Banning leaf blowers permanently

What about senior citizens or those with either temporary or permanent disabilities? If we expect our communities to acknowledge senior issues, conversations like this one need to consider that elderly home owners may not be able to do their own yard work, as much as they would like to. Also, older taxpayers may be on a fixed income and not have the resources to hire specialized "non leaf blowing" landscapers.

I think a couple of things are being missed in this discussion. Is this ban aimed at all leaf blowers, or landscapers, or homeowners, or just gas leafblowers? The gas ones that landscapers use all day are one thing. The electric ones that homeowners use on weekends are not nearly as loud.

Homeowners use gas blowers too. Homeowners who take two hours to blow their properties are far more a nuisance than a landscaping crew that comes through in 5-10 minutes and is gone. A ban would be ridiculous. There's a reason there aren't 100s of towns across the country who have implemented bans on leaf blowers - it makes no sense! Get ready for a snow blower ban too. That would make just as much sense. And let's make Maplewood automobile free too! Cars are dangerous and cause pollution! I have neighbors who drive their cars EVERY DAY!

FilmCarp said:

I think a couple of things are being missed in this discussion. Is this ban aimed at all leaf blowers, or landscapers, or homeowners, or just gas leafblowers? The gas ones that landscapers use all day are one thing. The electric ones that homeowners use on weekends are not nearly as loud.

jeffl said:

Get ready for a snow blower ban too. That would make just as much sense. And let's make Maplewood automobile free too! Cars are dangerous and cause pollution! I have neighbors who drive their cars EVERY DAY!

FilmCarp said:

I think a couple of things are being missed in this discussion. Is this ban aimed at all leaf blowers, or landscapers, or homeowners, or just gas leafblowers? The gas ones that landscapers use all day are one thing. The electric ones that homeowners use on weekends are not nearly as loud.

I think a couple of things are being missed in those analogies.

FilmCarp, the pilot ban this past summer, at least, applied only to commercial services, not homeowners. The resolution did not specify gas or electric, but I see that the township code defines a leaf blower as "a gas-powered device."

The resolution for the pilot ban:

http://www.twp.maplewood.nj.us/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/2478

Klinker said:

Woot said:

I stopped doing my own landscaping when I started working 60+ hours per week. I agree. This is a matter of convenience and a decision on how I want to spend my limited free time.

I don't think anyone is questioning your decision to hire a "landscaper". All we are asking is that, for the well being of your neighbors, your "landscaper" use a rake.

Simple stuff here.

I know it's not complicated. I am not asking my landscaper to do anything other than to provide me a service

Woot said:

Klinker said:

Woot said:

I stopped doing my own landscaping when I started working 60+ hours per week. I agree. This is a matter of convenience and a decision on how I want to spend my limited free time.

I don't think anyone is questioning your decision to hire a "landscaper". All we are asking is that, for the well being of your neighbors, your "landscaper" use a rake.

Simple stuff here.

I know it's not complicated. I am not asking my landscaper to do anything other than to provide me a service

Remove the leaves/grass/debris by legal means. Sounds fine. The issue arises when the means being used harm people living in the community. Fortunately, the ancients have given us a time proven tool to deal with this problem: the RAKE.

Not complicated. Simple stuff.

You know what I don't get Woot? You seem to spend an awful lot of your time worrying about guns because they hurt people but when I come here and tell you that the leaf blowers being used by "landscapers" in our communities ARE LITERALLY HURTING MY ASTHMATIC CHILD RIGHT NOW, you can't be bothered.

Why is that?

Klinker said:

I don't think anyone is questioning your decision to hire a "landscaper". All we are asking is that, for the well being of your neighbors, your "landscaper" use a rake.

Simple stuff here.

Except they are.

vdfam said:

The rise (my perception) in the use of lawn services & leaf blowers is a trend toward an increasing value placed on appearances.

annielou said:

What about senior citizens or those with either temporary or permanent disabilities? If we expect our communities to acknowledge senior issues, conversations like this one need to consider that elderly home owners may not be able to do their own yard work, as much as they would like to. Also, older taxpayers may be on a fixed income and not have the resources to hire specialized "non leaf blowing" landscapers.

You're describing two problems, (1) that some can't do the work themselves and (2) that some -- perhaps the same people -- can't afford to pay someone to do it.

If you can't do it and can't afford to pay someone, then you either need volunteer help from your neighbors or you let the work go undone.

Am I missing something?

This is what the American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology has to say about leaf blowers and asthma. If you have a child with asthma, keep him/her out of the path of blown leaves. No reason to ban all leaf blowers. There are lots of kids allergic to peanuts, but you can still find them for sale in Maplewood.

Q. One of my neighbors is always outside each Fall blowing off his large backyard patio, which is upwind from our yard where my seven-year-old son plays. My son has recently been diagnosed as having asthma, and I think he may have allergies as well. I do try to bring him inside when this neighbor uses his leaf blower. Is there any evidence that leaf blowers can cause worsening allergy and asthma symptoms?
A. When people are mowing lawns, they stir up a fair amount of mold spores. One would imagine this applies to leaf blowers as well. Also, leaf blowers probably put into the air little fragments of leaves, and other dust which could be irritating, and could aggravate asthma with exposure. Additionally, there are the exhaust fumes from gas-powered blowers. All in all, it's probably a good idea to avoid being in the path of the leaf spray. Such momentary exposures would not likely lead to increased allergies, by themselves.

Steve said:

Klinker said:

I don't think anyone is questioning your decision to hire a "landscaper". All we are asking is that, for the well being of your neighbors, your "landscaper" use a rake.

Simple stuff here.

Except they are.

vdfam said:

The rise (my perception) in the use of lawn services & leaf blowers is a trend toward an increasing value placed on appearances.

I guess you are right. I kind of agree with vdfam that people put too much value on having an exact replica of Ward Cleavers yard. That said, if people want to hire other people to construct a shrine to 1950's style conformity, far be it from me to stop them, as long as they are not harming their neighbors. Leave it to Beaver.

Again, you're criticizing people for what YOU BELIEVE to be the reason people hire landscapers. Some of us just don't have the time (many of us have tried to get it done ourselves but have been unsuccessful).

jeffl said:

This is what the American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology has to say about leaf blowers and asthma. If you have a child with asthma, keep him/her out of the path of blown leaves. No reason to ban all leaf blowers. There are lots of kids allergic to peanuts, but you can still find them for sale in Maplewood.

Q. One of my neighbors is always outside each Fall blowing off his large backyard patio, which is upwind from our yard where my seven-year-old son plays. My son has recently been diagnosed as having asthma, and I think he may have allergies as well. I do try to bring him inside when this neighbor uses his leaf blower. Is there any evidence that leaf blowers can cause worsening allergy and asthma symptoms?
A. When people are mowing lawns, they stir up a fair amount of mold spores. One would imagine this applies to leaf blowers as well. Also, leaf blowers probably put into the air little fragments of leaves, and other dust which could be irritating, and could aggravate asthma with exposure. Additionally, there are the exhaust fumes from gas-powered blowers. All in all, it's probably a good idea to avoid being in the path of the leaf spray. Such momentary exposures would not likely lead to increased allergies, by themselves.

Gee. Thanks for the swell advice. Problem solved I suppose.

The only thing is that my kid can't go outside when the blowers are going If they are inside, the windows have to be shut. I know many other parents in our community who have the same problem.

Steve said:

Again, you're criticizing people for what YOU BELIEVE to be the reason people hire landscapers. Some of us just don't have the time (many of us have tried to get it done ourselves but have been unsuccessful).

This is getting off the topic here but, just because you hire a landscaper doesn't mean your yard has too look like some sort of Eisenhowerian nightmare. In terms of aesthetic, its not the landscaper that is the problem, it is what people do with the landscaper.

But this is a discussion for another thread.

I won't argue with you. No point.

I hope your child's asthma resolves. I have an asthmatic child too.

Klinker said:

jeffl said:

This is what the American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology has to say about leaf blowers and asthma. If you have a child with asthma, keep him/her out of the path of blown leaves. No reason to ban all leaf blowers. There are lots of kids allergic to peanuts, but you can still find them for sale in Maplewood.

Q. One of my neighbors is always outside each Fall blowing off his large backyard patio, which is upwind from our yard where my seven-year-old son plays. My son has recently been diagnosed as having asthma, and I think he may have allergies as well. I do try to bring him inside when this neighbor uses his leaf blower. Is there any evidence that leaf blowers can cause worsening allergy and asthma symptoms?
A. When people are mowing lawns, they stir up a fair amount of mold spores. One would imagine this applies to leaf blowers as well. Also, leaf blowers probably put into the air little fragments of leaves, and other dust which could be irritating, and could aggravate asthma with exposure. Additionally, there are the exhaust fumes from gas-powered blowers. All in all, it's probably a good idea to avoid being in the path of the leaf spray. Such momentary exposures would not likely lead to increased allergies, by themselves.

Gee. Thanks for the swell advice. Problem solved I suppose.

The only thing is that my kid can't go outside when the blowers are going If they are inside, the windows have to be shut. I know many other parents in our community who have the same problem.

Klinker said:

You know what I don't get Woot? You seem to spend an awful lot of your time worrying about guns because they hurt people but when I come here and tell you that the leaf blowers being used by "landscapers" in our communities ARE LITERALLY HURTING MY ASTHMATIC CHILD RIGHT NOW, you can't be bothered.


Why is that?

Simple. My landscaper is not harming your child. You do not live near me. In fact, I think you do not even live in Maplewood - I think you are in South Orange. It is not complicated.

I know that your obsession with gun rights clouds your logic and objectivity regarding me, but you still need to settle down and stop yelling.

Woot said:

Klinker said:

You know what I don't get Woot? You seem to spend an awful lot of your time worrying about guns because they hurt people but when I come here and tell you that the leaf blowers being used by "landscapers" in our communities ARE LITERALLY HURTING MY ASTHMATIC CHILD RIGHT NOW, you can't be bothered.


Why is that?

Simple. My landscaper is not harming your child. You do not live near me. In fact, I think you do not even live in Maplewood - I think you are in South Orange. It is not complicated.

We share the same streets, the same schools, the same public places. That said, perhaps it is not my kids who are being poisoned by your pollution but it is some equally unfortunate parent who has to sit up all night fretting because you don't care enough to do the right thing. Ethically, I can't see how that makes a difference.

Woot said:

I know that your obsession with gun rights clouds your logic and objectivity regarding me, but you still need to settle down and stop yelling.

Oh, I am sorry. Is my hacking child disturbing your peace as well? I tend to yell when some hypocritical jack asp insists that it is his right to hurt my kid and the kids like them. Please forgive me.

Leaf blowers may be a contributing reason for your child's asthma but there are certainly other factors. The problem is today's environment. Why not quit driving your car if you want to help fix things. Move somewhere where trucks don't have to make deliveries and you can grow your own produce and raise your own livestock. If you are living in this area you will probably have to ban all internal combustion engines to fix your kid.

please email the TC to counteract this ridiculous proposal. Summer months are one thing, year round is ridiculous. I don't work until 9 and 10 pm every night to have to come home, walk my dog and rake friggin leaves. I pay landscapers for a valuable service.

Next these people will demand that i cut m own grass with a scissor. This nonsense has officially gone too far.

quercus, RC, I couldn't agree with you more. And I have a sense that the Township Committee has already made up their minds. I hope that I'm wrong.

An email campaign is probably the last chance to stop this decision. I think the ban folks went to the last meeting in force. If the reality is that most folks are against it, it's important to speak up now or we'll be stuck with this ban for the rest of eternity. Remember what happened with the turf field?

Here are their email addresses:

v.deluca@twp.maplewood.nj.us

nadams@twp.maplewood.nj.us

ILarrier@twp.maplewood.nj.us

glembrich@twp.maplewood.nj.us

The Web site isn't up to date. It doesn't have Ian Grodman's email address but I'm guessing it's igrodman@twp.maplewood.nj.us.

If someone would also post when the next discussion will be, perhaps the anti-ban folks can come out in number as well. Otherwise, start your rakes!

Robert_Casotto said:

please email the TC to counteract this ridiculous proposal. Summer months are one thing, year round is ridiculous. I don't work until 9 and 10 pm every night to have to come home, walk my dog and rake friggin leaves. I pay landscapers for a valuable service.

Next these people will demand that i cut m own grass with a scissor. This nonsense has officially gone too far.

Is this a real proposal? Summer ban was one thing, even that was not permanent. It would be funny if all you folks are arguing about something that's not really happening, kind of like Clintons emails. Just asking.

PS. The Maplewood website has all the meeting minutes, agendas, and video online and easy to access.

I've been a stay-at-home mom here for 9 years, and the leaf blowers have never bothered me. Of course that doesn't mean they don't bother other people, but I think there is a give and take when living in a community and when people are so close by, there are things you just have to deal with regarding what your neighbors choose to do with their property.

Banning leaf blowers just seems like big brother gone overboard to me. And quite an inconvenience for those of us with larger yards. Some people on these boards must be super power rakers, because I've raked my front yard from time to time to get exercise, and it's taken me well over two hours. If I were to do the side and back yards, that time would likely triple. I think 6 hours, on more or less a weekly basis from end of September to beginning of November, is a bit much to ask. And trust me, my yard is no great shakes. But my kids like to play soccer and golf, and the leaves make it difficult, so we blow them ourselves to get them off the lawn.

I feel for people whose children are affected by leaf blowers- that sucks. My husband has asthma, so I understand the problems it can cause. Wouldn't the best solution be to talk to your neighbors and ask them to blow their leaves when your child is at school, or you could work out a time convenient for your family to take him or her elsewhere? We all want to protect our children, but it's not possible to legislate away everything that may affect them. The world isn't always going to change to accommodate them, so I think the best life lessons are to show how compromise, working with neighbors, etc. can help them manage whatever problem they are dealing with.

Somehow we got along without leaf blowers until 10-15 years ago. People (landscapers AND clients) can adjust. I would certainly love to see this pass. If you (or your landscaper) aren't willing or able to rake, you can put a catcher on a mower and catch the leaves there and then either pile them in the street or (better) use them to mulch your garden or collect in a composter. And, I suspect that any ban would be of the higher powered gasoline blowers, not the residential/individual type, so DIY-ers could still use them. (But I'll bet most DIY-ers would use them a couple of times a season and not incessantly like the landscapers do.)

noseygirl99 said:

Banning leaf blowers just seems like big brother gone overboard to me. And quite an inconvenience for those of us with larger yards. Some people on these boards must be super power rakers, because I've raked my front yard from time to time to get exercise, and it's taken me well over two hours. If I were to do the side and back yards, that time would likely triple. I think 6 hours, on more or less a weekly basis from end of September to beginning of November, is a bit much to ask. And trust me, my yard is no great shakes. But my kids like to play soccer and golf, and the leaves make it difficult, so we blow them ourselves to get them off the lawn. .

This sometimes gets lost in the discussion: Homeowners remain free to use leaf blowers themselves to care for their lawn. The ban covers only commercial landscaping businesses that residents hire to maintain their yards for them.

We also got along without cars, TVs, etc, noseygirl99, well said! Friends from out of town cannot believe that Maplewood is considering this.

sac said:

Somehow we got along without leaf blowers until 10-15 years ago. People (landscapers AND clients) can adjust. I would certainly love to see this pass. If you (or your landscaper) aren't willing or able to rake, you can put a catcher on a mower and catch the leaves there and then either pile them in the street or (better) use them to mulch your garden or collect in a composter. And, I suspect that any ban would be of the higher powered gasoline blowers, not the residential/individual type, so DIY-ers could still use them. (But I'll bet most DIY-ers would use them a couple of times a season and not incessantly like the landscapers do.)

sac said:

Somehow we got along without leaf blowers until 10-15 years ago. People (landscapers AND clients) can adjust. I would certainly love to see this pass. If you (or your landscaper) aren't willing or able to rake, you can put a catcher on a mower and catch the leaves there and then either pile them in the street or (better) use them to mulch your garden or collect in a composter. And, I suspect that any ban would be of the higher powered gasoline blowers, not the residential/individual type, so DIY-ers could still use them. (But I'll bet most DIY-ers would use them a couple of times a season and not incessantly like the landscapers do.)

We also got along without smartphones 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of the convenience they provide. And why should I have to adjust to not using a leaf blower? Why can't you adjust to them being used? Sometimes my neighbors dogs barking drives me crazy, but I'm not advocating for banning dogs. I like my neighbors, and I deal with it, because that is what it means to live in a community.

And why should I have to use a mower with a catch because you want me to? I'd rather everyone drive hybrids, but I can't make them. I'd rather everyone put solar panels on their homes, but again, not my decision.

This all looks a bit like a solution looking for a problem.

Have you spent weekday times at home, especially with a small baby but otherwise trying to work (be it housework, jobwork, whatever) and have to put up with the noise of those things day in and day out? The other things mentioned do not compare with the aggravation of having to listen to them on and off all day, every day. And then there's the dust (which contains a lot of nastiness) that gets kicked up by them, especially in the summertime. If blowers were used sensibly, I probably wouldn't mind. Sensibly means 2-3 times in the fall per home per the township collection schedule when the leaves are really falling fast and furious. The uses at the other times of year, or more frequently during the fall, are what drive us work-at-homers nuts and are really not necessary for the jobs at hand at those times. In fact, my family has an electric blower, which my spouse uses once or twice during the fall as well, but could switch to exclusively using the mower if there was a ban. It's the overuse of the blowers by the landscapers that has led to the need for more control or a possible ban.

jeffl said:

We also got along without cars, TVs, etc, noseygirl99, well said!

Life without commercially operated leaf blowers. Life without cars or TVs. It's a wash.

noseygirl99 said:

We also got along without smartphones 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of the convenience they provide.

Life without commercially operated leaf blowers. Life without a smartphone. Got me there. The latter is easier.

And why should I have to adjust to not using a leaf blower?

Happily, you don't.