Bernie's 2020 Campaign: August 2016 - At least through April, apparently

Actually the article I posted does state the Medicare for All - COULD become universal health care.  

Yeah, from that article, it was tough to figure out the difference.

I'm still trying to follow what nan's idea of Medicare For All actually is. I don't know of any country, my home country included which is one of the few which includes government-run hospitals and government-paid doctors, which does not also allow those who can afford it to buy into private insurance. Eliminating private insurance completely isn't necessary, just change the default setting of American Health Care from "no insurance" to "covered by Medicare". The rest of the wacky system can be happily left in place for those who want their choices completely limited by private corporations.

ridski said:
Yeah, from that article, it was tough to figure out the difference.
I'm still trying to follow what nan's idea of Medicare For All actually is. I don't know of any country, my home country included which is one of the few which includes government-run hospitals and government-paid doctors, which does not also allow those who can afford it to buy into private insurance. Eliminating private insurance completely isn't necessary, just change the default setting of American Health Care from "no insurance" to "covered by Medicare". The rest of the wacky system can be happily left in place for those who want their choices completely limited by private corporations.

 And those who will not require another mortgage to cover copays and deductibles..........Oh wait they can always try the "Go Fund Me route"

Here's the rundown from the democratic socialists:

https://medicareforall.dsausa.org/organizing-guide/medicare-for-all-faq

Medicare for All is a universal national health insurance system in which a public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private. Under a universal public healthcare system, all U.S. residents would be covered for all services covered by a medical professional, including: primary care, hospital, preventive, long-term care, mental health, reproductive healthcare, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs. 

Unfortunately, link to Bernie's site on how things get paid - gives you this:

jamie said:
Here's the rundown from the democratic socialists:
https://medicareforall.dsausa.org/organizing-guide/medicare-for-all-faq
Medicare for All is a universal national health insurance system in which a public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private. Under a universal public healthcare system, all U.S. residents would be covered for all services covered by a medical professional, including: primary care, hospital, preventive, long-term care, mental health, reproductive healthcare, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs. 
Unfortunately, link to Bernie's site on how things get paid - gives you this:

 I think we can pay for it with MMT.

https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2019/03/08/medical-students-advocate-for-medicare-for-all/

So - is it safe to say that Medicare for All is single payer system?  This is from the sanders document to finance it:

As the wealthiest country in the world, we have a variety of options available to support a
Medicare for All single-payer health care system that guarantees high quality, affordable health
care as a right, not a privilege, to every man, woman, and child in this country.

Here's a basic overview of single payer vs universal healthcare:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/featured_stories/featured_stories_detail/universal_healthcare_vs_single_payer_healthcare

Based I this - I would say that Medicare for All is NOT Universal Healthcare.

Several...........and I do mean several  years ago,  I was traveling in what was then Yugoslavia.

The southern most province was largely Greek speaking............so I had no language problem.

One day in a cafe though,  I heard a young fellow speaking English.   It turned out that he has had an accident some weeks ago.  A high speed bicycle rider had run into him and he had to be hospitalized for more than 3 weeks.  He told me that when he was released his total hospital bill

came to a few dollars.........can't remember the name of the currency.   Under their form of Medicare for all the only thing that incurred a charge was a call home to his folks to tell them he had been hospitalized.

Are you saying that Medicare for All completely covers foreigners?   I'm so confused.  lol

I thought the Democratic party now requires one to be a Democrat in order to run in their primaries. But I see Bernie is still an independent per the official senate site.

jamie said:
Are you saying that Medicare for All completely covers foreigners?   I'm so confused.  lol

 Uncle Bernie will take care of your cousin Siegfried from Bavaria should he injure his ACL hoisting a few  at the Pub.

Seriously I don't know as the details and minutia have yet to be worked out..........first the election.

I carry separate travel insurance myself for times I am traveling in European lands without Medicare for all

author said:

ridski said:
Yeah, from that article, it was tough to figure out the difference.
I'm still trying to follow what nan's idea of Medicare For All actually is. I don't know of any country, my home country included which is one of the few which includes government-run hospitals and government-paid doctors, which does not also allow those who can afford it to buy into private insurance. Eliminating private insurance completely isn't necessary, just change the default setting of American Health Care from "no insurance" to "covered by Medicare". The rest of the wacky system can be happily left in place for those who want their choices completely limited by private corporations.

 And those who will not require another mortgage to cover copays and deductibles..........Oh wait they can always try the "Go Fund Me route"

 You didn't read a word I ******* wrote, did you?

ridski said:

author said:

ridski said:
Yeah, from that article, it was tough to figure out the difference.
I'm still trying to follow what nan's idea of Medicare For All actually is. I don't know of any country, my home country included which is one of the few which includes government-run hospitals and government-paid doctors, which does not also allow those who can afford it to buy into private insurance. Eliminating private insurance completely isn't necessary, just change the default setting of American Health Care from "no insurance" to "covered by Medicare". The rest of the wacky system can be happily left in place for those who want their choices completely limited by private corporations.

 And those who will not require another mortgage to cover copays and deductibles..........Oh wait they can always try the "Go Fund Me route"

 You didn't read a word I ******* wrote, did you?

 I read "He shoots.........He scores"   Should I have been impressed?

https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10157724844537908/UzpfSTEyNzI0NDgzNDU6MTAyMTg3MTE5NjQ0OTE1NTg/?__tn__=%2Cd-]-h-R&eid=ARCBsIhjuvZoA6YYJ0inhjVDhZ6tjJ-MLPC1yIahLcYDn9WJY1FsizbO_amSZbE3CvEl9tkePvlZlX_Q

author said:
 I read "He shoots.........He scores"   Should I have been impressed?

 There's a damn good reason why I skip over your posts.

author said:

Seriously I don't know as the details and minutia have yet to be worked out..........first the election.
I carry separate travel insurance myself for times I am traveling in European lands without Medicare for all

 So basically - when you said to me "Please furnish some facts ad not trite sports cliches"  You in fact have zero facts?  

jamie said:

author said:

Seriously I don't know as the details and minutia have yet to be worked out..........first the election.
I carry separate travel insurance myself for times I am traveling in European lands without Medicare for all

 So basically - when you said to me "Please furnish some facts ad not trite sports cliches"  You in fact have zero facts?  

 Jamie ..........see my posting having to do  with comparing donut consumption with Medicare for All.  It may seem a little silly,because it is..............but it does a pretty good job of explaining 

the concept.   Now I will never look at another donut again.

ridski said:

author said:
 I read "He shoots.........He scores"   Should I have been impressed?

 There's a damn good reason why I skip over your posts.

 Well I could quote Kahlil Gibran but I really feel no need to impress you.

There is some confusion about Medicare for All now because the bill for it, sponsored by Sanders and Jaypal, is still working it's way through congress.  This is an improved version from what Sanders was campaigning on before and includes expanded coverage for people with disabilities and also includes vision, hearing and dental coverage.  It is more extensive than the plan in other countries, perhaps because we are the richest country in the world and should have the best.  

So far there are 106 Democratic co-signers of the bill.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/03/06/there-are-106-democratic-co-sponsors-medicare-all-whats-other-130

ok, so you're confused too?  It would be nice if those on here supporting it could answer some basic questions. 

Will the government be setting the prices for all medical procedures?  

Is there only the one study that calculated the costs?

Are DACA recipients covered?

Would you say it's closer to "single payer" or "universal health care"?

And will Medicare For All eliminate private insurance?

ridski said:
And will Medicare For All eliminate private insurance?

 If you want it to fail, yes.

jamie said:
ok, so you're confused too?  It would be nice if those on here supporting it could answer some basic questions. 
Will the government be setting the prices for all medical procedures?  
Is there only the one study that calculated the costs?
Are DACA recipients covered?
Would you say it's closer to "single payer" or "universal health care"?

ridski said:
And will Medicare For All eliminate private insurance?

tjohn said:

ridski said:
And will Medicare For All eliminate private insurance?

 If you want it to fail, yes.

 No, I'm not confused, although this is a complex topic and I am still learning more about it.  Basically, Bernie Sanders, who I consider the gold standard for Medicare for All endorsement is pushing for the latest version, which was introduced on February 27th, 2019 by Jayapal Pramilla  (https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1384).  From what I've read, it includes long-term care, vision, dental and hearing and eliminates health insurance companies.  

This is an amazing plan, however, it still has to pass and it is likely there would be some compromises along the way.  Because of that, it's important to start with the strongest bill possible so that if it gets watered down later, it will still have strength.  The validity of this approach is explained well in this video about Elizabeth Warren that I posted on the 2020 Candidate thread. 

Eliminates health insurance companies meaning private insurance meaning failure.  Next idea...

tjohn said:
Eliminates health insurance companies meaning private insurance meaning failure.  Next idea...

 No, saving money. But let's not worry about it until it seems like it's going to happen.  The insurance companies are going to fight like crazy.  They are already spending lots of money on propaganda. 

as a first step - they should just keep the ACA and offer medicare to everyone as a single payer option.

nan - for someone who is skeptical of everything - you've sure signed on to Medicare for all 100% with very little question.  Wonder what you're thoughts would be if Hillary came up with this plan.   

nan said:
 No, saving money. But let's not worry about it until it seems like it's going to happen.  The insurance companies are going to fight like crazy.  They are already spending lots of money on propaganda. 

I'll fight it like crazy too.  I like my private insurance.  I like being able to go to a doctor of my choice when I feel like it without approval.  I'm not against coverage for all, but I don't want to give up the coverage I have.  And don't insult us by claiming it will be just as easy with single payer without private insurance.

jamie said:
as a first step - they should just keep the ACA and offer medicare to everyone as a single payer option.
nan - for someone who is skeptical of everything - you've sure signed on to Medicare for all 100% with very little question.  Wonder what you're thoughts would be if Hillary came up with this plan.   

 At least two studies have shown it will save money and every other country has some for already.  Why are you so eager to roll over and accept any crap program they want to give us?  I would have been thrilled if Hillary came up with this plan, but she said it would never, every happen.

Can you share that full clip?  Here's what Hillary has said more recently:

JUDY WOODRUFF:

In the campaign, you, on a number of occasions, argued with Bernie Sanders, because he argued there should be more of a government-run health care system, rather than expanding Obamacare.

Now he has this new plan out to expand Medicare, cover more people in the direction of single-payer. And dozens of Democrats are behind it. Are they making a mistake?

Hillary:

No. It's an aspirational goal.

I believe in universal health care coverage that is affordable and high-quality. There are a number of ways to get there. I think some are more likely than others.

During the primary campaign, I did defend the Affordable Care Act, because, for the first time in our history, we had 90 percent of Americans covered. And as I said over and over again, it's a lot easier to get from 90 to 100 percent than ripping it up and starting all over again.

But as someone who's worked on health care to try to get to universal coverage for 25 years, it matters how much it costs. It matters what people feel about giving up what they already have. And half of America gets health care from their employers. It matters what kind of standards are going to be expected in whatever benefits there are.

You know, the devil is always in the details when it comes to universal health care coverage. So, I think having a debate about the best way we get there and having people really lay their cards on the table, so that it can be examined, is important.

jamie said:
Can you share that full clip?  Here's what Hillary has said more recently:
JUDY WOODRUFF:
In the campaign, you, on a number of occasions, argued with Bernie Sanders, because he argued there should be more of a government-run health care system, rather than expanding Obamacare.
Now he has this new plan out to expand Medicare, cover more people in the direction of single-payer. And dozens of Democrats are behind it. Are they making a mistake?
Hillary:

No. It's an aspirational goal.
I believe in universal health care coverage that is affordable and high-quality. There are a number of ways to get there. I think some are more likely than others.
During the primary campaign, I did defend the Affordable Care Act, because, for the first time in our history, we had 90 percent of Americans covered. And as I said over and over again, it's a lot easier to get from 90 to 100 percent than ripping it up and starting all over again.
But as someone who's worked on health care to try to get to universal coverage for 25 years, it matters how much it costs. It matters what people feel about giving up what they already have. And half of America gets health care from their employers. It matters what kind of standards are going to be expected in whatever benefits there are.
You know, the devil is always in the details when it comes to universal health care coverage. So, I think having a debate about the best way we get there and having people really lay their cards on the table, so that it can be examined, is important.

 Basically that's the long version of the video.  Interesting how Amy Klobuchar, HIllary 2.0, has adopted her "inspirational goal" verbiage.  This is typical, centrist, incrementalism, neoliberal talking points.  We have had enough of this and we ended up with Trump.   If you don't demand bold change, you get a few crumbs or nothing.