Accident at Jefferson and Maplewood ave archived

Bets, I have seen the same thing. Actually I will slow down when on Jefferson and some of the drivers on Maplewood take that as a sign they can go ahead.

http://www.safemotorist.com/articles/traffic_signals.aspx
I guess your comment proves you don't know anything about what a flashing yellow sign means...

Suzie2 said:

bets said:

bmac said:

More than once I've been sitting on MW Ave waiting for the traffic to pass and actually had cars stop at the yellow flashing light on Jefferson (as if it were a 4-way stop) and start waving me across. Appalling lack of driver ed.

This kind of "courtesy" is sooooo dangerous and now seems to be the norm and not the exception. People making left turns waving people at stop signs to go ahead, etc. Really unsafe.

I had a cop do that to me the other day. No matter how many times I waved to him to go since he had the right of way (and was a working cop, whom I feel is one of the few people who should be given the right of way if possible even when he doesn't have it), he wouldn't go until I did. And it was clearly confusing the other drivers at the intersection. Makes me crazy.

Drivers doing this can and do cause confusion, but a cop doing so is different. Uniformed police officers supersede traffic signals, always. It doesn't matter if he was in his vehicle and not standing in traffic.

The stop signs on Maplewood Ave at the corner of Jefferson include an additional sign that says "Cross traffic does not stop."

The cop is wrong to stop on Jefferson and wave you on.

krnl said:

The stop signs on Maplewood Ave at the corner of Jefferson include an additional sign that says "Cross traffic does not stop."

The cop is wrong to stop on Jefferson and wave you on.

Take the DMV course, in New Jersey police officers supersede traffic signals. He was in uniform in a marked car. He was not wrong.

He may have been right, but he was stupid.

We have lived on Jefferson for fifteen months and I can't count the number of close calls that I have had with the Jefferson/Maplewood Avenue intersection, and the Walton/Maplewood Avenue intersection. The only reason I haven't been involved in an accident is because I drive slowly, a fact that pisses a lot of other drivers off, but so be it. I don't know what steps can be or should be taken to improve safety at these two intersections, but I would love to see the crosswalk markings at the Walton Avenue/Jefferson intersection re-painted. The paint is badly faded, and lots of pedestrians cross at the intersection. In the morning children cross this intersection on their way to school. Sorry for the slight thread drift, but who can we call to ask that the crossroad be repainted?

@Terminator3 The flashing light at Maplewood Ave. is RED - that means Maplewood Ave's traffic must stop and proceed when the intersection is clear. The same flashing light fixture shows YELLOW at Jefferson - which means "caution" - I could post umpteen links, but why bother? In any event, there is no stop sign on Jefferson, there is a stop sign on Maplewood Ave. How you can think Jefferson must yield to Maplewood is beyond me, and I don't see any point in continuing to discuss this.

terminator3 said:

http://www.safemotorist.com/articles/traffic_signals.aspx
I guess your comment proves you don't know anything about what a flashing yellow sign means...

so someone at a stop sign has the right-of-way over someone with a yield sign? No wonder New Jersey drivers are such a disaster.

Common sense needs to prevail here.

x-posting with Cody, terminator3's notion is simply absurd and confusing and, if widely followed, will only lead to accidents.

drummerboy said:

He may have been right, but he was stupid.

Really? How so?

ace789nj said:

drummerboy said:

He may have been right, but he was stupid.

Really? How so?

New Jersey law of the road clearly states that any driver attempting to be courteous to other drivers shall immediately be labeled "stupid."

spontaneous said:

ace789nj said:

drummerboy said:

He may have been right, but he was stupid.

Really? How so?

New Jersey law of the road clearly states that any driver attempting to be courteous to other drivers shall immediately be labeled "stupid."

Seriously though, if two people are at a 4 way stop at the same time and one of them waves the other on, it should be understood then, that that driver has relinquished his right to go first. How on earth is this confusing? What if two drivers arrived at the same time, is it stupid for one to wave the other on? This of course doesn't even factor in if one of those drivers is an officer who during the course of their duties, elects to allow another driver through first, thereby directing that other driver to continue on. Again, how is this confusing...or stupid?

I think it's because it's not a 4-way stop, and the PO had right of way (no stop sign) and chose to stop to let someone at the stop sign go. WOuldn't say it's stupid, but it would be a bit unexpected for anyone travelling in the other directions.

It is a two way stop, but the officer is still well within his rights to wave someone through if safe. It might have been a number of years since I took the DMV written test, but I do clearly remember that a uniformed police officer always supersedes traffic signals. Always. What I don't remember is what months we are allowed to use studded snow tires. November to March???

Besides, there could also have been a legitimate reason for the officer's giving the other vehicle the right of way. The car could have looked hinky and maybe he wanted to get behind the vehicle (giving them the right of way being the easiest and least obvious way to do this) so he could run their plate and see what comes back.

Or maybe he was just in a good mood and knew how long it can sometimes take to safely clear that intersection and wanted to be nice.

But lets just be haters and call him stupid.

I nearly got hit crossing at that intersection some time back. How about some of those rumble strips things they put down before the tool booths? Maybe just on Maplewood ave in either direction, with flashing red lights around the STOP sign.

tom said:

x-posting with Cody, terminator3's notion is simply absurd and confusing and, if widely followed, will only lead to accidents.

It's call defensive driving...slow down at intersection proceed with caution stop if necessary for pedestrian and cars....most accidents are from cars plowing through the intersection from cars on Jefferson as cars sometimes blow the stop sign from Maplewood...this prevents accidents...all your cruddy attitudes about the need to go through this intersection at all costs leads to more accidents

Police officers control traffic for any number of reasons.

terminator3 said:

tom said:

x-posting with Cody, terminator3's notion is simply absurd and confusing and, if widely followed, will only lead to accidents.

It's call defensive driving...slow down at intersection proceed with caution stop if necessary for pedestrian and cars....most accidents are from cars plowing through the intersection from cars on Jefferson as cars sometimes blow the stop sign from Maplewood...this prevents accidents...all your cruddy attitudes about the need to go through this intersection at all costs leads to more accidents

yes, but that isn't what you originally said. In particular "if necessary." You always stop if it's necessary!

pippi said:

Police officers control traffic for any number of reasons.

Yes. On many occasion I have found myself at an intersection where I've needed to stay put. For example, there may be another car at the same intersection that I need to check out, the car has three ways it could go, I need to let that car go before I can proceed. Another possibilty, which has happened to me, was where I saw two guys walkin down a street, one stood by a driveway looking around while the other walked into a backyard, this happened about 400 ft away from me, on the other side of an intersection, which was a four way stop. On that day, I waved a bunch of cars on as I watched. If I had turned I would've lost sight, if I had continued, I would have passed them...as well as alerted them. If I had not stayed put, I would've missed a bike theft and subsequent arrest. How stupid of me.

Sorry for the thread drift. Hope the person(s) injured are ok.

Wow....any news on the pedestrian that was struck?

Whenever a driver, whether they be a civilian or a cop in a police car, breaks the rules of the road in order to be "courteous", they are creating a dangerous situation, because they are creating confusion in people that are sitting inside of thousands of pounds of hurtling steel. Creating such a dangerous situation is a stupid thing to do.

I wasn't aware that we had confirmed the PO was simply being courteous as the primary reason for waving the other driver on.

If people are so confused by being given the right of way, then they need to hand their keys over and stop driving. I've been in traffic situations where I did not have the right of way but someone waved me on, letting me know they were giving it to me. I didn't sit there confused about what to do. I quickly check to see that no one else is barreling down the road, then go and wave "thanks" to the other driver.

Well, we don't know, but it seems to me that if a cop needed to direct traffic for some reason, he should get out of his car, not do it from within. That's confusing too.

Regardless, some people are giving him a pass even for doing it for courteousness's sake, and like I said - stupid. Whenever you stop when you're not supposed to, you're creating a hazardous situation. You should get a ticket for that, not applause.

spontaneous said:

If people are so confused by being given the right of way, then they need to hand their keys over and stop driving. I've been in traffic situations where I did not have the right of way but someone waved me on, letting me know they were giving it to me. I didn't sit there confused about what to do. I quickly check to see that no one else is barreling down the road, then go and wave "thanks" to the other driver.

It's not a question of "being given the right of way". It's a question of being at an intersection where someone decided to stop at a yellow light to let the guy stopped at the red go through. That's confusing and dumb and it's stuff like that that causes accidents. Lights and signs are there for a reason. If all of a sudden people just decided to drive by being "courteous" and ignoring the signage we'd all be dead pretty quickly.

Your logic implies that you are not capable of alert driving, that you can't, or shouldn't be required to, think on your feet, react and drive accordingly. You must rear end a boatload of people, or animals...or anything else that doesn't conform to your smooth driving mantra. Quite frankly, if you are so easily confused that you would crash because a person at an intersection waves you on in a situation where you would otherwise assume they wouldn't...well, you probably shouldn't be driving.

What was that ole system for safe driving? SIPDE

Scan
Identify
Predict
Decide
Execute

(Let's see that in action)

Scan the road(s) as you arrive at intersection
Identify vehicles, people, objects, etc
Predict the behavior of said vehicles, people, objects, etc
oh wait, vehicle X isn't proceeding through, in fact, they're waving me on
Predict (again) the behavior (only this time, we know, with a certain degree of certainty that vehicle X will not move)
Decide it is ok to move through the intersection, (while still cognizant of all other identified and predicted things and behaviors)
Execute said decision by pressing gas pedal, continuing on to whole foods without incident.

Now, if a driver goes into panic mode because they couldn't process any of that...well, see my line above about not driving. My guess is those folks are more apt to cause a crash no matter what is going on.

ace789nj said:

My guess is those folks are more apt to cause a crash no matter what is going on.

Exactly! We already know the road is full of jackasses. Why make the roads deliberately more dangerous for them and us?

This is basic stuff. The vast majority of car on car accidents are caused by two things. Stopping when you're not supposed to and crossing in front of someone else. That's pretty much it. In my book, whenever you do one of those things unnecessarily, you are creating a hazard and being a bad driver. Courtesy be damned. Being safe is being courteous.

Take down all signs and lights. Let no one assume anything. The assumption of safety because of the color of a light or the presence of a sign is what gets people to stop paying attention to their surroundings.

As I look down on the Tyrrhenian sea and prepare for another day of driving on Sicily.
Two things cross my mind:
Why do I look at this site
Driving in NJ is nothing compared to Driving any where else but here...They need 4 way stops at all intersections in NJ