Bernie's 2020 Campaign: August 2016 - At least through April, apparently

nohero said:
There's more of the same in that article.
Couple of thoughts:
1.  Yes, I'm going to mention that Clinton wound up with more votes and more delegates, and the "superdelegates" didn't matter.  But it's a good line for Bernie, his equivalent of "Build the Wall".
2.  I'm surprised he didn't try to lead the crowd in a "Lock Her Up" chant.
3.  Most important: Why the heck is he starting out by running against the Democratic Party?  He is following the Trump playbook, stirring up resentment and "us vs. them", but he's doing it in the primary.  That will just hurt the ultimate nominee.  He hasn't changed since he started this campaign in August 2016.

 Amazing that you could compare a guy who takes no corporate donations and presents a bold, exciting platform for the people and compare him to Trump. How dare he campaign by pointing out the difference between himself and the old centrist Democrats who LOST In 2016.  

Anyway, for those that actually paid attention to the substance of Bernie's Iowa speech, he spoke about a topic not often heard --

In Iowa, Sanders Addresses 'Rural Community Issues We Almost Never Hear About': Factory Farms and Big Ag

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/03/08/iowa-sanders-addresses-rural-community-issues-we-almost-never-hear-about-factory

sbenois said:
3.  He's not a Democrat.  He's a bum.

 Then in that case I won't be feeling the bum....

nan said:
 Amazing that you could compare a guy who takes no corporate donations and presents a bold, exciting platform for the people and compare him to Trump. How dare he campaign by pointing out the difference between himself and the old centrist Democrats who LOST In 2016.  
Anyway, for those that actually paid attention to the substance of Bernie's Iowa speech, he spoke about a topic not often heard --
In Iowa, Sanders Addresses 'Rural Community Issues We Almost Never Hear About': Factory Farms and Big Ag
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/03/08/iowa-sanders-addresses-rural-community-issues-we-almost-never-hear-about-factory

Here is Bernie's rally in Des Moines. He starts out by saying how much he likes the other Dem candidates and considers them personal friends and will not be running a negative campaign.  So much for nohero comparing him to Trump.  

I compared his tactics to Trump.  Ms. Nan's comments ignored that part.

I really don't care what he said in Des Moines.  I'm in no position to say that he's sincere in liking the other Dem candidates.  I know he won't be running a negative campaign, since he has other people to do his dirty work for him.  See, e.g. David Sirota's misleading claim about campaign contributions to Beto O'Rourke.  He took data about contributions from employees in the oil and gas industry, and claimed they were from the oil and gas industry.

And as the article clearly states, it wasn't in Des Moines, it was in Council Bluffs where he whipped out that "establishment Democrats" line.  And also as the article clearly states, it wasn't in Des Moines, it was in Iowa City where he whined about "superdelegates" (even though they didn't make any difference in the final result), and got the crowd to boo Hillary Clinton.

nan said:
 It was basically a business trip while he was mayor of Burlington, VT.
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/aug/12/george-will/george-will-reminds-readers-about-bernie-sanders-u

So he took a "business" trip and managed to turn it into a honeymoon. Sounds dodgy to me.

The rewards of serving the people.

ps - is that where he got the idea that bread lines are good? I'll be eagerly waiting the Republican's bread line commercials if he wins the nomination.

nan said:
 Anyway, for those that actually paid attention to the substance of Bernie's Iowa speech, he spoke about a topic not often heard --
In Iowa, Sanders Addresses 'Rural Community Issues We Almost Never Hear About': Factory Farms and Big Ag
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/03/08/iowa-sanders-addresses-rural-community-issues-we-almost-never-hear-about-factory

Bernie says, "We need policies."  

Of course he talks about farming in Iowa.

In 2016, Hillary and the Dems set forth actual policies.  They were in stark contrast to the agribusiness-friendly positions of Trump and the GOP.  But her emails …

[Edited to add] I don't want to hear about 2016, either.  But sometimes, if I'm told that Bernie is bringing up topics "not often heard", it's necessary to point out that if one ACTUALLY cared about the topic, the clear choice was Hillary, who actually DID address the topic.  This is a great example of that.

" The clear choice was Hillary"?   And the results were?

  Such an obsession and outstanding example of revisionist history.

  No more oft repeated facts just a simple prediction............and I happen to be very good at that

  The 2020 election will mark a return to Democracy and fulfilling of the potential of this great nation under the leadership of the man from the North country.

author said:
" The clear choice was Hillary"?   And the results were?

 Yes, in the 2016 election, if one was REALLY concerned about factory farming and "Big Agriculture", the clear choice was Hillary over Trump.  The results were that she was attacked from her left flank and lost.

Clear choice.  Unfortunately some people are blind.  And awfully stupid.

nohero said:
I compared his tactics to Trump.  Ms. Nan's comments ignored that part.
I really don't care what he said in Des Moines.  I'm in no position to say that he's sincere in liking the other Dem candidates.  I know he won't be running a negative campaign, since he has other people to do his dirty work for him.  See, e.g. David Sirota's misleading claim about campaign contributions to Beto O'Rourke.  He took data about contributions from employees in the oil and gas industry, and claimed they were from the oil and gas industry.
And as the article clearly states, it wasn't in Des Moines, it was in Council Bluffs where he whipped out that "establishment Democrats" line.  And also as the article clearly states, it wasn't in Des Moines, it was in Iowa City where he whined about "superdelegates" (even though they didn't make any difference in the final result), and got the crowd to boo Hillary Clinton.

 Throughout this thread I have documented how Sanders has been attacked by establishment Democrats, especially former Clinton operatives.  Previously, wikileaks and Donna Brazille and others have proven how he was screwed over in 2016.  None of this bothered you in the lease--in fact you deny some of it even happened.  

Now, you are still complaining that the underdog is not subservient and beholden enough to his abusers.  You do realize that this is the DEMOCRATIC primary and it's DEMOCRATS running against each other, right?   They need to demonstrate how they are different from and better than the other DEMOCRATS.  Bernie's strengths and appeal are that he is a non-establishment candidate and has a long, consistent career of fighting for policies that help working people over corporate and big donors.  He did well in Iowa last time and he wants to build on that success.  The DNC should have removed superdelegates and I don't blame him for calling them out.  They are part of the establishment he is trying to reject.  

stop whining 

nohero said:
Bernie says, "We need policies."  
Of course he talks about farming in Iowa.
In 2016, Hillary and the Dems set forth actual policies.  They were in stark contrast to the agribusiness-friendly positions of Trump and the GOP.  But her emails …
[Edited to add] I don't want to hear about 2016, either.  But sometimes, if I'm told that Bernie is bringing up topics "not often heard", it's necessary to point out that if one ACTUALLY cared about the topic, the clear choice was Hillary, who actually DID address the topic.  This is a great example of that.

 I have not yet compared Bernie's proposals for farming in Iowa to the DNC/Clinton ideas, but Bernie is out there actively courting the rural vote.  If Hillary had good ideas for farming, there is s good chance no one there ever heard them:

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-rural-voters-trump-231266

Revenge of the rural voter

Rural voters turned out in a big way this presidential cycle — and they voted overwhelmingly for Donald Trump.

By all accounts, the Clinton campaign didn’t think it really needed rural voters, a shrinking population that’s reliably Republican. The campaign never named a rural council, as Obama did in 2012 and 2008. It also didn’t build a robust rural-dedicated campaign infrastructure. In 2008, Obama had a small staff at campaign headquarters dedicated to rural messaging and organizing efforts and had state-level rural coordinators in several battleground states throughout the Midwest and Rust Belt.

nan said:
 You do realize that this is the DEMOCRATIC primary and it's DEMOCRATS running against each other, right?   They need to demonstrate how they are different from and better than the other DEMOCRATS.  

Then run against the actual other candidates.  Demonstrate how he's "different from and better than" actual named candidates with whom he can be compared.  Don't whine about some "establishment Democrat" conspiracy or cabal or whatever.  That sounds Fox News-like, more appropriate for Hannity or Tucker.

nohero said:
Then run against the actual other candidates.  Demonstrate how he's "different from and better than" actual named candidates with whom he can be compared.  Don't whine about some "establishment Democrat" conspiracy or cabal or whatever.  That sounds Fox News-like, more appropriate for Hannity or Tucker.

 He will run against actual other candidates in the debates, but now he is running against the establishment.  This is not a conspiracy--the corruption of politicians bought by special interests is well documented.  I should not have to explain to you why young people and others are turning out in droves for this old, uncharismatic geezer:   He is starting a political revolution for the benefit of working people over corporate and big donor interests.  Where have you been to not know this?

You can try to make the case that all the candidates are running for president for the innocent and aspirational desire to serve the American people, but there is little evidence to support that premise. People are sick of establishment politicians who argue for incremental (wait for ever, it's not your time yet) policies and announce that "Medicare-for-All will never come to pass."   They see how wealth inequality has gone way up and live in the richest country in the world surrounded by poverty and inequity over healthcare and employment.  They see all the money going to a military budget 10 times that of the next ten countries combined.  No wonder even the dweebs in the CNN focus group were calling for bold, new progressive ideas like M4A and GND and saying people like Joe Biden were from a time past. 

nan said:

nohero said:
Then run against the actual other candidates.  Demonstrate how he's "different from and better than" actual named candidates with whom he can be compared.  Don't whine about some "establishment Democrat" conspiracy or cabal or whatever.  That sounds Fox News-like, more appropriate for Hannity or Tucker.

 He will run against actual other candidates in the debates, but now he is running against the establishment.  

He doesn't have to wait to run against the other candidates.  Saying he's going to run "against the establishment" instead, is my point. 

nohero said:
He doesn't have to wait to run against the other candidates.  Saying he's going to run "against the establishment" instead, is my point. 

 But he is running against the establishment.  That's reality.  

Bernie will, once again, be a significant reason Trump gets elected.

Ok............First of all I promise never to call anyone stupid who disagrees with me.  I have too much respect for MOL'ers and it goes to a lesson in life I was taught by a friend at college  He was a much

better debater than I and had gone through the fires that I could only imagine.......till then

Medicare foralll........I have actually heard people say that if Bernie is elected they will go to Canada or Europe.  But wait a minute,  they already have it.........and no one is dropping in the streets and no sovereign nation has gone bankrupt

Back to the Atlantic to the Pacific.  How often do you see an add for Go Fund Me........insurance is inadequate or does not exist, meaning some good, hardworking family cannot pay hospital bills and is on danger of losing their home.

I wish I could say that this is not the American Way.................Medicare for All is the answer.

Take the profits from the pharmacuticle companies and the insurance concerns.

Time we joined the rest of the civilized world.  Feel the Bern

how about you, nan? Have you learned anything? Will you vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is once Bernie is done and gone? Or will you vote for Trump again out of sheer bitterness?

If Bernie is the nominee I will stay home on Election Day.

conandrob240 said:
how about you, nan? Have you learned anything? Will you vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is once Bernie is done and gone? Or will you vote for Trump again out of sheer bitterness?

 I voted for Hillary in 2016.  I don't know if I can vote for Hillary 2.0 if it comes to that because the DNC had plenty of time to change gears and they chose to double down on a losing strategy.  However, we still have a few out of the box candidates and I'm excited about them.  I see the establishment trying to screw them over and so far they have managed to to overcome the adversity and shine.  So, I guess the main thing for me will be how fair I perceive the primary.  If the country really does want a centrist, as you seem to think, and there are no major derailments of Progressives during the campaign and voting, then I will gladly vote for the Democrat, while scratching my head on how that happened cause I don't see that coming.  If I see people wanting a Progressive and the DNC pulling rank and doing underhanded things to prevent that, I'll have to decide what I want to do.  I have spoken to several others in the same position and most of them have said they are done reinforcing DNC bad behavior and don't think they can pull the lever for the centrist Dem if they feel they were screwed by the DNC.  I felt that way up until right before the election in 2016 and then I did vote for Hillary (and regretted it later), so we will see.  

you cannot do that (although in NJ it won’t matter). Then you’re as bad as some of the other lunatics on this thread. If the democratic nominee is a rock, literally a rock, I will vote for the rock. I highly doubt we’ll wind up with Bernie but if we do, he’ll get my vote. My concern is less around Bernie getting the nomination (which I doubt) but more around him eroding the popularity of the eventual candidate. 

conandrob240 said:
Bernie will, once again, be a significant reason Trump gets elected.

 You keep saying this and I don't understand why you think this.  It just seem so obvious to me that Trump would not have a chance with Bernie (or Tulsi).  They are anti-establishment like him but so much more genuine and have platforms based on  the real problems of people, even Republicans.  He would crumble before them.  Have you actually listened to a few of Bernie's rallies and read about his platform, or do your views come from mainstream media or friends? 

Raise your hand if you think Nan is hitting the magic mushrooms with her notion that Tulsi Gabbard can beat Trump.  

sbenois said:
Raise your hand if you think Nan is hitting the magic mushrooms with her notion that Tulsi Gabbard can beat Trump.  

 I don't think Tulsi Gabbard is going to win the primary, but if she did, I have no doubt she could hammer Trump.  Even Republicans like her, by the way.   I think she will make a huge impression on people, as Bernie did during and after 2016.  He started out being mostly unknown as Gabbard is this round with people liking her more as they get to know her (unlike Hillary whom people liked less as they got to know her).  I think she has a big future, and she could surprise us in the primary.

"No doubt".  

Laughable.    

nan said:
 I voted for Hillary in 2016.  I don't know if I can vote for Hillary 2.0 if it comes to that because the DNC had plenty of time to change gears and they chose to double down on a losing strategy.  However, we still have a few out of the box candidates and I'm excited about them.  I see the establishment trying to screw them over and so far they have managed to to overcome the adversity and shine.  So, I guess the main thing for me will be how fair I perceive the primary.  If the country really does want a centrist, as you seem to think, and there are no major derailments of Progressives during the campaign and voting, then I will gladly vote for the Democrat, while scratching my head on how that happened cause I don't see that coming.  If I see people wanting a Progressive and the DNC pulling rank and doing underhanded things to prevent that, I'll have to decide what I want to do.  I have spoken to several others in the same position and most of them have said they are done reinforcing DNC bad behavior and don't think they can pull the lever for the centrist Dem if they feel they were screwed by the DNC.  I felt that way up until right before the election in 2016 and then I did vote for Hillary (and regretted it later), so we will see.  

 If this is the type of rhetoric the "Bernie fans" are using this early out - then I'm a huge no for Bernie.  No need to divide the party - big plus for Trump.  

Who are the other out of the box candidates you're excited over - besides Gabbard?

No one.  It's Tulsi or Bernie or stay home.

Seems to me people are overestimating Bernie's support. He says he's fighting the Democratic party establishment, but if he doesn't get the nomination he will support the established nominee. That will turn a lot of his supporters away from voting. So it's back to square one again. Either this guy forms his own party, or just retire already. Free college, free health care and all those promises could very well be political suicide. We can not afford a mass suicide at this point in history. Some people just don't get it. It's frustrating.