (until these folks wake up), you can say their blind loyalty will be a cause to support anything that is nominated on the R side.

doesn't make them bad, it makes them sheep.

I have a couple good friends who, for respectable reasons prefer Trump (despite his clear insanity) They base this on SCOTUS nominations, foreign policy, fiscal policy, etc They do not respect him (or HRC) but aren't ready to jump to HRC, despite his huge character flaws.

I disagree with them But I am not willing to label them as "bad"

Perhaps if they defended his character (misogamy, racism, making fun of handicapped, islamophobia, etc) I woukd respect those friends less.