have any states enacted this yet? This would be a complete game changer in so many ways.
Yes. Several states have enacted this. I heard a very educational podcast about this (as well as political gerrymandering) many months ago on On the Media. It has received support in "red" as well as "blue" states. They are not yet at the key number yet. It will take a while. According to Wikipedia: "As of September 2017, it has been adopted by ten states and the District of Columbia. Together, they have 165 electoral votes, which is 30.7% of the total Electoral College and 61.1% of the votes needed to give the compact legal force."
thanks Wendy. I took a look and see that the 165 already enacted are the big blue states (CA, NY, NJ, IL, MA), and that states with another 97 electoral votes have legislation pending for this. That's really encouraging.
On the other hand, let's give some thought to a scenario in which some despicable miscreant wins the popular vote whilst we few, we merry few, in Mass., Cn., NY, NJ, and Cal all select the enlightened, forward thinking candidate.
What are the merry few going to think of themselves for agreeing to put the miscreant in the Oval Office?
Just some food for thought.
Beyond the above, it should also be considered that we are a nation of fifty United States. Fifty sovereigns agreeing to act in concert for our common benefit. That's the deal the first thirteen States made when we adopted Our Constitution; and the deal, to which each of the subsequently admitted States, agreed upon its admission.
The smart dead guys cobbled together a plan that met with each of the States' approval; from 1789 through to today. That plan included equal representation in the Senate for each of the several States (a guarantee that they had the foresight to make permanent).
The plan also provided for the Electoral College, which, based upon the same rationale persuading the sovereign States to join the Union, allocated the States' participation based upon the number of a State's Congressmen. A provision which, in my opinion, should have been made as permanent as a State's equal representation in the Senate, because it recognizes that each State in the union should be treated as the sovereign they each are.
But hey, that's one man's thoughts on the matter.
TomR
you think the EC is a good idea?
Tom_R said:
On the other hand, let's give some thought to a scenario in which some despicable miscreant wins the popular vote whilst we few, we merry few, in Mass., Cn., NY, NJ, and Cal all select the enlightened, forward thinking candidate.
What are the merry few going to think of themselves for agreeing to put the miscreant in the Oval Office?
Just some food for thought.
Beyond the above, it should also be considered that we are a nation of fifty United States. Fifty sovereigns agreeing to act in concert for our common benefit. That's the deal the first thirteen States made when we adopted Our Constitution; and the deal, to which each of the subsequently admitted States, agreed upon its admission.
The smart dead guys cobbled together a plan that met with each of the States' approval; from 1789 through to today. That plan included equal representation in the Senate for each of the several States (a guarantee that they had the foresight to make permanent).
The plan also provided for the Electoral College, which, based upon the same rationale persuading the sovereign States to join the Union, allocated the States' participation based upon the number of a State's Congressmen. A provision which, in my opinion, should have been made as permanent as a State's equal representation in the Senate, because it recognizes that each State in the union should be treated as the sovereign they each are.
But hey, that's one man's thoughts on the matter.
TomR
can this change to a proportional elector vote possibly be fair until all 50 states agree to it?
Tom_R said:
....
The smart dead guys cobbled together a plan that met with each of the States' approval; from 1789 through to today. That plan included equal representation in the Senate for each of the several States (a guarantee that they had the foresight to make permanent).
....
TomR
The plan for the E.C. included thinking that the college would be a defense against the rabble voting to elect a scoundrel or nitwit (Twit for you Monty Python fans) to the office.
The plan obviously failed - TWICE: Bush II and the Gropenfuhrer.
Time to change it.
The EC was created to protect against the illiterate populace as a safety for the Elector to vote against what his (there was no her then of course) state decided to do. Regardless of the pros and cons of that decision back then that was memorialized in the Constitution, it no longer applies and our country wants the Presidential elections to be determined by popular vote. This is not a red/blue matter for the most part. I believe even Arizona is on board. This compact is a work around the EC by mandating those Electors in the Compact to basically become faithless Electors if the popular vote nationwide mandates that. That's why you need to reach that number of states agreeing before the compact would kick in. I don't expect it soon but it could happen in about 10 years. Again, I suggest you all educate yourselves further. Here's a start: http://www.wnyc.org/story/reimagining-redblue-map/
I much prefer an Amendment to, rather than a work-around the Constitution.
If the elimination of the E.C. is the will of the people, then change the Constitution to reflect that.
alias said:
I much prefer an Amendment to, rather than a work-around the Constitution.
If the elimination of the E.C. is the will of the people, then change the Constitution to reflect that.
I suggest you do a bit more research to back up your "preference" which is simplistic and wrong in my opinion.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Tom_R said:
....
The smart dead guys cobbled together a plan that met with each of the States' approval; from 1789 through to today. That plan included equal representation in the Senate for each of the several States (a guarantee that they had the foresight to make permanent).
....
TomR
The plan for the E.C. included thinking that the college would be a defense against the rabble voting to elect a scoundrel or nitwit (Twit for you Monty Python fans) to the office.
The plan obviously failed - TWICE: Bush II and the Gropenfuhrer.
Time to change it.
Really?
The founders envisioned an electoral college composed of citizens of standing who have integrity and a care for their new republic. Also, a compromise for balancing the representation of slave vs. non-slave states.
Currently the electoral college is composed of appointed political hacks. A good idea gone down the drain.
alias said:
I much prefer an Amendment to, rather than a work-around the Constitution.
If the elimination of the E.C. is the will of the people, then change the Constitution to reflect that.
An amendment would require the approval of 2/3rds of the House or 3/4 of the states. Both are controlled by right wing Republicans. They believe they are the beneficiaries of the current system so they have little interest in changing things.
BG9 said:
....
Currently the electoral college is composed of appointed political hacks. A good idea gone down the drain.
Not so. They are elected by the citizens of the states.
Another disgrace is the Democratic nominating process which incorporates Super Delegates that cater to the "establishment" Democrats.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
An amendment would require the approval of 2/3rds of the House or 3/4 of the states. Both are controlled by right wing Republicans. They believe they are the beneficiaries of the current system so they have little interest in changing things.
Actually 2/3 of Congress AND 3/4 of the States.
BG9 said:
....
Currently the electoral college is composed of appointed political hacks. A good idea gone down the drain.
Not so. They are elected by the citizens of the states.
Another disgrace is the Democratic nominating process which incorporates Super Delegates that cater to the "establishment" Democrats.
State legislatures are responsible for nominating electors. The process can actually differ from state to state. In general, though, the two most common ways are:
wendy said:
The EC was created to protect against the illiterate populace as a safety for the Elector to vote against what his (there was no her then of course) state decided to do. Regardless of the pros and cons of that decision back then that was memorialized in the Constitution, it no longer applies and our country wants the Presidential elections to be determined by popular vote. This is not a red/blue matter for the most part. I believe even Arizona is on board. This compact is a work around the EC by mandating those Electors in the Compact to basically become faithless Electors if the popular vote nationwide mandates that. That's why you need to reach that number of states agreeing before the compact would kick in. I don't expect it soon but it could happen in about 10 years. Again, I suggest you all educate yourselves further. Here's a start: http://www.wnyc.org/story/reimagining-redblue-map/
Incorrect. Please study it out.
Oh my goodness Arizona is not one of the states. Here is some information for all to look at. I didn't memorize it though. Mea culpa.
See also: Electoral College (United States) § Contemporary issues
"Because of the way states have historically chosen to apportion their electoral votes, presidential candidates have lost the popular vote nationally but still won the presidency.[5] Public opinion surveys suggest that a majority of Americans support the idea of a popular vote for President. A 2007 poll found that 72% favored replacing the Electoral College with a direct election, including 78% of Democrats, 60% of Republicans, and 73% of independent voters.[6] Gallup polls dating back to 1944 have shown a consistent majority of the public supporting a direct vote; however, support decreased significantly in their 2016 poll, conducted a few weeks after the 2016 election, when they found support for the popular vote at 49%, an all-time low, with 47% wanting to keep the Electoral College.[7][8] Reasons behind the compact include:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
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NYT: The Electoral College has been the subject of more amendment efforts than any other part of the Constitution. But amending the Constitution is a heavy lift. A quicker and more realistic fix is the National Popular Vote interstate compact, under which states agree to award all of their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote. The agreement kicks in as soon as states representing a total of 270 electoral votes sign on, ensuring that the popular vote will always pick the president.