Can a good person vote for Trump?

why can't I see the posts in this thread?

ok. now I can see them.

kibbegirl said:

I interviewed a woman last week who lives in Bucks County, PA. She asked was I going to watch the debates next week and I told her that I was; I asked was she? She said she was but she feels like the odd duck out in her area because she is for HRC and everyone surrounding her is for Trump. She said you can't walk a mile and not see Trump signs everywhere. She said a relative told her that the reason she has been out of work was because of "Obamacare." I mean, how can rationale people have a conversation with anyone who thinks this way?

I was in the Finger Lakes this past weekend. What was surprising was not the Trump signs we saw, but the fact that they weren't everywhere.

Just returned from Livingston and Trump is being well represented.

Anyone who is excited to vote for either candidate seems to have questionable judgement. That being said, most people here probably think I'm a bad person.

Klinker said:

LOST said:

There are people who will vote for Trump because they believe that as a Republican he will be better than Hillary on taxes, regulation of business and/or Supreme Court appointments.

Hitler made the trains run on time. He was very popular with commuters.

That was Musollini

fairplay said:

sac said:

fairplay

Nobody reading MOL is for Trump.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

In NJ, it is probably safe to vote third party vs Clinton if you don't want Trump, so I would say that good people can do that, but if enough Bernie bros or others do that, we could be in for a Brexit-like surprise.

Bernie bros will not vote for Trump.

I was referring to them voting third party (Johnson or Stein), not Trump.

a truly wonderful thing to behold, it was.

terp said:

Anyone who is excited to vote for either candidate seems to have questionable judgement. That being said, most people here probably think I'm a bad person.

First time since being of age to vote that I'm like, "meh." Voting for the devil I know vs. the devil who is a schizophrenic, narcissist with molestation tendencies.

I know a number of very good people who are planning to vote for Trump.

I won't be joining them, but to label millions of Americans as "bad" because of their support for him, when their reasons are so varied, is pretty despicable. Deplorable even.

Seriously, if you think you live in a country where like half the adult population (maybe somewhat less when the votes are in) are "not good" people, you should consider moving. Who would want to live in such a place?

Indulging in such asinine hyperbole really doesn't help your case, although I'm sure it makes you feel good about yourself, which seems to be what a lot of progressive politics is about these days anyway.

Welll, there's THAT.

ice said:

I know a number of very good people who are planning to vote for Trump.

I won't be joining them, but to label millions of Americans as "bad" because of their support for him, when their reasons are so varied, is pretty despicable. Deplorable even.

Seriously, if you think you live in a country where like half the adult population (maybe somewhat less when the votes are in) are "not good" people, you should consider moving. Who would want to live in such a place?

Indulging in such asinine hyperbole really doesn't help your case, although I'm sure it makes you feel good about yourself, which seems to be what a lot of progressive politics is about these days anyway.

+1*2^64

ice said:

I know a number of very good people who are planning to vote for Trump.

I won't be joining them, but to label millions of Americans as "bad" because of their support for him, when their reasons are so varied, is pretty despicable. Deplorable even.

Seriously, if you think you live in a country where like half the adult population (maybe somewhat less when the votes are in) are "not good" people, you should consider moving. Who would want to live in such a place?

Indulging in such asinine hyperbole really doesn't help your case, although I'm sure it makes you feel good about yourself, which seems to be what a lot of progressive politics is about these days anyway.

if you don't see the difference between supporting Trump and supporting any other freaking Republican on the planet....

Exactly what kind of positions need to be held by a candidate before support for him clearly shows a stunning lack of moral or intellectual clarity? Do you think that as long as someone is running for office, choosing to support them is de facto the moral choice, simply because the candidate has been assigned to a political party?

When Hillary said half of Trump's supporters held deplorable positions, she was being very generous.

As for those "good" people you know - yeah, I might want to re-examine those relationships. Suppose they were running around with David Duke or hell, Bin Laden bumper stickers? Still "good" people? What's the line that needs to be crossed for you? Because it obviously exists, but Trump supporters, and you, have that line deplorably low.

and p.s. - as for wanting to live in such a place - I propose that what we've seen this election is that we have a deep, deep moral rot, and I'm not crazy about living in a country where a Trump candidacy is close to being viable. It really shows how far we've lost our way.

terp said:

Anyone who is excited to vote for either candidate seems to have questionable judgement. That being said, most people here probably think I'm a bad person.

No.

This HERE is spot on.

Bush is a Republican. Reagan was a Republican. This new batch of so-called Republicans are a mixture of Tea Party and the Alt Right. All claiming to be Christians, yet are ruled by money and are cruel to the poor.

drummerboy said:

ice said:

I know a number of very good people who are planning to vote for Trump.

I won't be joining them, but to label millions of Americans as "bad" because of their support for him, when their reasons are so varied, is pretty despicable. Deplorable even.

Seriously, if you think you live in a country where like half the adult population (maybe somewhat less when the votes are in) are "not good" people, you should consider moving. Who would want to live in such a place?

Indulging in such asinine hyperbole really doesn't help your case, although I'm sure it makes you feel good about yourself, which seems to be what a lot of progressive politics is about these days anyway.

if you don't see the difference between supporting Trump and supporting any other freaking Republican on the planet....

Exactly what kind of positions need to be held by a candidate before support for him clearly shows a stunning lack of moral or intellectual clarity? Do you think that as long as someone is running for office, choosing to support them is de facto the moral choice, simply because the candidate has been assigned to a political party?

When Hillary said half of Trump's supporters held deplorable positions, she was being very generous.

As for those "good" people you know - yeah, I might want to re-examine those relationships. Suppose they were running around with David Duke or hell, Bin Laden bumper stickers? Still "good" people? What's the line that needs to be crossed for you? Because it obviously exists, but Trump supporters, and you, have that line deplorably low.




and p.s. - as for wanting to live in such a place - I propose that what we've seen this election is that we have a deep, deep moral rot, and I'm not crazy about living in a country where a Trump candidacy is close to being viable. It really shows how far we've lost our way.

Drummerboy,

If you can get past your usual totalitarian intolerance of other points of view, perhaps you can understand the pointlessness of condemning Trump supporters en masse. I certainly can't understand their various thought processes, but that doesn't make them bad people.

perhaps people need the question posed a little differently:

Can a good person be a member of the Ku Klux Kan?

Can a good person be a radical islamic terrorist? (to use a phrase that perhaps Trump supporters find meaningful.)

what makes a person bad?

(and you know your comment about my "intolerance of other poinbts of view" is completely inaccurate.)

And it's not pointless, as it leads to a discussion about ideas and morality.

tjohn said:

Drummerboy,

If you can get past your usual totalitarian intolerance of other points of view, perhaps you can understand the pointlessness of condemning Trump supporters . I certainly can't understand their various thought processes, but that doesn't make them bad people.

No on both counts. Not that it has any relevance, but there ya go.

People are voting for Trump for the same reason others are voting for HRC. This ugly election has become about identity, about who we think we are. And for many people, the perceived threat to their values from a Clinton Administration offsets Trumps piggishness. Of course, for this same reason, another pig wasn't thrown out of the Oval Office - he was seen as preferable to letting the Republicans win.

The question is kind of binary, don't you think? I mean is anyone 100% good or 100% bad? I have a fairly kind self perception and I fall well short of the 100% good standard. But, I'm not voting for Trump. So, I have that going for me....which is nice.

of course it's relevant - it shows where your line is. That's the whole point of this thread isn't? We all have a line, but some people put support for Trump on the moral/good side of the line, and some people don't.

I've made an extensive case for why it should be on the "bad" side of the line - no one has yet made a case for the opposite position.

ctrzaska said:

No on both counts. Not that it has any relevance, but there ya go.

who said anything about 100%? Why don't you deal with the actual question instead of making up your own?

terp said:

The question is kind of binary, don't you think? I mean is anyone 100% good or 100% bad? I have a fairly kind self perception and I fall well short of the 100% good standard. But, I'm not voting for Trump. So, I have that going for me....which is nice.

Good people sometimes do bad things

drummerboy said:

who said anything about 100%? Why don't you deal with the actual question instead of making up your own?

terp said:

The question is kind of binary, don't you think? I mean is anyone 100% good or 100% bad? I have a fairly kind self perception and I fall well short of the 100% good standard. But, I'm not voting for Trump. So, I have that going for me....which is nice.

Oh. Sorry, the answer is a clear and unequivocal 'yes'.

Let me see if I have this correct.

• You're bad if you vote for Trump because he's a classless boor
• You're bad if you don't vote because you fail to exercise this precious privilege you've been blessed with
• You're bad if you vote '3rd party' because you are wasting this precious priveledge

So, you can only be good if you vote for HRC.

Is that it?

drummerboy said:

in response to tjohn:
(and you know your comment about my "intolerance of other poinbts of view" is completely inaccurate.)

No, it isn't. Your views on this thread are simply more evidence, as if any were needed.

You are one of the few MOL posters who is so completely intolerant of anything but extreme (and often childish, like "they are all bad people") views that you manage to tick off even folks who would generally agree with your ultra-liberal views. You are so angry and so far left, that you end up left out, because it's so hard to take you seriously.

You are the kind of person that actlually tempts me to vote for Trump. Does that make you a bad person?

ice said:

drummerboy said:

in response to tjohn:
(and you know your comment about my "intolerance of other poinbts of view" is completely inaccurate.)

No, it isn't. Your views on this thread are simply more evidence, as if any were needed.

You are one of the few MOL posters who is so completely intolerant of anything but extreme (and often childish, like "they are all bad people") views that you manage to tick off even folks who would generally agree with your ultra-liberal views. You are so angry and so far left, that you end up left out, because it's so hard to take you seriously.

Yep.

drummerboy said:

of course it's relevant - it shows where your line is. That's the whole point of this thread isn't? We all have a line, but some people put support for Trump on the moral/good side of the line, and some people don't.

I've made an extensive case for why it should be on the "bad" side of the line - no one has yet made a case for the opposite position.

ctrzaska said:

No on both counts. Not that it has any relevance, but there ya go.

We've established that radical Islamic terrorists are bad. That might disqualify no one, but only set a bar into the sky. There is not just "a" line for many. I know some who would vote for Trump merely upon the basis of SCOTUS considerations, with more potentially long-lasting impact than he will likely ever have as President. Others I'm sure aren't voting their morality but their specific situation (rightly or wrongly) and not looking past their front door. And on and on.

ml1 said:

Good people sometimes do bad things

Shocking, isn't it?