Best countries for American conservatives if the USA were to elect a Social Democrat

There's always chatter about where liberals can live among like-minded people if this country were to move even more rightward or even go full nationalist. It's easy to come up with western democracies that align with liberal values of the American left or center-left. Germany. Canada. Italy. Slovenia. France. Any Scandinavian country. Even industrialized countries with right-ish governments are more liberal than the USA. UK. Japan.

But I recently got to thinking, where would American conservatives feel comfortable if the USA were to elect a Social Democrat? Is there an existing country that is an ideal model for the type of country that our Tea Party and Bannonists would like to create here?

I turned to my friend Google. The Quora site has a huge thread about this. The most common answer: The Philippines. Here's how a Quora member elaborated (edited to streamline):

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"The Philippines, although it is only Western in a very loose sense, being in the East and being a developing country. But the good news is the people mostly speak English. In my experience the Philippines seems like a Tea Party creation.

• It has a lower maximum tax rate (32%)
• It has a much lower capital gains tax (7.5%)
• Corporate tax is lower (30%)
• Abortion is illegal.
• Same-sex marriage is illegal
• Divorce is illegal. Although annulment is possible, it is expensive and difficult.
• The country is very nationalistic.
• Religion (Christianity) plays a huge role in the country.
• Guns are not as available as in the US but much more so than in the rest of Asia, or most of the world.
• Capitalism is only restrained by either religion (e.g. porn is illegal though enforcement is spotty at best) or nationalism (e.g. foreign companies are kept out by the 60/40 ownership law). You can't beat the shopping there. 2 of the 4 largest malls in the world are in Metro Manila and 12 of the 50 largest are in the Philippines and that is not even mentioning places like Divisoria, which is basically an enormous flea market.

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Other suggestions in the Quora forum are Kenya, Poland, any of the former SSRs, some small islands in the south Pacific.

And this answer: "There are no western democracies run along current Republican lines. Conservative parties in most of the world accept socialized public services, are generally less religious and wouldn't consider American levels of military spending."

And this one: "Honestly, if what you're looking for are strong religious sensibilities, rejection of LGBTQ rights, lack of social safety nets for the poor, institutionalized white male supremacism, robust military culture, lack of good-quality healthcare for any but the well-off, an economy and political inner circle that fawns over the rich while utterly abandoning the underprivileged, and a system of lax regulation that successful businessmen can buy their way out of; you'd probably be best off going to Russia."

What say ye, oh conservatives and libertarians?

ha. good question.

Conservatives have no Canada. Which is to say, they have no mythical land of ideological soul mates to which they can flee to nurse their wounds and commiserate over lost elections and flunked initiatives.

What about Mother Russia? It's ironic, but the so called socialist country isn't, really.

For people concerned w/ Economic freedom, America has been slipping in those rankings. These rankings include various facets(property rights, tax structure, regulations, etc).

I would think a good place to start for many people would be the first 15 nations.

If I was a young man without family established here, Hong Kong would be an interesting destination. I will say that I'd make sure my passport was kept up to date if I went there. But, nothing's perfect.

It seems to me that it might depend on a person's profession or business. There are many who would be attracted by low taxes and little regulation of business but would not be happy with abortion being illegal or homosexuality being denigrated.

BTW did anyone leave because Obama was elected?

Has anyone left because Trump was elected.

I have never heard a political motivation or even suspected one while watching House Hunters International.

terp said:

For people concerned w/ Economic freedom, America has been slipping in those rankings. These rankings include various facets(property rights, tax structure, regulations, etc).

I would think a good place to start for many people would be the first 15 nations.

If I was a young man without family established here, Hong Kong would be an interesting destination. I will say that I'd make sure my passport was kept up to date if I went there. But, nothing's perfect.

I'm talking about Tea-Party-perfect (AKA today's GOP). Most of the countries on the list you cite are far from the ideal of today's GOP because there is way too much government intrusion into private life.

Philippines seems about right because, in addition to a low tax rate, it aligns with today's GOP on such issues as abortion, LGBTQ rights, religion, and guns. They also get rid of drug dealers.

shoshannah said:

I'm talking about Tea-Party-perfect (AKA today's GOP). Most of the countries on the list you cite are far from the ideal of today's GOP because there is way too much government intrusion into private life.

Philippines seems about right because, in addition to a low tax rate, it aligns with today's GOP on such issues as abortion, LGBTQ rights, religion, and guns. They also get rid of drug dealers.

So in theory and perhaps practice Democrats like drug dealers around to supply their constituents in order to keep them voting Democrat

Actually, if you take a broader view(outside of economics), the US is falling more rapidly.

The United States ranks 23rd in the the index, having fallen from 16th place in 2008 and 19th place in 2013 to 23rd place in this year’s report.

“The U.S. performance is worrisome and shows that he United States can no longer claim to be the leading bastion of liberty in the world,” said Vásquez. “In addition to the expansion of the regulatory state and drop in economic freedom, the war on terror, the war on drugs and the erosion of property rights due to greater use of eminent domain all likely have contributed to the U.S. decline.”

shoshannah said:

terp said:

For people concerned w/ Economic freedom, America has been slipping in those rankings. These rankings include various facets(property rights, tax structure, regulations, etc).

I would think a good place to start for many people would be the first 15 nations.

If I was a young man without family established here, Hong Kong would be an interesting destination. I will say that I'd make sure my passport was kept up to date if I went there. But, nothing's perfect.

I'm talking about Tea-Party-perfect (AKA today's GOP). Most of the countries on the list you cite are far from the ideal of today's GOP because there is way too much government intrusion into private life.

Philippines seems about right because, in addition to a low tax rate, it aligns with today's GOP on such issues as abortion, LGBTQ rights, religion, and guns. They also get rid of drug dealers.

lord_pabulum said:

shoshannah said:
I'm talking about Tea-Party-perfect (AKA today's GOP). Most of the countries on the list you cite are far from the ideal of today's GOP because there is way too much government intrusion into private life.

Philippines seems about right because, in addition to a low tax rate, it aligns with today's GOP on such issues as abortion, LGBTQ rights, religion, and guns. They also get rid of drug dealers.

So in theory and perhaps practice Democrats like drug dealers around to supply their constituents in order to keep them voting Democrat

In theory and in practice Democrats don't believe in having the government gun down drug dealers on the street. We believe in due process. And many of us believe in drug-law reform.

Except in the case of Presidential kill lists. Right?

shoshannah said:

Democrats don't believe in gunning down drug dealers on the street. We believe in due process.

terp said:

Except in the case of Presidential kill lists. Right?

shoshannah said:

Democrats don't believe in gunning down drug dealers on the street. We believe in due process.

Not analogous. I am not going to derail this thread.

Is there a country out there that is a model for what you would like to see here? I can easily name other prosperous countries that are models for what I'd like to see here. But I am wondering which countries conservatives (social and economic) look to for inspiration.

I don't understand. You believe in due process or you don't?

Americans have been renouncing their citizenship in growing numbers throughout the Obama presidency. I'm not aware of any study on the reasons.

LOST said:

BTW did anyone leave because Obama was elected?

Has anyone left because Trump was elected.

I have never heard a political motivation or even suspected one while watching House Hunters International.

terp said:

Americans have been renouncing their citizenship in growing numbers throughout the Obama presidency. I'm not aware of any study on the reasons.

LOST said:

BTW did anyone leave because Obama was elected?

Has anyone left because Trump was elected.

I have never heard a political motivation or even suspected one while watching House Hunters International.

Tax purposes

Kenya. Ha! As a Kenyan I can tell you, you can be as conservative or liberal or as socialist as far as your dollars can stretch you. Everything, every.single.thing has a $$ price. I'd be surprised if Kenya wasn't top 15 of the most corrupt governments in the world. Nothing is sacred. IMHO. Carry on.

oops

oy.

because the U.s. , at 16th is an economic pariah, right?

Germany is 30th. S. Korea is 42nd.

Two of the most thriving economies on the planet.

Good research there. I believe it.

terp said:

For people concerned w/ Economic freedom, America has been slipping in those rankings. These rankings include various facets(property rights, tax structure, regulations, etc).

I would think a good place to start for many people would be the first 15 nations.

If I was a young man without family established here, Hong Kong would be an interesting destination. I will say that I'd make sure my passport was kept up to date if I went there. But, nothing's perfect.

Hey there Poppa Bear, that is some serious O'Reilly level thinking there. Who said anything about being a pariah?

The study is about economic freedom. It is not about economic prosperity. These are different, yet related things. Economies, especially those with well structured capital and cultures that stress hard work, education, etc can be prosperous for some time even after the burden of economic repression is introduced.

drummerboy said:

oy.

because the U.s. , at 16th is an economic pariah, right?

Germany is 30th. S. Korea is 42nd.

Two of the most thriving economies on the planet.

Good research there. I believe it.

terp said:

For people concerned w/ Economic freedom, America has been slipping in those rankings. These rankings include various facets(property rights, tax structure, regulations, etc).

I would think a good place to start for many people would be the first 15 nations.

If I was a young man without family established here, Hong Kong would be an interesting destination. I will say that I'd make sure my passport was kept up to date if I went there. But, nothing's perfect.

True. And specifically that you cannot escape the reach of the IRS anywhere in the globe. That is, for the time being, a uniquely American experience.

ridski said:

terp said:

Americans have been renouncing their citizenship in growing numbers throughout the Obama presidency. I'm not aware of any study on the reasons.

LOST said:

BTW did anyone leave because Obama was elected?

Has anyone left because Trump was elected.

I have never heard a political motivation or even suspected one while watching House Hunters International.

Tax purposes

The study is about economic freedom. It is not about economic prosperity.

Read that a few times.

terp said:

Hey there Poppa Bear, that is some serious O'Reilly level thinking there. Who said anything about being a pariah?

The study is about economic freedom. It is not about economic prosperity. These are different, yet related things. Economies, especially those with well structured capital and cultures that stress hard work, education, etc can be prosperous for some time even after the burden of economic repression is introduced.

drummerboy said:

oy.

because the U.s. , at 16th is an economic pariah, right?

Germany is 30th. S. Korea is 42nd.

Two of the most thriving economies on the planet.

Good research there. I believe it.

terp said:

For people concerned w/ Economic freedom, America has been slipping in those rankings. These rankings include various facets(property rights, tax structure, regulations, etc).

I would think a good place to start for many people would be the first 15 nations.

If I was a young man without family established here, Hong Kong would be an interesting destination. I will say that I'd make sure my passport was kept up to date if I went there. But, nothing's perfect.

Ha. You realize my quote is right below that. That is a statement of fact, as the study that you derided early on for no reason other than you didn't like it's conclusions is about Economic Freedom.

I'm sure this matters little to you because you don't care about freedom. You want the elites to decide what freedoms people have, which poor people will be killed by "Mindless Killers". Hey, as long as the leader is polite you are ok.

Just wondering: How many of these points do you agree with?

terp said:

True. And specifically that you cannot escape the reach of the IRS anywhere in the globe. That is, for the time being, a uniquely American experience.

ridski said:

terp said:

Americans have been renouncing their citizenship in growing numbers throughout the Obama presidency. I'm not aware of any study on the reasons.

LOST said:

BTW did anyone leave because Obama was elected?

Has anyone left because Trump was elected.

I have never heard a political motivation or even suspected one while watching House Hunters International.

Tax purposes

And why I still haven't filled out that Form N-400 that's been sitting on my desk since November 9th.

you're descending into self-parody. Keep it up. It's amusing.

terp said:

Ha. You realize my quote is right below that. That is a statement of fact, as the study that you derided early on for no reason other than you didn't like it's conclusions is about Economic Freedom.

I'm sure this matters little to you because you don't care about freedom. You want the elites to decide what freedoms people have, which poor people will be killed by "Mindless Killers". Hey, as long as the leader is polite you are ok.

Just wondering: How many of these points do you agree with?

I will. I will.

I does seem as though some of those hit home. Huh?

drummerboy said:

you're descending into self-parody. Keep it up. It's amusing.

terp said:

Ha. You realize my quote is right below that. That is a statement of fact, as the study that you derided early on for no reason other than you didn't like it's conclusions is about Economic Freedom.

I'm sure this matters little to you because you don't care about freedom. You want the elites to decide what freedoms people have, which poor people will be killed by "Mindless Killers". Hey, as long as the leader is polite you are ok.

Just wondering: How many of these points do you agree with?

I didn't bother reading it past the first few lines.

terp said:

I will. I will.

I does seem as though some of those hit home. Huh?

drummerboy said:

you're descending into self-parody. Keep it up. It's amusing.

terp said:

Ha. You realize my quote is right below that. That is a statement of fact, as the study that you derided early on for no reason other than you didn't like it's conclusions is about Economic Freedom.

I'm sure this matters little to you because you don't care about freedom. You want the elites to decide what freedoms people have, which poor people will be killed by "Mindless Killers". Hey, as long as the leader is polite you are ok.

Just wondering: How many of these points do you agree with?

You say that an awful lot. You do realize that the Tale of Two Cities doesn't end with "It was the best of times. It was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way—in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

Yeah?

drummerboy said:

I didn't bother reading it past the first few lines.

terp said:

I will. I will.

I does seem as though some of those hit home. Huh?

drummerboy said:

you're descending into self-parody. Keep it up. It's amusing.

terp said:

Ha. You realize my quote is right below that. That is a statement of fact, as the study that you derided early on for no reason other than you didn't like it's conclusions is about Economic Freedom.

I'm sure this matters little to you because you don't care about freedom. You want the elites to decide what freedoms people have, which poor people will be killed by "Mindless Killers". Hey, as long as the leader is polite you are ok.

Just wondering: How many of these points do you agree with?

I still want to know which other country most closely matches what conservatives want to see here with regard to social (illegal abortion, no gay rights, no equal pay for equal work, no civil rights, prayer in school, teaching creationism in public schools, no worker protections, et al.) and economic (no financial regulations) policies.

when you post something on the level of Tale of Two Cities, then you'll have a point.

Until then, I can decide for myself whether anything is worth reading, or more to the point, whether I need to waste my time answering 100 questions to prove to you that I'm not a fascist.

terp said:

You say that an awful lot. You do realize that the Tale of Two Cities doesn't end with "It was the best of times. It was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way—in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."




Yeah?

drummerboy said:

I didn't bother reading it past the first few lines.

terp said:

I will. I will.

I does seem as though some of those hit home. Huh?

drummerboy said:

you're descending into self-parody. Keep it up. It's amusing.

terp said:

Ha. You realize my quote is right below that. That is a statement of fact, as the study that you derided early on for no reason other than you didn't like it's conclusions is about Economic Freedom.

I'm sure this matters little to you because you don't care about freedom. You want the elites to decide what freedoms people have, which poor people will be killed by "Mindless Killers". Hey, as long as the leader is polite you are ok.

Just wondering: How many of these points do you agree with?