Bernie's 2020 Campaign: August 2016 - At least through April, apparently
nan said:
ridski said:
Told y'all Trump's gonna win, didn't I?
You did. You were right and I'm ready to invest heavily in dystopian fiction. This might help your career.
I smell sour grapes.
Weekend at Biden’s does as well or better in H2H polls v Trump than Bernie does. Trump is hugely vulnerable right now with the markets falling and the economy teetering. Sure Joe can be a bit foggy these days but I for one am confident he’ll surround himself with a strong team. Even if he’s just a figurehead president who sits in his rocking chair drooling and nods yes or shakes his head no on policy questions, he’ll be a huge improvement over the current occupant of 1600 Penn Ave.
Biden wasn’t my choice but the people have spoken and he’s gonna be the nominee. As I’ve said previously, people don’t want no dang revolution, so Bernie could never expand his base beyond the millennial kids who want free stuff.
nan said:
I'm not responsible for electing a senile guy who will lose to Trump. I know I will be blamed as I was when the corporatist warmonger lost.
I may not have been clear. You were responsible for spreading the tweet. I blame you for that (since you had asked), and for spreading the video after it.
Smedley said:
I smell sour grapes.
Weekend at Biden’s does as well or better in H2H polls v Trump than Bernie does. Trump is hugely vulnerable right now with the markets falling and the economy teetering. Sure Joe can be a bit foggy these days but I for one am confident he’ll surround himself with a strong team. Even if he’s just a figurehead president who sits in his rocking chair drooling and nods yes or shakes his head no on policy questions, he’ll be a huge improvement over the current occupant of 1600 Penn Ave.
Biden wasn’t my choice but the people have spoken and he’s gonna be the nominee. As I’ve said previously, people don’t want no dang revolution, so Bernie could never expand his base beyond the millennial kids who want free stuff.
Biden is senile and offers nothing. Does anyone remember a single proposal he came up with for his campaign? He will do nothing to change our healthcare system, which has no controls for cost.
Coronavirus reveals the real dangers of our broken healthcare system, that costs more than any other in the world and gives poor outcomes. Now we will have lots of people going to work sick (no paid sick leave for many), and not going to the hospital because they either don't have insurance or a deductible too high to pay. There will be super tragic stories written about parents and children dying because of this. Go Fund Me will make a fortune. Medicare for All would have been cheaper than what we have now. The healthcare lobby controlled the media narrative and they have invested in Biden.
If you voted for Biden, these tragedies are partially on you. He will not unify anyone. He will get us closer to yellow vests and pitchforks.
nan said:
I was in the Democratic Party and I will be leaving to find a new one. I always felt it was pointless to go 3rd party since only two parties can win, but now that I see that they won't let a Progressive win in any party, I might as well put my energy elsewhere.
Brilliant logic.
Leave one of the only two parties who can win, weakening the one closer to your values, ensuring that the “more horrible” one wins.
Great plan there.
BG9 said:
jamie said:
Did Bernie ever attempt to unite the Democratic Party? Or was it always about him and the revolution?
Being rhetorical?
I don't think Bernie's goal was ever to unite the Democratic Party. He has always said, since 2016 and before, that his road to victory depended on motivating a massive turnout among new, (mostly young) voters.
He has, obviously, failed at that.
ml1 said:
I'm voting for Biden. But my concern is that while Trump is indeed far more awful an authoritarian than any previous president, as well as a hateful bigot, and an incompetent executive, simply just getting him out of office is like taking an aspirin to try to cure cancer. I don't see Biden or Democrats in Congress doing any more than the bare minimum out of concern for their donors (and themselves) to address the real problems that are gutting the middle and working classes. Clearly Democratic primary voters are also not ready for anything other than marginal change, and getting the orange man out of the White House. So to that extent Biden is giving the Democratic base what they want.
But four years from now the country is still going to have tremendous wealth inequality, no attempts at making health care and college affordable, millions of people working in gig professions with no benefits, and millions of people living paycheck to paycheck. Fertile ground for a more competent, articulate and attractive right wing populist autocrat to take the country further down the path Trump has blazed.
I hope I'm wrong and Democrats have learned the lesson of neoliberal failure. But I don't think they have, and they seem to believe all we need is a return to the "normalcy" of 2015. I guess we'll all know in due time.
Why would you, knowing all this, vote for Biden? It makes no sense. Sanders, the socialist, would have, as FDR said, saved capitalism. He would have gotten some things done and made the lives of ordinary people better.
I agree that if Biden managers to win, which I doubt he will, we will have four years of nothing and wealth inequality will continue to grow. People will think back to the halcyon days of Trump. We will have more like a Bolsonaro or Hitler next time.
Democrats have learned nothing from 2016. In fact, they are stupider this time because Biden is like Hillary with dementia. There was no normalcy in 2015 and Trump did not cause many of the problems we have now, but so many think that just getting rid of him will make things fine. And the media has done nothing but say that Joe is the one and that Bernie is horrible and people believed it. I wonder what they are going to think when they find out the guy MSNBC told them is a sure bet to beat Trump is senile and loses? Probably they will find a way to blame Bernie and the Russians.
sbenois said:
Joe is looking very Presidential tonight. Great speech. Calm.
Calm is not a platform or a plan.
Here is how he looked this afternoon, and CNN praised him. Delusional. And not calm.
nan said:
Why would you, knowing all this, vote for Biden? It makes no sense. Sanders, the socialist, would have, as FDR said, saved capitalism. He would have gotten some things done and made the lives of ordinary people better.
I agree that if Biden managers to win, which I doubt he will, we will have four years of nothing and wealth inequality will continue to grow. People will think back to the halcyon days of Trump. We will have more like a Bolsonaro or Hitler next time.
Democrats have learned nothing from 2016. In fact, they are stupider this time because Biden is like Hillary with dementia. There was no normalcy in 2015 and Trump did not cause many of the problems we have now, but so many think that just getting rid of him will make things fine. And the media has done nothing but say that Joe is the one and that Bernie is horrible and people believed it. I wonder what they are going to think when they find out the guy MSNBC told them is a sure bet to beat Trump is senile and loses? Probably they will find a way to blame Bernie and the Russians.
Why would I vote for Biden? Climate change.
I'm not certain he would lead on addressing this. But I know Trump WON'T.
regarding my earlier point about younger voters. MI exit poll results.
sbenois said:
You can write whatever you want. Your guy is done.
And so is the planet.
DaveSchmidt said:
I may not have been clear. You were responsible for spreading the tweet. I blame you for that (since you had asked), and for spreading the video after it.
The tweet and video demonstrate that Biden is not telling the truth about his past views.
ml1 said:
Why would I vote for Biden? Climate change.
I'm not certain he would lead on addressing this. But I know Trump WON'T.
Biden is funded by fossil fuel interests. He's not doing squat. Bernie has an incredible GND. Why would you not vote for Bernie instead?
Bernie has been dismal with the black vote. This is a reason why I couldn’t fully back Pete. These are just the facts. I was watching Bernie was getting momentum with the younger black vote - but in the end numbers speak. It felt almost like Michael Moore gave a concession speech tonight.
nan said:
ml1 said:
Why would I vote for Biden? Climate change.
I'm not certain he would lead on addressing this. But I know Trump WON'T.Biden is funded by fossil fuel interests. He's not doing squat. Bernie has an incredible GND. Why would you not vote for Bernie instead?
I don’t think ml1 ever said he’d vote for Biden over Sanders. I bet he’s talking about Biden over Trump. (His comment followed mrincredible’s comment about #DemExit, which is predicated on a Biden nomination.) Try reading it that way and see if it helps you answer your own question.
nan said:
Democrats have learned nothing from 2016. In fact, they are stupider this time because Biden is like Hillary with dementia. There was no normalcy in 2015 and Trump did not cause many of the problems we have now, but so many think that just getting rid of him will make things fine. And the media has done nothing but say that Joe is the one and that Bernie is horrible and people believed it. I wonder what they are going to think when they find out the guy MSNBC told them is a sure bet to beat Trump is senile and loses? Probably they will find a way to blame Bernie and the Russians.
The reason that Biden -
- won South Carolina
- won those states on Super Tuesday
- won big last night, and
- leads in the delegate count
is because more voters in the primary voted for him.
Whatever happened to -
nan said:
When will people learn that voter shaming does not work.
nan said:
Biden is funded by fossil fuel interests. He's not doing squat. Bernie has an incredible GND. Why would you not vote for Bernie instead?
because Bernie isn't going to be running against Trump.
and I guess nan didn't read the entire thread. I've been perhaps the only pro-Bernie person posting here.
nan said:
If you voted for Biden, these tragedies are partially on you. He will not unify anyone. He will get us closer to yellow vests and pitchforks.
Also nan: " When will people learn that voter shaming does not work."
drummerboy said:
I don't think Bernie's goal was ever to unite the Democratic Party. He has always said, since 2016 and before, that his road to victory depended on motivating a massive turnout among new, (mostly young) voters.
He has, obviously, failed at that.
He said previously that the despises the Democratic party, that it is corrupt, etc.
Obviously he's losing. He has nothing to gain by staying in. If he had a shred of grace and decency he would suspend his campaign like Mayor Pete and others have done. But I don't think he will. I think he'll have no problem building rancor in the Democratic party and dividing the party even if it helps the Republicans.
With him its been about Bernie, Bernie, Bernie, the savior. So, let us all sing the Bernie song. Another narcissist.
Maybe people are starting to recognize that Bernie's entire political career in Vermont has been based on undercutting the Democratic Party for his own purposes.
And, here we go -
Ms. Krystal Ball, who has been cited on MOL as an authority, won't vote for the Democratic nominee if it's not Bernie.
And so Cenk Uygur of all people winds up sounding like a voice of reason as a result. here we go—-krystal ball saying she will “leave it blank” in November. What an absolute hack. pic.twitter.com/0z6KAdF9OA
I heard the clip of Jim Clyburn suggesting shutting down the primary if Biden has a big delegate haul last night. I think that's stupid.
We're at a point where it's down to three candidates. There is a clear frontrunner emerging at the moment, but Biden still has to get over 50% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination outright.
There are significant differences between Biden and Sanders (and Gabbard). There are two more-or-less distinct groups of voters. Asking Sanders to step down right now would mean writing off the interest and engagement of millions of voters.
If it were Biden vs Clinton maybe you could make an argument to have whoever was trailing drop out. Let the frontrunner focus on building a war chest of campaign funds to tackle Trump in the general.
But we have a different situation this year. Biden and Sander should continue to campaign, debate and deliver their messages. I heard Joe Biden reach out to Sanders supporters in his speech last night. I think he should keep doing that. I think Sanders should keep pressing his message with Biden supporters. Keep both sides engaged. Focus on similarities as well as differences.
The senility accusations from one side and the heart attack fearmongering from the other don't help at all.
mrincredible said:
I heard the clip of Jim Clyburn suggesting shutting down the primary if Biden has a big delegate haul last night. I think that's stupid.
We're at a point where it's down to three candidates. There is a clear frontrunner emerging at the moment, but Biden still has to get over 50% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination outright.
There are significant differences between Biden and Sanders (and Gabbard). There are two more-or-less distinct groups of voters. Asking Sanders to step down right now would mean writing off the interest and engagement of millions of voters.
If it were Biden vs Clinton maybe you could make an argument to have whoever was trailing drop out. Let the frontrunner focus on building a war chest of campaign funds to tackle Trump in the general.
But we have a different situation this year. Biden and Sander should continue to campaign, debate and deliver their messages. I heard Joe Biden reach out to Sanders supporters in his speech last night. I think he should keep doing that. I think Sanders should keep pressing his message with Biden supporters. Keep both sides engaged. Focus on similarities as well as differences.
The senility accusations from one side and the heart attack fearmongering from the other don't help at all.
I do not want Bernie to drop out. I want him to debate Biden until Biden has mathematically clinched the nomination. Then Bernie can drop out.
And with regard to the comments here about Sanders' relationship to the Democratic Party, the references are about 30 years old. Here's a more nuanced summary from Politico. It's from 2016, but I don't think anything has changed substantially in the past four years regarding Sanders and the party. If Sanders is guilty of anything, it's a strange stubbornness in his refusal to call himself a Democrat. His colleagues in the Senate consider him a Democrat in every way aside from his identification as an Independent. He is a member of their caucus, and on committees he is considered a Democratic member. This describes how the Democrats reacted to his first Senate race:
The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, led by New York’s Chuck Schumer, quickly got behind Sanders when he ran, and Nevada’s Harry Reid happily welcomed him to the Senate Democratic Caucus once he won. In December of that year, a month after his election, Ted Kennedy invited Sanders and the rest of the Democrats on the Senate’s Health, Education and Labor and Pensions Committee to an intimate dinner at his Washington home. Also in attendance? Barack Obama. And Hillary Clinton.
and another very recent take on the coverage of Sanders.
Political journalists are eager to kick Bernie Sanders on his way out the door
Bernie ran and won in the 2018 Democratic primary in Vermont for senator. He had token opposition. He then declined the nomination and ran as an Independent. He won; the Democratic nominee for governor lost in that same election.
Sure he caucuses with them, and in turn he gets stature on committees. It's a symbiotic relationship, but not the same as being part of and supporting the party.
ml1 said:
And with regard to the comments here about Sanders' relationship to the Democratic Party, the references are about 30 years old. Here's a more nuanced summary from Politico. It's from 2016, but I don't think anything has changed substantially in the past four years regarding Sanders and the party. If Sanders is guilty of anything, it's a strange stubbornness in his refusal to call himself a Democrat. His colleagues in the Senate consider him a Democrat in every way aside from his identification as an Independent. He is a member of their caucus, and on committees he is considered a Democratic member.
They weren't Democrats. And neither was Bernie. And with so many Never Trumper GOPers onboard, the Bernie people, who apparently don't turn out to vote, may not turn out to vote and it might not matter.
Also, the grumpy old man could have at least offered a perfunctory "Congrats" to Joe last night. Like Warren did. It's the right thing to do.
This guy puts it quite well:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/opinion/sanders-democratic-primary.html?searchResultPosition=6
"The biggest lesson is simply this: The American left doesn’t care enough about winning.It’s an old problem, one that has long undermined left-wing movements in this country. They have often prioritized purity over victory. They wouldn’t necessarily put it these terms, but they have chosen to lose on their terms rather than win with compromise."
Shocking.