Banning leaf blowers permanently

theneighbor said:

Not sure how much of an impact a ban on blowers would have if you can just ride a mower around and suck up all the leaves as a workaround. We would need a method to differentiate actual mowing vs leaf collection. Maybe set a decibel limit. Then set specs on certified decibel meters. And certified decibel meter operator training.

They already have a decibel law in place.

I thought the 65 dB limit was limited to leaf blowers. Lawn mowers are about 90, right?

This is the first time I'm hearing about this ban. So, just to make sure I understand, the issue is that leaf blowers are too loud, so the Town would like to ban them permanently? Personally, the noise doesn't bother me - it's not everyday for hours at a time and I'm at work during the week. With that said, I find lawn mowers and trimmers just as noisy as most leaf blowers, so what then? Are they the next thing to be banned? What about those people who can't physically rake their lawn nor afford the extra costs of having someone do it manually? Have we thought about what this ban might do to them and their property? There may be other harmful consequences to this ban, which I hope those deciding have thought through, because at the moment I don't see how/why this ban is worth it.

Well, there is a big difference between gas powered commercial back pack blowers and smaller electric homeowner models when it comes to noise. Ban the loud ones, allow the less noisy ones.

bklyngirl said:

Personally, the noise doesn't bother me - it's not everyday for hours at a time and I'm at work during the week.

Yes, leaf-blowing does take place every day for hours at a time!! But you're at work, so you don't hear it.

This is why the arguments keep going in circles. It's the people who are home during the day and have to endure the noise vs. the people who are at work during the day, don't have to listen to the noise, and think it's a great convenience that should not be restricted.

Here's a compromise: Allow commercial landscapers unlimited use of leafblowers dawn to dusk every Saturday and Sunday. Only rakes during the week.

Don't live in M'wood but do work from home and do hear leaf blowers and they don't bother me. I also use a leaf blower as we have many trees, a sizable lot and an oak that rains acorns, and we don't employ a landscaper. I couldn't image what yard work would be like sans the leaf blower. We don't use it weekly and don't use it during the week, nor are we up at 8am on a Saturday or Sunday blowing away. Raking leaves and acorns isn't fun for anyone, especially when you have a big lot and a long driveway. I really wouldn't want someone mandating how to care for my property with the enormous taxes both towns pay.

kthnry said:

bklyngirl said:

Personally, the noise doesn't bother me - it's not everyday for hours at a time and I'm at work during the week.

Yes, leaf-blowing does take place every day for hours at a time!! But you're at work, so you don't hear it.

This is why the arguments keep going in circles. It's the people who are home during the day and have to endure the noise vs. the people who are at work during the day, don't have to listen to the noise, and think it's a great convenience that should not be restricted.

Here's a compromise: Allow commercial landscapers unlimited use of leafblowers dawn to dusk every Saturday and Sunday. Only rakes during the week.

kibbegirl, taxes have absolutely nothing to do with it. How loud is your leaf blower? Electric or gas?

kthnry said:

bklyngirl said:

Personally, the noise doesn't bother me - it's not everyday for hours at a time and I'm at work during the week.

Yes, leaf-blowing does take place every day for hours at a time!! But you're at work, so you don't hear it.

This is why the arguments keep going in circles. It's the people who are home during the day and have to endure the noise vs. the people who are at work during the day, don't have to listen to the noise, and think it's a great convenience that should not be restricted.

Here's a compromise: Allow commercial landscapers unlimited use of leafblowers dawn to dusk every Saturday and Sunday. Only rakes during the week.

Wouldn't bother me... that's when I and all my neighbors who are working during the week and without landscapers use their leafblowers.

Most of my block uses the same landscaper. If he does every house, I'd bet his team of leaf blowers can be heard for, at most, 30 minutes, once a week. That's much less time than a single neighbor using their leaf blower to do their single property. I'd rather allow commercial landscapers to use leaf blowers than to limit it to homeowners.

All these machines could have effective sound mufflers on them. But their exhaust also pollutes the air and they blow particulate pesticides into the air for your kids to breath.

Frankly, I'm much more worried about the imminent physical danger presented to my kids by drivers in the area than some particulates that they're probably not coming within 200 feet of.

we should ban samsung galaxy note 7s as well. Someone could be walking by my house, and bam.

For the money we pay in property taxes, I wouldn't want my town (So. Orange) mandating what tools I can and cannot use to maintain my property. It's my home and my responsibility to upkeep and because I'm not 20 anymore, I don't want a few hours raking leaves during the week to put me into suspended animation with constant doses of Advil.

We have a backpack blower - not sure of the decibel but with ear buds, it's tolerable; it's both gas and electric. Towards the end of leaf falling season, we rent the big daddy blower so we can get as many up as possible for the last street pick up. Funny how some of my neighbors who don't own blowers and do as much as they can raking, want to get in on the action - and we happily oblige.

What can be a happy medium to all is to continue to have blower use for both landscapers and property owners but charge a minimal convenience fee to do so. What this money would cover is up to the residents but the windfall could be quite epic.

FilmCarp said:

kibbegirl, taxes have absolutely nothing to do with it. How loud is your leaf blower? Electric or gas?

Man, you are fixated on money. What the people who want the ban want is less noise during the week. What benefit would they get from another fee being forced on landscapers? That's no solution.

Gas lawn mowers run about the same decibel levels as backpack blowers, assuming the interwebs are correct... what gives mowers immunity?

because we like our bans to have no basis in reality around here, other than th thing being banned being acutely offensive to someone with good TC access.

@kthnry: I'm sure that if you were to take the time to jot down the start/end time of the day when you hear the first leaf blower and every day that you hear it, then you will see that it is not every single day for hours at a time.

theneighbor said:

Gas lawn mowers run about the same decibel levels as backpack blowers, assuming the interwebs are correct... what gives mowers immunity?

I think it is funny that I often hear anti-leafblower folks say that you just need to run your mower along the sidewalk/driveway to deal with the grass clippings. Given that the mower has just as high of a decibel level I am not sure what they are gaining.

youre so appalled...then why don't you give up your mulching mower.

tourn said:

There really is no need to ever use a leaf blower. I have about an acre of lawn and never use a blower. A good mulching mower will just chop up the leaves so finely, they disappear into the lawn and provide food for the grass. All this preening and manicuring is a sickness of sorts, maybe related to economic inequality in some way.

This extreme landscaping etiquette is not environmentally sustainable. Nitrate levels in our watersheds have actually gone up over the last 15 years after going down for the previous 20 years. More pesticides are being discharged into streams than ever before in a non-agricultural landscape. Roundup comes down in the rain. There are NO safe pesticides. They are designed to kill things.

Moreover, we are in a drought. Wasting water on lawn watering may impact your drinking water supply. What's more important?

If all you got out of that is a false fixation on money, well....

FilmCarp said:

Man, you are fixated on money. What the people who want the ban want is less noise during the week. What benefit would they get from another fee being forced on landscapers? That's no solution.

This is what I mainly experience. It's not daily, hourly or even throughout the day.

Our towns can't be all things to all people: quiet in the daytime hours for caregivers and those who work from home - and again, I work from home; quiet on the weekends for those who've worked all week and want pure silence. Many of us are from the boroughs and not from farm country. I'll take an intermittent leaf blower over loud music, train noise, next door neighbor noise, traffic noise and dogs left to their own devices for upwards of 8 hours a day ANY DAY.

bklyngirl said:

@kthnry: I'm sure that if you were to take the time to jot down the start/end time of the day when you hear the first leaf blower and every day that you hear it, then you will see that it is not every single day for hours at a time.

My mower is electric and extremely quiet compared to any leaf blower.

unixiscool said:

theneighbor said:

Gas lawn mowers run about the same decibel levels as backpack blowers, assuming the interwebs are correct... what gives mowers immunity?

I think it is funny that I often hear anti-leafblower folks say that you just need to run your mower along the sidewalk/driveway to deal with the grass clippings. Given that the mower has just as high of a decibel level I am not sure what they are gaining.

kthnry said:

Here's a compromise: Allow commercial landscapers unlimited use of leafblowers dawn to dusk every Saturday and Sunday. Only rakes during the week.

The Commuternistas would be rioting in the street demanding a ban if this were to happen. Many of these people really have no idea what they are inflicting on there at home neighbors.

ffof said:

youre so appalled...then why don't you give up your mulching mower.

tourn said:

There really is no need to ever use a leaf blower. I have about an acre of lawn and never use a blower. A good mulching mower will just chop up the leaves so finely, they disappear into the lawn and provide food for the grass. All this preening and manicuring is a sickness of sorts, maybe related to economic inequality in some way.

This extreme landscaping etiquette is not environmentally sustainable. Nitrate levels in our watersheds have actually gone up over the last 15 years after going down for the previous 20 years. More pesticides are being discharged into streams than ever before in a non-agricultural landscape. Roundup comes down in the rain. There are NO safe pesticides. They are designed to kill things.

Moreover, we are in a drought. Wasting water on lawn watering may impact your drinking water supply. What's more important?

My mower is electric, battery powered, built in 1974 by GE recharged with solar electricity. By the way, nitrate levels in streams are especially high right now due to lack of rain. You get your drinking water from a stream. So maybe you all should skip the fertilizer this fall.

kibbegirl said:

For the money we pay in property taxes, .....

Godwin's Law: MSO Extension. 2nd occurrence. This thread is done.

tourn said:
By the way, nitrate levels in streams are especially high right now due to lack of rain. You get your drinking water from a stream. So maybe you all should skip the fertilizer this fall.

Good point. One need only look at the damage nitrates are doing to our waterways and coastal regions to see that the benefits are FAR outweighed by the terrible costs. We use a mulching mower and our lawn is greener than that of my neighbors who saturates his lawn with chemicals.

But none of the landscapers have electric mowers. You are just pushing the landscaping companies to use a different piece of machinery that, most likely, is louder and more polluting than a leaf blower.

yahooyahoo said:

My mower is electric and extremely quiet compared to any leaf blower.

unixiscool said:

theneighbor said:

Gas lawn mowers run about the same decibel levels as backpack blowers, assuming the interwebs are correct... what gives mowers immunity?

I think it is funny that I often hear anti-leafblower folks say that you just need to run your mower along the sidewalk/driveway to deal with the grass clippings. Given that the mower has just as high of a decibel level I am not sure what they are gaining.

unixiscool said:

But none of the landscapers have electric mowers. You are just pushing the landscaping companies to use a different piece of machinery that, MOST LIKELY, is louder and more polluting than a leaf blower.

I think the key word here is "MOST LIKELY" since electric mowers are both quieter and less polluting (by an order of magnitude) than gas leaf cannons. I am tempted to take your statement as disingenuous.

unixiscool said:

theneighbor said:

Gas lawn mowers run about the same decibel levels as backpack blowers, assuming the interwebs are correct... what gives mowers immunity?

I think it is funny that I often hear anti-leafblower folks say that you just need to run your mower along the sidewalk/driveway to deal with the grass clippings. Given that the mower has just as high of a decibel level I am not sure what they are gaining.

Speed and multipurposing. If a worker with a leaf blower walked the length of a sidewalk and driveway as quickly as I did with a push mower in my youth -- and if that was all the blower was used for -- I doubt there'd be much objection. Bring a blower, though, and the tasks expand to use it, so I think the suggestion of mowing the sidewalk, as ctrzaska memorably put it, is mainly a way of saying it's another reason you don't need one. (Granted, a mower doesn't leave a path so pristine you could perform elective surgery on it.)

How has no one mentioned the detrimental effects of canine fecal particulates? This town is turning into Del Boca Vista Phase IV with all the rules.