Bernie's 2020 Campaign: August 2016 - At least through April, apparently

Jaytee said:
Seems to me people are overestimating Bernie's support. 

Including everyone who keeps assuming he prevented nan from voting for the Democratic nominee in 2016.

jamie said:
No need to divide the party - big plus for Trump.

Were you expecting a contested primary that didn’t divide the party?

jamie said:
 If this is the type of rhetoric the "Bernie fans" are using this early out - then I'm a huge no for Bernie.  No need to divide the party - big plus for Trump.  
Who are the other out of the box candidates you're excited over - besides Gabbard?

 You have been a huge no for Bernie since 2015, so there is no news here.  Are you going to call out Julian Castro, who gave Bernie a dig about reparations, and said he always thought reparations were a great thing, although there is no evidence of him ever mentioning reparations and his idea on them is that we should maybe form a committee and take a look. Now it's being reported that Castro supports reparations, which he did not say he did.  Pretty divisive, dontyathink?

The candidates I like are Sanders and Gabbard.  The candidates I sorta kinda like if I HAD to pick someone else are Warren and Buttigieg.    The candidates I don't have time for and wonder why they are running are Hickenlooper, Inslee, and John Delaney.   The candidate that I might like but I'm thinking not but I have not checked out yet is Yang.  The candidate I should like but don't is Marianne Wiliamson.  The candidates I think of as Hillary 2.0: Harris, Booker, Gillibrand, Klobuchar (Beto, Biden).  I think that's all as of this time.  

DaveSchmidt said:
Were you expecting a contested primary that didn’t divide the party?

 I was hoping for a slightly less divisive primary.  Pretty impossible with an independent running as a democrat.  At this point, I just hope all candidates would announce already.  I would like to know what Beto and Biden's plans are.

How is Beto - a Hillary 2.0 candidate?  Seems like you're most worried about him taking out Bernie.

Jaytee said:
Seems to me people are overestimating Bernie's support. He says he's fighting the Democratic party establishment, but if he doesn't get the nomination he will support the established nominee. That will turn a lot of his supporters away from voting. So it's back to square one again. Either this guy forms his own party, or just retire already. Free college, free health care and all those promises could very well be political suicide. We can not afford a mass suicide at this point in history. Some people just don't get it. It's frustrating.

 I don't get the logic.  How does Bernie not getting the nomination and supporting the nominee cause a lot of his supporters to turn away from voting?   His ideas like Medicare for All are hugely popular and in case you have not noticed, he is now the front runner for those that are running.  So, if you are thinking that there is no way he will win, you are wrong.  

But, in case he does not get the nomination, let's get this straight: Bernie has nothing to do with how his supporters vote in 2020 if he does not get the nomination.  It's how the DNC acts that will determine how many of them vote for the nominee. If the DNC cheats the way it did in 2016, I expect fewer Bernie supporters will pull the lever than did in 2016. There is an expectation that they will not pull that crap again.  So, if you want to lash out at someone, it should be the DNC, because they are supposed to run a free and fair election and not favor one candidate or sabotage others. More Bernie supporters voted for Clinton than Clinton supporters voted for Obama, so the theory that Bernie supporters did not vote for Hillary is untrue.  However, I would not assume that for 2020 if the DNC tries to rig the election again.  So if you want to get mad at someone, get mad at the DNC.  

jamie said:
How is Beto - a Hillary 2.0 candidate?  Seems like you're most worried about him taking out Bernie.

Don't know where you got that idea.  I don't think of Beto as being in Bernie's league in any way.  He takes oil and gas money and votes with Republicans.  Very Hillaryesque.  

Great short piece which sums up the Bernie/Beto battle that will soon start IMO:

https://whyy.org/articles/bernie-versus-beto-democratic-cannibalization-begins/

Beto is definitely a threat to the Bernie base.

jamie said:
Great short piece which sums up the Bernie/Beto battle that will soon start IMO:
https://whyy.org/articles/bernie-versus-beto-democratic-cannibalization-begins/

Beto is definitely a threat to the Bernie base.

 This is the funniest thing I have skimmed lately.   I think someone interpreted David Sirota's inquiries way beyond what they were meant to be and someone else thought Neera Tanden had something valid to say.  It's just crazy and off-base, but let's file it under:  good let them think that, ha!    Why would anyone who likes Sanders like Beto?   Beto is not a Progressive.  He's more like Harris, Booker, Klobuchar, et al.  

nan said:

jamie said:
How is Beto - a Hillary 2.0 candidate?  Seems like you're most worried about him taking out Bernie.

Don't know where you got that idea.  I don't think of Beto as being in Bernie's league in any way.  He takes oil and gas money and votes with Republicans.  Very Hillaryesque.  

nan said:

jamie said:
Great short piece which sums up the Bernie/Beto battle that will soon start IMO:
https://whyy.org/articles/bernie-versus-beto-democratic-cannibalization-begins/

Beto is definitely a threat to the Bernie base.

 This is the funniest thing I have skimmed lately.   I think someone interpreted David Sirota's inquiries way beyond what they were meant to be and someone else thought Neera Tanden had something valid to say.  It's just crazy and off-base, but let's file it under:  good let them think that, ha!    Why would anyone who likes Sanders like Beto?   Beto is not a Progressive.  He's more like Harris, Booker, Klobuchar, et al.  

Illustrates my point in an earlier comment.  "Beto takes oil and gas money".  As the article points out, "Those donations accounted for roughly one-half of one percent of all the money he raised – none of which came from corporate political action committees."  They're contributions from "people in the oil and gas industries", which means that's where they're employed.  The people who interpret Sirota as intending to impugn Beto with this information are those who write sentences like, "He takes oil and gas money".

Overall, a very on-point article about the concern raised, when Bernie runs against the Democratic Party and the "establishment", instead of running against the other candidates.

nohero said:
Illustrates my point in an earlier comment.  "Beto takes oil and gas money".  As the article points out, "Those donations accounted for roughly one-half of one percent of all the money he raised – none of which came from corporate political action committees."  They're contributions from "people in the oil and gas industries", which means that's where they're employed.  The people who interpret Sirota as intending to impugn Beto with this information are those who write sentences like, "He takes oil and gas money".
Overall, a very on-point article about the concern raised, when Bernie runs against the Democratic Party and the "establishment", instead of running against the other candidates.

 We had a big discussion and it was demonstrated that Beto's oil and gas money had an effect on his voting record.  He is no Progressive.  He does not appear to support Medicare for All or A Green New Deal.  He votes in the favor of the oil and gas companies and also votes to support Republican measures. He's a centrist Democrat and more of a threat to that group than he is to Bernie. 

Beto O’Rourke frequently voted for Republican legislation, analysis reveals

Review of his six-year record in Congress shows Democrat frequently opposed own party, and supported bills that boosted the fossil fuel industry and Trump’s immigration policy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main

.

Bernie on mass incarceration compared to Biden and Harris. 

nan said:

.

 Finally, something that makes sense.

https://villagegreennj.com/towns/maplewood/maplewood-to-host-medicare-for-all-forum-on-march-16/

author said:
https://villagegreennj.com/towns/maplewood/maplewood-to-host-medicare-for-all-forum-on-march-16/

 Since just about every declared Dem nominee has embraced the idea.............some information.

 Even Republicans are invited

The conservative National Review weighs in on Bernie:

Don’t Laugh, Bernie Can Win

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/dont-laugh-bernie-can-win/?fbclid=IwAR12T3McYELnkA6arSvEBeok8eOw7lnKvkeOjh6D_60w1LGRQHzeRpTtKTc

My response: Where have you been the last four years? Polished candidates are out. Candid candidates are in. Voters can and will forgive their politicians almost any verbal lapses, so long as they believe the candidate doesn’t hate them. Sanders has the manners not to talk about huge swathes of the American public with disdain or contempt. We know he won’t repeat Mitt Romney’s “takers” moment. But, crucially, while Sanders will denounce racism and divisiveness, he won’t imply that Trump’s supporters are economically useless “deplorables.” Bernie is not “intersectional” — at least, not in the alienating way. His declared enemies are the millionaires and billionaires who buy up public policy. He will not be tempted, as some other candidates may be, to mimic or adopt the young-lefty-media views on intersectionality that remain avant-garde and alienating to key swing constituencies.

He’s not too far left for his party. The Democratic party is shifting left, according to Gallup polling, and the number of voters in it who call themselves liberal is rising over and above those who call themselves moderates and conservatives. Also, perhaps paradoxically, the flood of upper-middle-class educated voters into the Democratic party may be an advantage for Sanders, for these voters are the most attuned to their status inequality with the “billionaires” that are the target of Sanders’s campaign.

Sanders’s version of left-wing politics will ring out as almost nostalgic and comforting to voters lower on the socioeconomic scale. In fact, he may have more crossover appeal. The possibility of “Obama-Trump-Sanders” voters flipping Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania is a real one. If the age of Clinton has officially ended in the Democratic party, Sanders offers the party a pre-Clintonite identity. His ambitions are to expand on the New Deal and the Fair Deal, to overcome the resistance that national health care met in the famous do-nothing Congress.

nan said:
The conservative National Review weighs in on Bernie:
Don’t Laugh, Bernie Can Win
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/dont-laugh-bernie-can-win/?fbclid=IwAR12T3McYELnkA6arSvEBeok8eOw7lnKvkeOjh6D_60w1LGRQHzeRpTtKTc

That's a variation of "concern trolling".  The piece hits all the buttons to create division in the Democratic Party.  If Bernie is the nominee, that's probably an answer to their prayers.

nohero said:

nan said:
The conservative National Review weighs in on Bernie:
Don’t Laugh, Bernie Can Win
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/dont-laugh-bernie-can-win/?fbclid=IwAR12T3McYELnkA6arSvEBeok8eOw7lnKvkeOjh6D_60w1LGRQHzeRpTtKTc

That's a variation of "concern trolling".  The piece hits all the buttons to create division in the Democratic Party.  If Bernie is the nominee, that's probably an answer to their prayers.

 I don't get that from the article, but if the Democrats think Beto is a challenge to Bernie, perhaps the Republicans are equally out to lunch.  Many may be, but I think the writer of this piece is has something of an objective eye that sees the winds of change blowing in Bernie's direction, and he provides many examples why Trump should be worried if Sanders gets the nomination.  For example:

Finally, and this is an important point: One of Sanders’s greatest advantages is his stubbornness. Sometime in the 1990s, Americans got used to the idea that politics is entirely phony. It’s all “spin.” All candidates “pivot.” Donald Trump has a very unfaithful relationship with the truth. At the same time, Trump’s character is transparent. People knew what kind of man Trump really was when they voted for him. Sanders’s lifelong adherence to social-democratic politics, his willingness to sit on the margins because of his fidelity to that vision, is his greatest asset. The whole world has grown soft and inconstant. Sanders is a rebuke to that. Republicans and conservatives need to take him very serious

nan said:

...Sanders’s lifelong adherence to social-democratic politics, his willingness to sit on the margins because of his fidelity to that vision, is his greatest asset. ...

Just to comment on this one excerpt.  They turn a flaw into a "feature".  It's not a virtue to make the "perfect" the enemy of the "good", with respect to legislation.  Sanders talks big ideas, but how to get there isn't part of his toolkit.

nohero said:
Just to comment on this one excerpt.  They turn a flaw into a "feature".  It's not a virtue to make the "perfect" the enemy of the "good", with respect to legislation.  Sanders talks big ideas, but how to get there isn't part of his toolkit.

 Really?  He just got a bill passed to end US involvement in Yemen.  

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/12/676152310/senate-poised-to-vote-to-end-u-s-military-support-for-war-in-yemen

nohero said:
Just to comment on this one excerpt.  They turn a flaw into a "feature".  It's not a virtue to make the "perfect" the enemy of the "good", with respect to legislation.  Sanders talks big ideas, but how to get there isn't part of his toolkit.

 He shoots, he scores!  

sbenois said:

nohero said:
Just to comment on this one excerpt.  They turn a flaw into a "feature".  It's not a virtue to make the "perfect" the enemy of the "good", with respect to legislation.  Sanders talks big ideas, but how to get there isn't part of his toolkit.

 He shoots, he scores!  

 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2061474170639683&set=a.793691850751261&type=3&theater

HIS TOOLKIT

https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/photos/a.324119347643076/2178344578887201/?type=3&theater

What an embarrassment

author said:
https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/photos/a.324119347643076/2178344578887201/?type=3&theater
What an embarrassment

 Here's the graphic.  Can we at least agree that Universal Health Care is NOT Medicare for All?

jamie said:

author said:
https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/photos/a.324119347643076/2178344578887201/?type=3&theater
What an embarrassment

 Here's the graphic.  Can we at least agree that Universal Health Care is NOT Medicare for All?

 Please furnish some facts ad not trite sports cliches

nan said:
Bernie on mass incarceration compared to Biden and Harris. 

 Watched for five minutes until this guy played a clip of Biden and then completely misrepresented what Biden said.

STANV said:

nan said:
Bernie on mass incarceration compared to Biden and Harris. 

 Watched for five minutes until this guy played a clip of Biden and then completely misrepresented what Biden said.

This is another thing I don't like about the Bernie cult. Their constant lies and misrepresentations.

If you're pure as driven snow and in the right, then why the need to lie?

nohero said:
Just to comment on this one excerpt.  They turn a flaw into a "feature".  It's not a virtue to make the "perfect" the enemy of the "good", with respect to legislation.  Sanders talks big ideas, but how to get there isn't part of his toolkit.

 The ideological Conservatives like the National review folks would be tickled pink to see Bernie defeat Trump. They believe Bernie would then fail as President proving that his brand of socialism doesn't work and having rid themselves of Trump they could take back the Republican Party and elect a "true conservative" in 2024. 

author said:

jamie said:

author said:
https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/photos/a.324119347643076/2178344578887201/?type=3&theater
What an embarrassment

 Here's the graphic.  Can we at least agree that Universal Health Care is NOT Medicare for All?

 Please furnish some facts ad not trite sports cliches

Universal Health Care provides health care to everyone.

Medicare for All allows everyone to buy into the system - it's closer to single payer, but it's not Universal Health Care - even though it sounds that way to some.

There's still a lot of debate over the details, but if Medicare for all WAS universal Health Care - why not call it that?

https://www.verywellhealth.com/is-medicare-a-single-payer-tax-system-4068651