99 Cent and up Store to replace Family Buffett
@TarheelsInNj
I'm not trying to come across as critical of the town, sorry if it sounds that way. As I said, I am very new here, and my experience is limited. I moved here, and did like the area on my frequent visits before buying a house. (And I am not a big fan of Brooklyn, cool restaurants notwithstanding). It's just that the dollar store--which will be just a few blocks from my house--got me thinking about the kind of businesses that have been opening up in over the past few months. I have followed many of the discussions here online, and there seems to be some dissatisfaction about some of the new businesses, not necessarily who owns them, but that are all variations of the same 3-4 kinds of stores.
TarheelsInNj said:
I'm very proud of our town and its offerings. I shop at "hip cool" places approximately once a year, for Christmas gifts. But I can get a bagel, go out to dinner, do yoga, grab a cool kitchen supply, buy an awesome kids' birthday gift and more without setting foot in a chain. I can also stop at the post office, the library and the dry cleaners without having to re-park my car. South Orange rocks!
Same here. And I'd add Ashley, which may have overpriced Cheerios but is good for daily produce and also has what I would consider to be hip and cool fare. And the farmer's market starts up again soon, as far as I know.
I like the idea of more funky shops in theory, but I'm not sure they would be sustainable. Not everybody in South Orange has the disposable income to support such places on a daily basis. Maplewood Village is sui generis because of the geography and the street layout. South Orange is centered on the intersection of two major thoroughfares. It's bound to have a different feel.
In Annemarie's defense, although that shopping center on Irvington Ave may be in Newark (I'm not sure), I WOULD consider it to be in our community. I had not realized that it has a dollar store though.
People speak with great nostalgia about the old Five and Dime in Maplewood, which was very much the dollar store of its day. They sold black plastic spider rings (and not just before Halloween) and no one complained.
Where were the 'Village Keepers' when we needed them to save the Five and Dime?
@relx I'm sorry if I misread you. I just took issue with the use of the term "quality" when referring to our local businesses. We have top-notch, well-run local businesses here with owners who take real pride in being part of this community, and contribute so much to the quality of life here.
I meant quality as in the type of businesses, not how well they are run.
Hip and cool, especially for mom and pops, are hard to achieve because the rent is very high. For those have done it successfully, Kitchen a la Mode, Kimaya Kama (moving) as an example, maybe can chime in and share what it takes to continue to achieve this type of customer success.
I also wonder how many of the new people moving to South Orange are aware of what is available in town. I don't know if there is still any kind of program to welcome new residents. We moved from Maplewood to South Orange a year and a half ago and there was nothing. If I was brand new to the area I would not know about things like Sparkhouse kids and the variety of restaurants. how many new residents from Brooklyn would go looking for a local toy store for instance, versus ust ordering stuff on Amazon?
I think local businesses could use a hand promoting themselves since we get so many new residents from other areas. I do not know what's group this falls on. But when you have people who want to set up new businesses who are dealing with high rents, bad landlords in some cases, and competition from everywhere including the Internet, they need all the hands they can get.
Just want to be clear, when I refer to "hip and cool" I am not talking about high-end stores. I am talking about businesses that would serve a need in the community that are not the usual dollar/drug/liquor store (not that there is anything wrong with them.) Just to throw out a few examples: a bike shop, a children's hair cutters, a true locovore restaurant, a bookstore, a better supermarket than Pathmark. None of this would be high-priced, and they would all seem to be good fits for the community. (Apologies if some of these exist here already--as I said, I am new to SO.)
There's a great small bookstore in Maplewood, awesome bike shop in Millburn, and grocery store right on South Orange have in SO. You just need to explore the area more. Trader Joe's is around the corner in Millburn, as is Whole Paycheck.
I know about most of these already. But here's the thing--you have to drive to pretty much all of these. They are not in the town.
krnl said:
There's a great small bookstore in Maplewood, awesome bike shop in Millburn, and grocery store right on South Orange have in SO. You just need to explore the area more. Trader Joe's is around the corner in Millburn, as is Whole Paycheck.
Yeah, you'll find that most people in SO and MW frequent businesses in each. The great conscious uncoupling of 1922 still left the two on largely friendly terms, and almost nobody frowns on a little cross-border raid. And Millburn is still pretty close. For better or worse, the short distance among all these just means that people here will think in a suburban fashion--but maybe in the best possible way. Driving to Millburn is a far cry from 20 miles down the Parkway. And downtown SO is still pretty walkable for everything that's here.
Words (the bookstore in MW) is probably all the area can handle in 2015. It's still a question of density: can each town support this same array?
Just what this town needs. One more illustration of the lack of impact of the Village Center Alliance and its supporters on the BOT. It is interesting how oblivious these folks are to the increasing number of vacant stores and schlock stores in SO. I guess they are too busy running for useless titles to give a darn. Deborah Davis Ford and Mark Rosner are absolutely useless while Howard Levison at least makes an effort at times. Time for the write-ins to get moving
One of the main appeals of SO is its walkability. However, on those walks, I want to stop in to stores I have an interest in shopping at. Otherwise, I can just get in my car and drive to one of neighboring towns.
And I would add that since we are in such close proximity, I'm not sure there's enough business to support two very similar niche stores.
I understand that in many ways the two towns are one, and if something is in MW, it doesn't need to have a companion in SO. I just wish that some of these cool stores were in SO.
SouthernBaron said:
Yeah, you'll find that most people in SO and MW frequent businesses in each. The great conscious uncoupling of 1922 still left the two on largely friendly terms, and almost nobody frowns on a little cross-border raid. And Millburn is still pretty close. For better or worse, the short distance among all these just means that people here will think in a suburban fashion--but maybe in the best possible way. Driving to Millburn is a far cry from 20 miles down the Parkway. And downtown SO is still pretty walkable for everything that's here.
Words (the bookstore in MW) is probably all the area can handle in 2015. It's still a question of density: can each town support this same array?
We had a small bookstore in South Orange..It closed
We had an awesome bike store in South Orange. It closed
We HAVE a phenomenal grocery store in South Orange..We must endeavor to keep it from closing.
krnl said:
There's a great small bookstore in Maplewood, awesome bike shop in Millburn, and grocery store right on South Orange have in SO. You just need to explore the area more. Trader Joe's is around the corner in Millburn, as is Whole Paycheck.
SouthernBaron said:
It's still a question of density: can each town support this same array?
This ^
Welcome to the (semi)-suburbs. The fact that we have all of these a close drive away and some of them within walking distance is an excellent tradeoff (to most of us) that allows a lower level of density.
Really the only thing that I can see as obviously missing is a casual live music venue, but I guess some would argue that Hat City Kitchen over in Orange fills that niche. A place like this over at the old Family Buffet space, with a couple of pool tables and of course an elusive liquor license would do well, I'd think.
(Edited to add casual)
relx said:
I know about most of these already. But here's the thing--you have to drive to pretty much all of these. They are not in the town.
krnl said:
There's a great small bookstore in Maplewood, awesome bike shop in Millburn, and grocery store right on South Orange have in SO. You just need to explore the area more. Trader Joe's is around the corner in Millburn, as is Whole Paycheck.
These towns simply aren't big enough to support specialty businesses that would compete with similar stores just a few miles away. We all want charming, excellent stores, but we don't have the population that can keep them all in business.
Edited to add: The Baron beat me to it.
Then I guess the answer is the town can't support these kinds of businesses?
LL_ said:
We had a small bookstore in South Orange..It closed
We had an awesome bike store in South Orange. It closed
We HAVE a phenomenal grocery store in South Orange..We must endeavor to keep it from closing.
krnl said:
There's a great small bookstore in Maplewood, awesome bike shop in Millburn, and grocery store right on South Orange have in SO. You just need to explore the area more. Trader Joe's is around the corner in Millburn, as is Whole Paycheck.
Of course, that makes sense. I am probably still used to my Brooklyn mentality, which individual neighborhoods right next to each other can support similar businesses. But then, people in Brooklyn tend to drive as much. We had a car in Brooklyn, but generally just used it on weekends to get out of town.
dave23 said:
relx said:
I know about most of these already. But here's the thing--you have to drive to pretty much all of these. They are not in the town.
krnl said:
There's a great small bookstore in Maplewood, awesome bike shop in Millburn, and grocery store right on South Orange have in SO. You just need to explore the area more. Trader Joe's is around the corner in Millburn, as is Whole Paycheck.
These towns simply aren't big enough to support specialty businesses that would compete with similar stores just a few miles away. We all want charming, excellent stores, but we don't have the population that can keep them all in business.
Edited to add: The Baron beat me to it.
relx said:
Then I guess the answer is the town can't support these kinds of businesses?
No, the answer is that level of density of the entire region and the small geographic area of each town cannot support an identical business in each and every town.
This is why the Village (or other related organizations) sponsors different seasonal events throughout the year. Also there is the farmer's market. And there are other restaurants up Irvington Ave, but not everyone considers that as easily walkable depending on your starting point. And there are several parks. And on a nice day you can always walk to Maplewood. I think this is all absolutely great. But what do I know, I used to live in Piscataway...
I think the density comes into play when comparing South Orange to "Brooklyn" (I put that in quotes, because I arrived via Washington Heights, so I don't subscribe to Brooklyn being the center of the universe!) There are only so many dollars to be spent, and a lot of that you might want in SO already exists near enough. That said, I do somewhat agree that SO could use a little more 'boutique' businesses. I can't imagine with the competition for real estate that I had to deal with to move here that investors and entrepreneurs won't catch on to that eventually, but there aren't signs of much happening in the immediate future.
relx said:
Of course, that makes sense. I am probably still used to my Brooklyn mentality, which individual neighborhoods right next to each other can support similar businesses. But then, people in Brooklyn tend to drive as much. We had a car in Brooklyn, but generally just used it on weekends to get out of town.
dave23 said:
relx said:
I know about most of these already. But here's the thing--you have to drive to pretty much all of these. They are not in the town.
krnl said:
There's a great small bookstore in Maplewood, awesome bike shop in Millburn, and grocery store right on South Orange have in SO. You just need to explore the area more. Trader Joe's is around the corner in Millburn, as is Whole Paycheck.
These towns simply aren't big enough to support specialty businesses that would compete with similar stores just a few miles away. We all want charming, excellent stores, but we don't have the population that can keep them all in business.
Edited to add: The Baron beat me to it.
lhmirman said:
@relax - I agree with you 100%. My family and I just moved here from NYC and I want to be able to walk into South Orange and grab a cup a non Starbucks coffee and walk through town and shop. I went into the toy store on Sunday and loved it and I will venture to Kitchen a la mode next. But whats after that? I love Ashley's marketplace and go there twice a week for my produce. I am trying to embrace and support South Orange but it does need a bit of a pick me up. Just like we will to go MIllburn and Montclair and West Orange for good restaurants etc, those towns should want to come to South Orannge for our restaurants. Think about all the families that go to the Turtle Back Zoo. I mean there are in area already. So why not a good family style restaurant? How many hair and nail places does one street need? Again, I'm a month new to the area and on the weekends and my days off you will see me strolling my kids everywhere - I just wish there was more to do/stop during my strolls.
Get a waffle at Gridiron!
relx said:
Of course, that makes sense. I am probably still used to my Brooklyn mentality, which individual neighborhoods right next to each other can support similar businesses. But then, people in Brooklyn tend to drive as much. We had a car in Brooklyn, but generally just used it on weekends to get out of town.
That's a function of density. But I do agree that SO could probably support a few more specialty businesses. But I say that having never owned one.
Relx, I hear you. When I moved here nine years ago, I had the same thought you did, that our downtown was a jewel in the rough and that it had not reached its potential yet. I decided to do something big about it, make a career shift, make a sizable investment in our community and open up Kitchen a la Mode, an example of the kind of stores I wanted to see more of in South Orange.
That was seven years ago. We had a ton of momentum in 2008 and had a bunch of new store openings (Sparkhouse, Ashley Market, Village Trattoria, South Orange Pharmacy, Kitchen a la Mode, Grid Iron, etc.) that were perfect for South Orange. Alas, the bottom fell out of the economy and while we've been able to maintain most of those businesses, we were not able to get to that next step, which seemed inevitable when the economy was good. The last couple years have brought some great new places, like Ricaltons, Fallafelly Yours, Pandang, Titos, the sneaker shop and others and I'm hoping we're beginning to get our momentum back.
But retail is hard. In my store, I strive to hit a variety of price points and offer unique essentials and items you won't see anywhere else. My goal is to provide good value. I also look high and low for interesting vendors, small business and indepdent vendors and made in the U.S. vendors that I can support. My store isn't perfect, but I think it hits the vibe you're looking for and I'd like to see more of its kind. Unfortunately, business is only ok. I tend to joke that I run the most successful small business in South Orange 
So, if we want a better downtown, what can we do? First, vote with your feet, do your best to shop at the stores you like and ask everyone you know to do the same. Small business owners want to make money and if they know other store owners who are making good money in stores similar in vibe to theirs, they will follow. I promise you that. Also, whenever you're in a store you like elsewhere in NJ or in NYC, tell the, about South Orange! Spread the word! The owners of a hair salon in SOHO moved to South Orange as residents, fell in love and are opening a location here. We just have to spread the word!
Ultimately, I believe in South Orange. Do we have the best downtown ever? No, not yet, but that doesn't mean we can't. I serve on the Village Center Alliance and there's a ton of really hard working folks doing their darnedest to improve our Village Center. From events that draw people downtown to an aggressive business recruitment initiative, it's being worked on.
There are also some interesting things happening, which could help... I serve on a task force that is updating our commercial codes to make them relevant to the times and more business friendly. These codes haven't been updated in thirty years! Just think about how retail has changed since then! Also, we're beginning to get some more density downtown, which will bring additional customers and a bit of a transient population to South Orange, folks that are sold on our walkability and more interested in shopping downtown than at the mall or on a major highway.
I apologize for going on so long! As you can imagine, I could keep going! But everyone agrees that we need more retail and high quality shops. It's probably going to take some time, but I really hope we get them and I believe we're on the path to do so.
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