99 Cent and up Store to replace Family Buffett
Brooklyn population density is roughly 36,000/sq mi.
South Orange is about 6000.
mrincredible said:
Brooklyn population density is roughly 36,000/sq mi.
South Orange is about 6000.
I had wanted to find that statistic or do the math myself. Thanks for saving me the trouble!
I know that SO will never become Brooklyn--which is a good thing, as over-density is one of the reasons we left Brooklyn--but, with all of the empty storefronts in SO, I would hope that some more interesting local businesses like Kitchen A La Mode could come in. Is getting a dollar store the best the town can do in the old Family Buffet space? (I'm just asking--its possible that is the case, and it is certainly better than an empty building.)
SouthernBaron said:
mrincredible said:
Brooklyn population density is roughly 36,000/sq mi.
South Orange is about 6000.
I had wanted to find that statistic or do the math myself. Thanks for saving me the trouble!
The town doesn't pick and choose businesses for vacant stores outside of basic zoning. People who need space approach landlords about renting it.
Nothing like a 99 cent store to pile up the posts.
But Brooklyn? The borough is filled with crappy looking bodegas and other not very attractive storefronts. A trip to the bowels of Brooklyn is like retracing the trip through the levels of hell in the inferno.
Sorry looked to see if this had been corrected. That building does not have any parking. Only what is available on street or in town lots. More to the Point what ever goes in there, the Landlord should fix up the building. a coat of beige paint just does not cut it. The fake Tudor look, looks fake and cheep.
Whenever I'm tempted to suggest what we "should" have in town, I ask myself this question: Would I put my own hard-earned savings into the concept?
For many categories here, the real competition is Amazon.com. For others, it is ShopRite. For others, the Short Hills Mall. The number of boutiques that can survive seems to be limited, and many of the ones that have done decently in South Orange have eventually moved to pricier and more heavily-trafficked strips elsewhere (mainly Millburn and Maplewood). Kudos to KALM and Ashley for managing to make it work where so many others have failed.
I can't join the reflexive angst about dollar stores, as the one previously on Valley saved me more than a few last-minute runs to Route 10 or elsewhere for urgently needed school project materials!
ramzzoinksus said:
Nothing like a 99 cent store to pile up the posts.
But Brooklyn? The borough is filled with crappy looking bodegas and other not very attractive storefronts. A trip to the bowels of Brooklyn is like retracing the trip through the levels of hell in the inferno.
This made me laugh, because it's true. There are hip areas of Brooklyn, but a lot of Brooklyn is just Bodega City. Same as the rest of the city. I work in the Kingsbridge section of the Bronx, and things are just beginning to look up here. My daughter lived in Bushwick until this month. Not pretty. Now she lives in Bedford Stuyvesant, a place which is showing a lot of hope. It's a move up for her, and I'm happy.
susan1014 is right. It's hard to have a retail business and even harder in the suburbs. People have cars to shop elsewhere, and they have computers to shop elseelsewhere, to coin a word.
@susan1014 I totally agree!! I'm actually kinda psyched that a 99 cent store is coming back to town, as that's a great place to get wrapping paper and paper plates and random things that really don't need to cost as much as they do at Target.
I think the biggest question is where would you actually spend money on a regular basis? A bookstore is a great concept - but how often do you really, truly buy books? I buy a few a year, tops; the rest I read from the library or buy online. I don't buy gifts for people that often, other than toys for kids' birthdays and so Sparkhouse is perfect for my needs. We're a family with young kids, and we just don't generically "shop" that often.
A family restaurant was mentioned above. I'm curious about what type of food this would be? We've got the diner in town, and also Ricalton's which I was pleased to discover recently is truly family-friendly. I'm asking with genuine curiosity, btw, not snark - what niche is missing?
What I have said repeatedly that I'd love to see is a craft store. I HATE schlepping to Michael's on Rt. 10 for random craft and art supplies, but it's really the only place around that stocks both art and baking supplies. I think something like that could potentially do well here, especially with as many families and teachers as we have in the area. So that's one type of retail I can think of where I would actually spend my own money on a regular basis.
Also, just as an aside, I know there are a lot of "hair and nail salon" jokes, but do we actually have that many in South Orange? I feel like Maplewood has more, yet people often comment that our downtown mix is not as interesting. Is that actually true?
You guys are still misunderstanding what this place will be. It is too small to be the type of dollar store you are thinking of. It will be closer to a bodega.
At that location I don't mind a small 99 cent store. Agreed those stores often have useful items - but just hope they keep the store neat and I do wish they would change the outside of the building.
SO just lost Kimaya Kama to Maplewood. The owner tried to find a place in SO, but could not find the space she needed for the price she could afford. Unfortunately her store was down at the end of the Avenue where foot traffic drops off, and the buildings are very unattractive. I also heard that Sparkhouse was unhappy with the space they left. What can a small business owner do if the landlord doesn't take care of the space?
I will be curious to see how well the new businesses at the Gateway do.
I just walked past this space. It's the tiny front portion of the building facing irvington ave & the misspelled sign says "convenence store". It'a not a dollar store, more like a bodega that will probably rely somewhat on foot traffic (not sure the lack of other than on street parking would be an issue)
Yet another hole in the wall convenience store, a few steps from both 7-11 and the existing news stand?
Sounds like a family member trying to use the space while waiting for a deal to me.
Bee said:
I just walked past this space. It's the tiny front portion of the building facing irvington ave & the misspelled sign says "convenence store". It'a not a dollar store, more like a bodega that will probably rely somewhat on foot traffic (not sure the lack of other than on street parking would be an issue)
It sounds like I will get my beloved Brooklyn-style bodega after all 
I get what relx was asking, and it's not the first time it's been asked. There does seem to be a disconnect between the S.O. population and the offerings, look and vibe of many of the S.O. Avenue businesses.
On the flip side, seems to me when a "cool" business does show up in our towns - Abril Cocina is an example - the reaction seems to be "um, ok." That place looks awesome to me - they did a nice renovation, have an innovative menu, had great website and social media up from day one. Of the handful of the posts here, many are "meh, they don't have this, they don't have that" or "wah, service was slow." Seemed to be similar when The Laurel showed up.
Not sure what my point is. Carry on.
Thank you. It's walkable from South Orange, so whatvs. You got me on a technicality.
sac said:
In Annemarie's defense, although that shopping center on Irvington Ave may be in Newark (I'm not sure), I WOULD consider it to be in our community. I had not realized that it has a dollar store though.
jimmurphy said:
SouthernBaron said:
It's still a question of density: can each town support this same array?
This ^
Welcome to the (semi)-suburbs. The fact that we have all of these a close drive away and some of them within walking distance is an excellent tradeoff (to most of us) that allows a lower level of density.
Really the only thing that I can see as obviously missing is a casual live music venue, but I guess some would argue that Hat City Kitchen over in Orange fills that niche. A place like this over at the old Family Buffet space, with a couple of pool tables and of course an elusive liquor license would do well, I'd think.
(Edited to add casual)
Stay tuned... you might get your wish. (Though not in SO.)
The disconnect was what I was asking about initially. The dollar store, of whatever it is, is a good example: does it really fill a need in the community, or did someone just decide to open a dollar store because they felt like it, without taking into consideration what kind of clientele they would be serving.
Sorry to reference Brooklyn again, but I lived in the same neighborhood--Fort Greene/Clinton Hill--for 15 years, and I watched the neighborhood change dramatically over that time. While some of the changes were not good--sky high rents and home prices being number one on that list--the new businesses that opened in the neighborhood more or less reflected the changing populace. The supermarket a block from my apartment, for example, went from being a terrible, low-rent place to carrying many higher end products. We did lose some cool mom and pop style places to expensive restaurants and the like, but you had the feeling that what was opening matched what the people moving into the neighborhood wanted. The businesses that didn't reflect the community aesthetic usually died a quick death.
From what I have been reading about here, it seems that many businesses that open in SO seem to open in a vacuum, disconnected from the kind of people who live here. A drug store, a dollar store, these types of places can open anywhere, and don't reflect any kind of "South Orange" character, whatever that may be.
apple44 said:
I get what relx was asking, and it's not the first time it's been asked. There does seem to be a disconnect between the S.O. population and the offerings, look and vibe of many of the S.O. Avenue businesses.
On the flip side, seems to me when a "cool" business does show up in our towns - Abril Cocina is an example - the reaction seems to be "um, ok." That place looks awesome to me - they did a nice renovation, have an innovative menu, had great website and social media up from day one. Of the handful of the posts here, many are "meh, they don't have this, they don't have that" or "wah, service was slow." Seemed to be similar when The Laurel showed up.
Not sure what my point is. Carry on.
I guess "character" is the issue- what actually is it currently and, if that's not something alluring, what should or could it be? And how does the SOVCA go about attracting businesses to fit it?
Maybe the reality is that everyone who moves here wants "Brooklyn hipness", but actually has moved on to a place in life where they don't want to use it as often...loving the idea of cool boutiques, but then heading out to Costco for bulk TP, and loving the idea of trendy restaurants and nightspots, but staying home with the kids.
Our hearts are in the right places, but our disposable time and money may just not be there to support those desires.
Or the reality is that these stores do okay, but their patrons are not part of the mol community. Maybe the stores are filling a need.
I do think that the cost of raising kids and paying taxes eats up a lot of discretionary income. I notice that many of the restaurants are very slow during the week. Most people here are probably parents, and home taking care of homework and getting their kids ready for bed. Generally in the city there are many singles and DINKS who have lots of money to burn.
I think Fishy is admirable, but I suspect not many people have the passion and capital to do the small kind of business he does. There is limited shopping in SO. many of the businesses that open up are not particularly attractive to me. Those that are, I see struggle. I try to shop regularly at Ashley's. I try to frequent the restaurants. But I know I am not enough to keep those struggling in business.
I think susan1014 got it right about people wanting hipness nearby but not actually patronizing those businesses. There's endless complaining on MOL about the lack of art, indie, and foreign film in the area. The Maplewood theater actually has great programming, but I can't count how many times I've been the only customer in the room.
"I do think that the cost of raising kids and paying taxes eats up a lot of discretionary income. I notice that many of the restaurants are very slow during the week. Most people here are probably parents, and home taking care of homework and getting their kids ready for bed. Generally in the city there are many singles and DINKS who have lots of money to burn."
We have a friend from California who is visiting us. Mrs. C and she had dinner this evening at Boccone South, our go-to restaurant. They were the only customers in the restaurant.
btw - A shout-out to Boccone South. Our friend didn't care for what see ordered, and they brought her something else which she loved. Plus, free dessert and 15% of the bill. Now, that's going all out. Thank you, Boccone South. You're our favorite.
lhmirman said:
@relax - I agree with you 100%. My family and I just moved here from NYC and I want to be able to walk into South Orange and grab a cup a non Starbucks coffee and walk through town and shop. I went into the toy store on Sunday and loved it and I will venture to Kitchen a la mode next. But whats after that? I love Ashley's marketplace and go there twice a week for my produce. I am trying to embrace and support South Orange but it does need a bit of a pick me up. Just like we will to go MIllburn and Montclair and West Orange for good restaurants etc, those towns should want to come to South Orannge for our restaurants. Think about all the families that go to the Turtle Back Zoo. I mean there are in area already. So why not a good family style restaurant? How many hair and nail places does one street need? Again, I'm a month new to the area and on the weekends and my days off you will see me strolling my kids everywhere - I just wish there was more to do/stop during my strolls.
We live in Maplewood, but eat in South Orange fairly often. We were at Ricalton's not long ago and we go to Stony's and we used to patronize BPS VERY often (sob!) Also Bunny's, Tito's Burritos (I know, not cool/hip) and I'm probably forgetting some. There is a Village Trattoria in South Orange, but we go to the one in Maplewood since we can walk to it, but you SO folks can walk there, right? (I assume that it is the same food as in Maplewood???)
That is exactly how I feel. One of the reasons we choose SO--other than the fact the house we liked was in the town!--was that we could walk to downtown. I just wish there were a few more/better shopping options. I am happy about Ashley's. I understand that moving to the burbs entails more driving than living in the city, I just don't want to have to drive everywhere, and wish there were some more local options.