Anyone planning to forgo health insurance in 2018 due to cost?

dave said:

conandrob240 said:

serious question. What other country could one move to for retirement where health care insurance would be covered? I am okay now because we have decent coverage still though employer plans. But I refuse to let the $ I've saved be taken away from me in old age because I need long- term care. What are the options? I'd prefer warm, by the way

Hong Kong.

Tell us the health care situation there. Do you pay a premium? Do you pay for visits? Prescriptions? How does it work for noncitizens?

Anywhere you go, you had better go now.  No country is going to admit someone and then give them expensive benefits when they have not been paying into the system.  Health care isn't free in those countries, it is paid for through taxation. I'm in favor of that, by the way.

so, you can move to another country at 57-58 years old, buy property, pay your taxes and become part of that country’s healthcare system? I actually know (through an acquaintance) an older gentlemen who moved to Mexico for cheap long-term care. I think he paid for it, like a nursing home situation but it was apparently dirt cheap. I don’t think that extreme type of thing is for me but Europe would be.

What does monthly healthcare cost look like for 2 people through ACA? Is there a way to get an idea without enrolling to buy it?

I'm not sure you can do that in most European countries unless you already have a family or work connection, can you

FilmCarp said:

Anywhere you go, you had better go now.  No country is going to admit someone and then give them expensive benefits when they have not been paying into the system.  Health care isn't free in those countries, it is paid for through taxation. I'm in favor of that, by the way.

Yes every country has requirements for citizenship.   Europe's are not easy.  

this is what I figured. Is citizenship the only route? 

Europe doesn't want us.  They will very rarely take highly skilled young people, but never old who aren't going to pay in.

I'm reading that it isn't as hard in some countries as is being described. Belgium seems to be pretty easy if you work/ live there for a few years. Other countries ( Greece) it can be obtained with a real estate purchase of 250000 euro. But, then again, the euro isn't so great and the economy of Greece, well...

Probably better for us to take the penalty than to pay $800 monthly premium, while trying to survive in a combined $80k household.

$800 month premium is a far cry from the $2500 being described above. What drives the cost? Income only? Where can I see sample current rates?

conandrob240 said:

$800 month premium is a far cry from the $2500 being described above. What drives the cost? Income only? Where can I see sample current rates?

Don't let them see your 401k, especially after you've lost your job thanks to Trumpian economics.

conandrob240 said:

$800 month premium is a far cry from the $2500 being described above. What drives the cost? Income only? Where can I see sample current rates?

You can explore current rates at HealthCare.gov

I appreciate sarcasm, I really do but I don't understand what this means. So, are you saying it's not just income based but they also look at savings and 401k? So confused.

blitzed said:

conandrob240 said:

$800 month premium is a far cry from the $2500 being described above. What drives the cost? Income only? Where can I see sample current rates?

Don't let them see your 401k, especially after you've lost your job thanks to Trumpian economics.

thanks for the link. I didn't realize you could do all the calculations without applying first. So, it looks,like $60k is the "magic number" for me + spouse. If we made that or less, a tax credit would kick in making monthly premiums or a Bronze plan $150/mth or less.

So how do savings, 401k, house ownership play into the equation?

(And I realize since the attempt is to kill this that this whole conversation might be pointless anyway)

They do not look at assets, just income.

conandrob240 said:

$800 month premium is a far cry from the $2500 being described above. What drives the cost? Income only? Where can I see sample current rates?

If you want to see how much it will cost your family, just go on healthcare.gove on November 1. You don't have to sign up or give identifying info to see the plans and prices you are eligible for. I can tell you right now that with no subsidy it will be anywhere from about 2500/month to 4000+/month.

conandrob240 said:

thanks for the link. I didn't realize you could do all the calculations without applying first. So, it looks,like $60k is the "magic number" for me + spouse. If we made that or less, a tax credit would kick in making monthly premiums or a Bronze plan $150/mth or less.

So how do savings, 401k, house ownership play into the equation?

(And I realize since the attempt is to kill this that this whole conversation might be pointless anyway)

They do not play into the equation at all. Just MAGI. Modified Adjusted Gross Income.

Yes, it's great to see it. 

How can you make that prediction without knowing our income? At our current income (which we wouldn't have if I retire early), it'd be $900 or so for a bronze plan for 2. I also put it in for family of 4 just to see and it came out to $1500 or so. Deductibles were around $5000.

It seems income needs to be around $60k for it to be subsidized and at that income, we'd pay around $100-200 a month. 

Unless you are making $300k+, I am having a hard time understanding how it could be $2500+ unless someone's buying a very high end plan. And if your income is that high that it costs that much, wouldn't you likely have a job that had benefits?

shoshannah said:

conandrob240 said:

$800 month premium is a far cry from the $2500 being described above. What drives the cost? Income only? Where can I see sample current rates?

If you want to see how much it will cost your family, just go on healthcare.gove on November 1. You don't have to sign up or give identifying info to see the plans and prices you are eligible for. I can tell you right now that with no subsidy it will be anywhere from about 2500/month to 4000+/month.

so, based on this, early retirement could be possible as long as income stays low

kthnry said:

They do not look at assets, just income.

Do NOT borrow from your 401k to pay for rent/mortgage/bills etc. You'll end up getting screwed by the IRS if you qualify for subsidies.

They may not look at assets while applying but when you file the subsequent year it's a different story.

conandrob240 said:

Yes, it's great to see it. 

How can you make that prediction without knowing our income? At our current income (which we wouldn't have if I retire early), it'd be $900 or so for a bronze plan for 2. I also put it in for family of 4 just to see and it came out to $1500 or so. Deductibles were around $5000.

It seems income needs to be around $60k for it to be subsidized and at that income, we'd pay around $100-200 a month. 

Unless you are making $300k+, I am having a hard time understanding how it could be $2500+ unless someone's buying a very high end plan. And if your income is that high that it costs that much, wouldn't you likely have a job that had benefits?

shoshannah said:

conandrob240 said:

$800 month premium is a far cry from the $2500 being described above. What drives the cost? Income only? Where can I see sample current rates?

If you want to see how much it will cost your family, just go on healthcare.gove on November 1. You don't have to sign up or give identifying info to see the plans and prices you are eligible for. I can tell you right now that with no subsidy it will be anywhere from about 2500/month to 4000+/month.

I just did the form. Family of 4. No subsidy. No smoking or pregnancy. The range was an average of $2141 to an average of $4,448. That's my family. Then I changed the parameters to just 2 people at our ages, no subsidy. The range it gave me was $1,607 to $3,338. So, it depends on what age you put in. And your zip code. You don't live in Essex County.

we are in our mid- 40s. And have a fairly decent income. And it's nowhere near the #s you are coming up with. Doing Essex vs Union doesn't result in a substantial change nor does even changing the state ( I tried FL since we just bought a condo there, just for kicks)

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Essex county, mid-40s. As an example, putting in income of $100k-$200k and I'm getting range of $916-1,903/mth. The first Bronze plan I see has a monthly price of $789

conandrob240 said:

we are in our mid- 40s. And have a fairly decent income. And it's nowhere near the #s you are coming up with. Doing Essex vs Union doesn't result in a substantial change nor does even changing the state ( I tried FL since we just bought a condo there, just for kicks)

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Essex county, mid-40s. As an example, putting in income of $100k-$200k and I'm getting range of $916-1,903/mth. The first Bronze plan I see has a monthly price of $789

I don't really feel the need to figure out why we got different results. But I suspect it's due to age. 

well, okay then. I'll ask others. You did the math for me so I was responding to that. If you don't want to bounce it around, that's fine. 

Good info that this is based on income and age. Putting in our desired retirement age- 55, it does go up but not that dramatically. $1100-2500 range now using same income range but different age.

Try age 60, 62, 64. You'll need it until Medicare age.

The problem is, we have no idea what the future holds. If the pre-existing condition requirement is eliminated and you've ever had even the most trivial medical condition, you may be unable to buy coverage at any price, just like in the good old days before the ACA. I can't see giving up employer-provided coverage until the health care system is stabilized. 

I wish they would reduce the age for Medicare eligibility to 60, or 55, or even 50. These are the people who need good insurance and who if they lose their job have the most difficulty finding a decent new job with benefits.

I think they should let people buy in to Medicare at 60.  Maybe it won't be dirt cheap, but it will be steady, and get cheaper as people reach 65.  After the kinks are worked out they can move the buy in to 55, and then 50.

that would be a great idea.

shoshannah said:

dave said:

conandrob240 said:

serious question. What other country could one move to for retirement where health care insurance would be covered? I am okay now because we have decent coverage still though employer plans. But I refuse to let the $ I've saved be taken away from me in old age because I need long- term care. What are the options? I'd prefer warm, by the way

Hong Kong.

Tell us the health care situation there. Do you pay a premium? Do you pay for visits? Prescriptions? How does it work for noncitizens?

There is a public system (which is excellent and where everyone goes for emergencies) and a private system.  People with private insurance are encouraged to use the private system to keep public system from overcrowding.  People can also get faster treatment for non-emergency issues in the private system.  

There are no premiums in the public system.

Doctor visits for permanent residents or HK citizens are about USD $5.  When I've used the public system I've never had a long wait and 90% of the time am seen a few minutes before.  Very often prescriptions are included in the visit if they are generics, but if they are not generics add another USD $2 per perscription (and you pick up the prescription where you see the doctor, which is also quick and easy).  Hospital stays are about USD$10 a day.   However, fees are often completely waived if there's a public health threat and the government wants to remove every possible barrier to people seeking treatment (eg, new strain of influenza). 

For people who live in HK and have a HK ID card, but are not yet HK permanent residents, multiply above charges by about 10x.   For those just visiting HK and need med. services, they pay private rates, which are closer to but probably still lower than US rates (USD$100-300 for outpatient visits. USD$800 per day for hospital stays.)

I haven't read all of this, so excuse me if redundant, but Shoshanna the two in college should be able to get a catastrophic plan very cheaply through their schools.   There is also a plan in NJ for kids who are uninsured.   These are not permanent solutions but just wanted to mention, they could factor into your planning.