Accident at Jefferson and Maplewood ave archived

In my opinion, the only solution is:

tjohn:
"Zero tolerance law enforcement can help educate drivers. We have the technical means to do this."

We've lived near that intersection for 13 years, so I'm well aware of how bad it is. I don't understand why we can't put a couple of speed bumps on the downhill side of Jefferson. It won't eliminate all accidents, but at least the vehicles will be traveling slower.

ml1 said:

We've lived near that intersection for 13 years, so I'm well aware of how bad it is. I don't understand why we can't put a couple of speed bumps on the downhill side of Jefferson. It won't eliminate all accidents, but at least the vehicles will be traveling slower.

Can't do it on a road that has more than x number of cars per day... I don't remember the number but I know that Jefferson exceeds it.

As far as people saying that a light could not be installed because there is not enough stopping distance after the hill, I don't believe it. I've seen it said here again and again, but I still think it's bogus. I am not advocating for a light there btw, just speculating.

More than once I've been sitting on MW Ave waiting for the traffic to pass and actually had cars stop at the yellow flashing light on Jefferson (as if it were a 4-way stop) and start waving me across. Appalling lack of driver ed.

Needs a traffic light.

bmac said:

More than once I've been sitting on MW Ave waiting for the traffic to pass and actually had cars stop at the yellow flashing light on Jefferson (as if it were a 4-way stop) and start waving me across. Appalling lack of driver ed.

^ This! Whether through politeness or ignorance, doing this is dangerous. When driving there is an expectation that others are going to be following the traffic signals properly. We should certainly be prepared to react to those who do not properly follow the signals but it can create dangerous situations.

Isn't there (or wasn't there) a sign at the crest of the hill where Wyoming goes over the tracks (by the CVS/Trader Joe's location) that would light up in conjunction with the traffic light at Glen? I thought it would say something like "Red light ahead" to warn drivers that they were going to have to stop very shortly. Maybe something like that could resolve the "cars are traveling too fast to stop for the cars at the red light at the bottom of the hill" problem.

cody said:

Isn't there (or wasn't there) a sign at the crest of the hill where Wyoming goes over the tracks (by the CVS/Trader Joe's location) that would light up in conjunction with the traffic light at Glen? I thought it would say something like "Red light ahead" to warn drivers that they were going to have to stop very shortly. Maybe something like that could resolve the "cars are traveling too fast to stop for the cars at the red light at the bottom of the hill" problem.

And connected to this why is the light on Glen an option but not on Jefferson? Exact same scenario.

Totally.

I agree. I've never understood why they can have a light at Wyoming and Glen but not at Jefferson and Maplewood. It's a similar situation and they've had the light at Glen and Wyoming for as long as I can remember.

Wyoming and Glen - another intersection in dire need of zero tolerance enforcement. A lot of cars make an illegal left turn on to Glen Ave. after crossing the RR bridge.

With zero tolerance enforcement, I think we would be pleasantly surprised at how quickly drivers grow brain matter.

it is really all about bad driving and driver ignorance.... if the crossing guard who wears a BRIGHT ORANGE jacket in the middle of the day with a STOP sign gets routinely ignored and almost hit on a daily business at that intersection.... then it is much more than about stops signs or signals

I could definitely see how a light could cause more accidents coming over the hill, without some advance warning that it's coming. I say this because I was rear-ended in a similar traffic set-up in Verona last year... there is a curvy hill and you can't see the traffic light around the crest. I believe that road is actually 35mph here, so you're driving along at a decent speed and can't see that cars are stopped ahead. In this case, I believe it was backed up several cars so I came right over the hill and then saw brake lights. I had to slam on my brakes, but the pickup truck behind me was probably speeding to begin with and slammed hard into me. (allegedly his brakes gave out - scary!!)

So, that said, if there is a light I would strongly support a "traffic light ahead" or "traffic may be stopped" sign. People in town have been driving that street for years, so some amount of education will necessarily be required anyway.

And zero tolerance enforcement of the 25 mph speed limit on Jefferson wouldn't work because???

Oh, that's right. Collectively, we would rather bear the body count than be expected to follow traffic laws.

tjohn said:

And zero tolerance enforcement of the 25 mph speed limit on Jefferson wouldn't work because???

Oh, that's right. Collectively, we would rather bear the body count than be expected to follow traffic laws.

Yes, exactly - thank you TJohn for your practical and simple solution. Yes it will work - money and penalties will turn things around in days.

bmac said:

More than once I've been sitting on MW Ave waiting for the traffic to pass and actually had cars stop at the yellow flashing light on Jefferson (as if it were a 4-way stop) and start waving me across. Appalling lack of driver ed.

This kind of "courtesy" is sooooo dangerous and now seems to be the norm and not the exception. People making left turns waving people at stop signs to go ahead, etc. Really unsafe.

A friend who is a cop once said that many of the traffic accidents he documented were the result of people breaking the rules of the road to wave someone ahead. I've always wondered what the statistics are.

It's interesting some of the worst drivers keep chiming in on this thread. One of the posters had to apologize in exchange for charges dropped 3-4 years back to the municipal court for criminally bad driving I don't really have a beef with you, you know who you are. The other person had his/her keys taken away outside of HP by the MPD and had to walk home bc he was too drunk to drive.

So yeah, 100% enforcement is a start, bc plenty of adults drive poorly enough around here and cause accidents.

TarheelsInNj said:

...So, that said, if there is a light I would strongly support a "traffic light ahead" or "traffic may be stopped" sign...

Can someone go look. I am pretty sure that the Twp. did install signs and flashing lights at the crest of the downhill spot on Jefferson. I have not look in a while. I would be suprised if it were removed as it took forever to get it installed.

And, an officer or two for 4 hours a day, rotate the hours each day and 'tjohn' will have it fixed.

jgberkeley said:

TarheelsInNj said:

...So, that said, if there is a light I would strongly support a "traffic light ahead" or "traffic may be stopped" sign...

Can someone go look. I am pretty sure that the Twp. did install signs and flashing lights at the crest of the downhill spot on Jefferson. I have not look in a while. I would be suprised if it were removed as it took forever to get it installed.

And, an officer or two for 4 hours a day, rotate the hours each day and 'tjohn' will have it fixed.

But at the moment, the Jefferson traffic shouldn't be stopped, right? What does the sign say? Either way it would need to be updated if a red light were to be installed.

Any news on the victim?

bets said:

bmac said:

More than once I've been sitting on MW Ave waiting for the traffic to pass and actually had cars stop at the yellow flashing light on Jefferson (as if it were a 4-way stop) and start waving me across. Appalling lack of driver ed.

This kind of "courtesy" is sooooo dangerous and now seems to be the norm and not the exception. People making left turns waving people at stop signs to go ahead, etc. Really unsafe.

I had a cop do that to me the other day. No matter how many times I waved to him to go since he had the right of way (and was a working cop, whom I feel is one of the few people who should be given the right of way if possible even when he doesn't have it), he wouldn't go until I did. And it was clearly confusing the other drivers at the intersection. Makes me crazy.

Actually the people on Jefferson have a yield sign....so they SHOULD yield to pedestrians and cars...unfortunately even on this thread nobody seems to understand

Why would a car with a stop sign -- the car on Maplewood -- have the right of way over a car with a yield sign -- the car on Jefferson?

There is no yield sign on Jefferson at the intersection of Maplewood Ave/Jefferson.

There's a yield on Maplewood Ave at Walton, but that's another story.

cody said:

. . .
There's a yield on Maplewood Ave at Walton, but that's another story.

Does anyone know why that isn't a stop sign? As a pedestrian I am constantly endangered by idiots who roll right through.

EB - I think at a "T" intersection there is a yield not a stop ... like at Durand and Maplewood Ave

Don't get me started on Durand/Maplewood, where drivers rarely stop for pedestrians going to/from the train. Why can't we have a stop sign there?

One problem at Walton/Maplewood is that if you are going towards South Orange, you have to go past the yield sign to be able to see past the fence and plantings of the house on that triangular lot that juts into the intersection - it is very pretty, but very hard to see around!

cody said:

There is no yield sign on Jefferson at the intersection of Maplewood Ave/Jefferson.

There's a yield on Maplewood Ave at Walton, but that's another story.

There is a big Flashing Yellow Light at the Intersection on Jefferson.... this means YIELD!!! Obviously part of the problem is that people don't know the rules of the road or what lights mean

@terminator3
You specifically said "sign" - I believe the light flashes RED for the traffic on Maplewood, yellow for Jefferson. Yellow means "caution", not "yield". Flashing red lights and big red signs that say "STOP" mean stop.

What was that about rules of the road?