Banning leaf blowers permanently

dave said:

This all looks a bit like a solution looking for a problem.

If you're looking for the problem, according to those who see one, I thought Nancy Adams laid it out pretty reasonably at this month's TC meeting:

Tonight we are seeking input from residents in particular about the pilot ban of leaf blowers this past summer.

Originally, I advocated for this leaf blower ban because, as someone who works from home, I was weary of the interruption in my day by the proliferation of leaf blowers used by landscapers. I literally could not escape the noise at some point during every day of the week; some days were worse than others, like yesterday when I was writing my introduction to this discussion. I am not exaggerating at all when I say that from 9AM until 3:45, I spent time closing and reopening doors and windows of my house (on a beautiful day, I might add) in order to try to muffle the sound. It never completely disappears. Some of these were from landscapers across the street or down the road, others were a block or two away. Through months of reading and researching, I understand why I can hear a leaf blower from 2 blocks away but not a lawn mower or week whacker. The 2-stroke engines of the leaf blowers operate at a lower frequency that penetrates doors, windows and walls and CANNOT be completely blocked out.

The environmental and the health issues associated with these 2-stroke engines, which, by the way have been disallowed on motorcycles for 2 plus decades because of the emissions issues, are real concerns over and above the annoyance factor or the interruption of peace and quiet in town that residents are reasonable to expect.

While I have heard and read that this issue is unimportant, that there are more important things the TC should be working on, I believe this is a public health issue first and foremost. That said, we are compiling research and direction from a subcommittee that has been interviewing area commercial landscapers and doing research to give to the Township Committee in the coming months to provide background and relevant information to help the TC make a decision any future bans or ordinance changes in regard to these machines.

While the TC does not have a desire to hurt existing businesses, it is also, in my opinion more importantly responsible for providing our residents with a clean and environmentally healthy place to live.

What would be nice to hear tonight instead of the obvious comments from commercial landscapers that you don’t want them banned, would be some solutions that would make us all happier. The issue of the ban came up in large part because for years now the landscaping companies have ignored our law, one that they helped craft and negotiate. Even after the ban was lifted on September 1st, the existing 65 db level law was wantonly ignored and the more powerful, dirtier leaf blowers were used by most landscapers instead. So, I’d like to hear your suggestions, especially those of you who obey the law, to get your fellow landscapers to follow the law and thus make the playing field even for everyone. I’d like to hear from residents who are opposed to a summer ban, why you are and why your contractor using a leaf blower is important to you, why do you care what tools are used by someone doing a service for you. (Btw, I should add that although you may hear differently, statistics in places where leaf blowers have been banned show that the cost for landscaping services have not risen and customer satisfaction is high.) From those residents in favor of the ban, I’d like to hear why and what is important to you on this issue.

http://villagegreennj.com/towns/residents-landscapers-speak-maplewood-leaf-blower-ban/

What do landscapers say? How much more will they charge to manually rake large properties? This is effectively a hidden tax on people who work long hours.

sac said:

Have you spent weekday times at home, especially with a small baby but otherwise trying to work (be it housework, jobwork, whatever) and have to put up with the noise of those things day in and day out? The other things mentioned do not compare with the aggravation of having to listen to them on and off all day, every day. And then there's the dust (which contains a lot of nastiness) that gets kicked up by them, especially in the summertime. If blowers were used sensibly, I probably wouldn't mind. Sensibly means 2-3 times in the fall per home per the township collection schedule when the leaves are really falling fast and furious. The uses at the other times of year, or more frequently during the fall, are what drive us work-at-homers nuts and are really not necessary for the jobs at hand at those times. In fact, my family has an electric blower, which my spouse uses once or twice during the fall as well, but could switch to exclusively using the mower if there was a ban. It's the overuse of the blowers by the landscapers that has led to the need for more control or a possible ban.

YES! I've been a stay-at-home mom in Maplewood for 9 years, raised two babies in this leaf-blower infested town, and never once found it to be a bother. It's white noise to me that I don't even notice. And I bet we are one of the few houses on the block that doesn't use a professional landscaper.

We have an electric leaf blower. We probably use it in a way you would consider "sensible". But my issue is with a minority of people telling the majority what to do with their property- I don't like it, and I think it's arrogant and selfish. It's the grown up equivalent of taking your ball and going home. Why should you get to define "sensible" leaf blower use for your neighbors? What gives you that right?

And, what happens when someone wants to ban something that you find convenient? Where does it stop?

Perhaps the township could investigage ways to enforce the regulations regarding noise level, leaf collection schedule and restrictions regarding blowing materials into the street other than per the leaf collection schedule. Currently there is no enforcement that I am aware of for any of these and that could go a long way toward making the situation more tolerable. The summer ban tried to address the issue that landscapers seem to spend 10-15 minutes on every house after mowing doing rather random blowing of relatively little material that could be cleaned up in much less time or simply caught in a grass catcher as they mow. But, instead, the walk around blowing the clippings and usually putting them into the street which isn't allowed.

sac said:

Have you spent weekday times at home, especially with a small baby but otherwise trying to work (be it housework, jobwork, whatever) and have to put up with the noise of those things day in and day out? The other things mentioned do not compare with the aggravation of having to listen to them on and off all day, every day. And then there's the dust (which contains a lot of nastiness) that gets kicked up by them, especially in the summertime. If blowers were used sensibly, I probably wouldn't mind. Sensibly means 2-3 times in the fall per home per the township collection schedule when the leaves are really falling fast and furious. The uses at the other times of year, or more frequently during the fall, are what drive us work-at-homers nuts and are really not necessary for the jobs at hand at those times. In fact, my family has an electric blower, which my spouse uses once or twice during the fall as well, but could switch to exclusively using the mower if there was a ban. It's the overuse of the blowers by the landscapers that has led to the need for more control or a possible ban.

My wife has been home for the last 18 years, 16 of which have been in Maplewood, a third of which with small children (including newborns). She barely notices them, at least not any more than the mowers, edgers, garbage trucks, UPS guys, etc etc.

Folks! Check out the South Orange forum!! Seton Hall students are raking leaves for a donation to a fundraiser. I think it is Habitat for Humanity. Get your leaves RAKED for a good cause and enjoy the silence!

dave said:

What do landscapers say? How much more will they charge to manually rake large properties? This is effectively a hidden tax on people who work long hours.

I can't vouch for the data, but Adams's statement included this: "Btw, I should add that although you may hear differently, statistics in places where leaf blowers have been banned show that the cost for landscaping services have not risen and customer satisfaction is high."

For a donation, Seton Hall University's Habitat for Humanity will rake your lawn!
We will be raking:
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 6TH
SATURDAY NOVEMBER 12TH
SUNDAY NOVEMBER 13TH
FRIDAY NOVEMBER 18TH
SATURDAY NOVEMBER 19TH
SUNDAY NOVEMBER 20TH

If interested, please email Habitat with your date preference at:
HabitatForHumanity@shu.edu
All proceeds will go to the Alternative Spring Break house building trip in March 2017!

Quote

ctrzaska said:

sac said:

Have you spent weekday times at home, especially with a small baby but otherwise trying to work (be it housework, jobwork, whatever) and have to put up with the noise of those things day in and day out? The other things mentioned do not compare with the aggravation of having to listen to them on and off all day, every day. And then there's the dust (which contains a lot of nastiness) that gets kicked up by them, especially in the summertime. If blowers were used sensibly, I probably wouldn't mind. Sensibly means 2-3 times in the fall per home per the township collection schedule when the leaves are really falling fast and furious. The uses at the other times of year, or more frequently during the fall, are what drive us work-at-homers nuts and are really not necessary for the jobs at hand at those times. In fact, my family has an electric blower, which my spouse uses once or twice during the fall as well, but could switch to exclusively using the mower if there was a ban. It's the overuse of the blowers by the landscapers that has led to the need for more control or a possible ban.

My wife has been home for the last 18 years, 16 of which have been in Maplewood, a third of which with small children (including newborns). She barely notices them, at least not any more than the mowers, edgers, garbage trucks, UPS guys, etc etc.

She's lucky then and your babes must have been very good sleepers. Mine were awakened by the noise on many occasions. Do you have central A/C? I don't, so my windows are open during the summer and that was the worst time for the noise. (But I can certainly hear them even when the windows are closed as well.) And there is definitely something about their motors that is louder and/or more penetrating than the sounds from mowers, edgers, etc.

DaveSchmidt said:

dave said:

What do landscapers say? How much more will they charge to manually rake large properties? This is effectively a hidden tax on people who work long hours.

I can't vouch for the data, but Adams's statement included this: "Btw, I should add that although you may hear differently, statistics in places where leaf blowers have been banned show that the cost for landscaping services have not risen and customer satisfaction is high."

That would be good news, but I'm skeptical. And I think the health aspect is important. I can see both sides on this.

DaveSchmidt said:

dave said:

What do landscapers say? How much more will they charge to manually rake large properties? This is effectively a hidden tax on people who work long hours.

I can't vouch for the data, but Adams's statement included this: "Btw, I should add that although you may hear differently, statistics in places where leaf blowers have been banned show that the cost for landscaping services have not risen and customer satisfaction is high."

What "places"? Did she specify? Meaningless without context.

sac said:

And there is definitely something about their motors that is louder and/or more penetrating than the sounds from mowers, edgers, etc.

Not to keep treating Adams's statement like the Leafblower Compact, but did you notice this part? "Through months of reading and researching, I understand why I can hear a leaf blower from 2 blocks away but not a lawn mower or week whacker. The 2-stroke engines of the leaf blowers operate at a lower frequency that penetrates doors, windows and walls and CANNOT be completely blocked out."

What to do with this EPA finding?

"Sweeping with a broom on concrete created significant PM emissions whereas sweeping asphalt did not."

https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/conference/ei15/session5/fitz.pdf

There used to be pear trees and apple trees on many Maplewood properties years ago. But all that nasty edible fruit was spoiling the lawn underneath. So most were cut down. I think that a lot of people have lost touch with the nature around them and try to compensate by controlling every last blade of grass. It is mostly a suburban psychosis of some sort. There were no leaf blowers 40 years ago. We raked them to the curb and burned them till it was banned by the 1970's. Thanks to marketing by companies like Scotts, and growing disposable income, the perfect lawn became a status symbol some time in the 1990's I think. Rich people belonged to country clubs and golf courses and extending the country club look to your own place proved you had made good. With it came the need for lots of pesticides and urea fertilizer. Doing all that work yourself became tedious, so landscapers were hired. Then leaf blowers were invented. We've been going down hill ever since. This over control of nature is detrimental to the environment and therefore to human beings. Pesticides are poisons, endocrine disrupters, nerve poisons, carcinogens and more. Chemical fertilizers pollute our streams and drinking water. The equipment used in the process burns fossil fuels, creates smog, particulates, greenhouse gases, and noise. And to what end? At what point will it not be worth it?

What's it to you if that's what people want? You can have fruit trees on your property. Enjoy.

dave said:

What to do with this EPA finding?

"Sweeping with a broom on concrete created significant PM emissions whereas sweeping asphalt did not."

https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/conference/ei15/session5/fitz.pdf

Except you left out all the other findings that raking produced no fine particulates at all. And that blowing always produced more particulates, especially over dirt, which produced the most. So what's the point? Moreover, it is not an "EPA finding." It is a study that is only "50 percent reproducible" conducted in a lab.

dave said:

What to do with this EPA finding?

"Sweeping with a broom on concrete created significant PM emissions whereas sweeping asphalt did not."

https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/conference/ei15/session5/fitz.pdf

Ban sidewalks? It's a slippery slope.

The particulate matter from sweeping concrete was equivalent to the PM from blowers on concrete. The PM from sweeping asphalt was about half the PM from blowers on asphalt. PM advantage: brooms.

tourn said:

dave said:

What to do with this EPA finding?

"Sweeping with a broom on concrete created significant PM emissions whereas sweeping asphalt did not."

https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/conference/ei15/session5/fitz.pdf

Except you left out all the other findings that raking produced no fine particulates at all. And that blowing always produced more particulates, especially over dirt, which produced the most. So what's the point? Moreover, it is not an "EPA finding." It is a study that is only "50 percent reproducible" conducted in a lab.

Can't conduct this study outside of a lab. Too dangerous.

ctrzaska said:

What "places"? Did she specify? Meaningless without context.

I suppose we could ask here: Did anybody who uses a lawn service notice a spike in the price for weekly maintenance this summer? If so, how much, and did the landscaper cite the ban?

I had to fire my landscaper, a Maplewood resident, because they didnt have a mulching mower and took to leaving the clippings on my lawn. My new landscaper, not a Mapleood resident has already told me the charge will be doubled if his guya have to rake leaves. Not t mention that those of us with fairly expensive hardscaping on our property may not want to rake instead of blow.

It's fairly amazing to me that this initiative seems to be a pet project from a handful of people, one of which, unfortunately, got themselves on the TC.

Not only are there more important things for a governing body to worry about, this one will actually infringe on our property rights, increase our already exorbitant living costs, and for these reasons, it's a ridiculous idea, and the TC is hearing about it, that I can guarantee you.

Robert_Casotto said:

Not only are there more important things for a governing body to worry about, this one will actually infringe on our property rights, increase our already exorbitant living costs, and for these reasons, it's a ridiculous idea, and the TC is hearing about it, that I can guarantee you.

Property rights don't include the right to bombard the neighborhood with machinery noise. Whatever the merits of a ban on noisy yard machinery, property rights and the impact on landscapers really aren't a factor.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/RTM-rejects-leaf-blower-ban-3626160.php

Voters in Greenwich CT, 2012, vote down leaf blower ban.

http://patch.com/new-jersey/montclair/montclair-remains-divided-leaf-blower-law-0

Montclair haunted by leaf blowers for over a decade

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/20blowerwe.html

Rye, NY leaf blower ban going strong since 2008

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/home_blog/2011/06/leaf-blower-ban-los-angeles.html

Ground Zero for leaf blower bans - LA's ban first to spawn arguments concerning asthma, particulates, pollution, and noise.

Any wonder why towns that have a decent concentration actors, actresses, singers, producers, musicians, artists, videographers, sound engineers, movie shoot locations, and bloggers-by-day would vigorously seek Leaf Blower Bans?

Why is it that pollution, particulates, and asthma is a non-starter for this issue but Noise is?

Is it surprising that in towns of 20,000-80,000 residents one can find a few underwater finger-pointy Moms and Dads with an asthmatic child? How do asthmatics survive in towns without leaf blower bans? Is every other town in America killing these kids? Do these stuck-in-the-past towns not matter because I don't know Someone Famous from there?

Dave, this was only the case for the trial run this summer. A permanent ban would apply to all, even homeowners.

DaveSchmidt said:

This sometimes gets lost in the discussion: Homeowners remain free to use leaf blowers themselves to care for their lawn. The ban covers only commercial landscaping businesses that residents hire to maintain their yards for them.

Robert_Casotto said:

this one will actually infringe on our property rights

That's rich. I'll offer another perspective: your property rights end at my property line.

I regularly come home from work to find my front porch furniture covered with a layer of dirt, dust, sand, and assorted pulverized lawn debris. It's also not uncommon for my kitchen to be blanketed in the same. The culprit? Neighbor's yard care service blowing clouds of who-knows-what onto my property and into my open windows.

unixiscool said:

Dave, this was only the case for the trial run this summer. A permanent ban would apply to all, even homeowners.

DaveSchmidt said:

This sometimes gets lost in the discussion: Homeowners remain free to use leaf blowers themselves to care for their lawn. The ban covers only commercial landscaping businesses that residents hire to maintain their yards for them.

I've been trying to find details of what a permanent ban would entail, and who is proposing it. Where did you see or hear them?

Never been bothered by leaf blowers. Will consider using a 2 stroke leaf vacuum if it passes.

If those are banned, I hope all the noise-tortured neighbors will indulge the sound of my 2 stroke chainsaw. I promise, you'll hear it one afternoon and never again. Leaf problem solved!

Cuttin' your tree down? That's a paddlin'.

Antagonizing the tree huggers? Thaaat's a paddlin'

I've also been a SAHM for many years and have worked intermittently from home, living in two different homes on two different streets and no, the leaf blowers have never interfered in my day to day activities or have woken napping children.

The issue boils down to how much is banning going to cost homeowners who pay and rely upon landscapers. If issuing a ban means that landscapers now must rake in lieu of blowing, that's an entirely different monthly pay scale for homeowners and more man power for landscapers as well as longer work hours. From our experience, on our lot, we cannot rake in one day and expect to be finished. You're never finished until the last leaves have fallen.

If I had a small'ish lot, more than likely I would not have a blower but my lot isn't small and we have many trees that produce many acorns including two pine trees with robust cones. In the beginning, we tried raking all of Mother Nature's bounty sans a leaf blower. It's brutal. It's time consuming. That's when we purchased a blower. We rake a bit and blow a bit. We use the blower to gather all onto the massive tarp and drag it to the street, down a long drive. If we choose to hire a full time landscaper to do this, what would be our cost for a few guys to RAKE and bring all to the curb? Not cheap is the answer. No one would be able to afford landscapers and landscapers would no longer be profitable in MW.

DaveSchmidt said:

ctrzaska said:

What "places"? Did she specify? Meaningless without context.

I suppose we could ask here: Did anybody who uses a lawn service notice a spike in the price for weekly maintenance this summer? If so, how much, and did the landscaper cite the ban?

I did not, but my landscaper never stopped using leaf blowers