Tom_Reingold said:

finnegan said:

Tom_Reingold said:
We still don't have a lot of insight into why priests do this more than other people, and it seems to be the case. For all I know, it could be because the power structure is so vast.

Tom have you seen any research that shows that priests are more likely to sexually abuse children than any other profession?  The only data I can find just state that sexual abusers are much more likely to be male, but I'm interested to know if you've seen more detailed findings. 

 No, I haven't studied this. The #MeToo movement has shown us that abuse of women is widespread among many industries. It's possible we will learn that abuse of children is spread wider than clergy. But we haven't. So far as we know, it's priests doing this. If you have evidence of something else, let us know. If you don't, let us accept that priests are the problem.

      Tom - In response to one of your prior posts in this thread, I referenced the 2003 study by Charol Shakeshaft on behalf of the Dept of Education.  I recognize it's dated but it still is among the most cited because of it's methodology and the absence of anything more substantive on the subject.  Furthermore, Shakeshaft has done follow-up research on the topic.  In such a 2013 study, Shakeshaft found that "nearly 7%, or about 3.5 million students, report having physical sexual contact from an adult, most commonly a teacher or coach, in their school. These students describe unwanted touching on breasts, buttocks, and genitals; forced kissing and hugging; oral/genital contact; and vaginal and anal intercourse. Reports of educator misconduct that doesn’t include touching a student, but rather sharing pornography, sexual talk, sexual exhibitionism, or masturbation raised the proportion to about 10%, or nearly 4.5 million students" 

The 2003 Study:  https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.doc   
The 2013 Project: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/nyps/2013/pdf/Shakeshaft-Kappan20138.full.pdf 

     I also cited an article describing how district administrators and teacher unions endeavor to allow dismissed teachers to find work in other states and districts.  
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/12/22/teachers-who-sexually-abuse-students-still-find-classroom-jobs/95346790/

     I don't mean to criticize you because you have always seemed to be a very balanced/objective poster. Because of that, I don't quite understand your insistence that "priests are the problem"...which seems to imply they are the singular and/or most prolific abusers?  Indeed, some priests are child abusers and, thus, certainly those priests and the cover-up by the Catholic Church are part of the problem of child abuse. However, it has been determined that child abuse is "spread wider than clergy" . In fact, there about 3 million cases of child abuse each year in the US and mere logic would suggest that no profession is absent abusers.   And, in fact, the most prevalent incidents of child sexual abuse are by family members in the home.

     Once again, I am not Catholic and certainly do not wish to defend priests or the church.  Nor do I mean to suggest that most educators are abusers.  But, I don't believe it's objective to imply priests are "the" problem when the rate of children reporting abuse by educators is so pronounced. 

     You may very well have a good reason for your position so I apologize if I misunderstood your post.

Tom_Reingold said:

finnegan said:

Tom_Reingold said:
We still don't have a lot of insight into why priests do this more than other people, and it seems to be the case. For all I know, it could be because the power structure is so vast.

Tom have you seen any research that shows that priests are more likely to sexually abuse children than any other profession?  The only data I can find just state that sexual abusers are much more likely to be male, but I'm interested to know if you've seen more detailed findings. 

 No, I haven't studied this. The #MeToo movement has shown us that abuse of women is widespread among many industries. It's possible we will learn that abuse of children is spread wider than clergy. But we haven't. So far as we know, it's priests doing this. If you have evidence of something else, let us know. If you don't, let us accept that priests are the problem.

 Its not simply this industry vs. that industry.  Pedophiles or other socially unacceptable types will be drawn to settings that provide them cover and opportunity. Of course there are more pedophiles among teachers, camp counselors and coaches than there are among welders.  But the priesthood adds a strange twist to it.  Not only are priests given trust and authority over children but they operate with a pose of asexuality, or non-sexuality, that makes it easier to hide. . 

Tom_Reingold said:

 It's possible we will learn that abuse of children is spread wider than clergy. But we haven't. So far as we know, it's priests doing this. If you have evidence of something else, let us know. If you don't, let us accept that priests are the problem.

I'll defer to Norman Bates provision of the "evidence" you requested above. 

It's abundantly clear that the sexual abuse of children is "spread wider than clergy."  Does the name Larry Nassar ring a bell?   

Thank you all for reminding me about teachers and coaches who also abuse children. It is not clergy. 

Tom_Reingold said:
Thank you all for reminding me about teachers and coaches who also abuse children. It is not clergy. 

Tom - And I thank you for your response and understanding.  Child abuse is a horrific act, regardless of who the perpetrator may be. Frankly, there may be a need for stricter laws that address the act of "covering up" abuse.  In my opinion, at the minimum, any licensed educator, healthcare professional, clergy, or other credentialed person who acts to protect an abuser should also be held accountable. 

[Also, I should clarify a number in my prior post.  One advocacy group stated that there are about 3 million cases of suspected child abuse of all types (including neglect) in the US annually and I noted that. However, that is overly broad.  I believe the accepted number of cases of child sexual abuse is about 60,000 per year.  My apologies for not being clear]

I agree that abuse protectors need to be held accountable, though I'm not sure how much difference it will make. We need to get it out that it is just unacceptable and unthinkable. I was recently accused of being a pedophile, and it was extremely upsetting, because I feel strongly about how wrong such abuse is. It came from someone who I thought was a friend but was some kind of crazy. And yet I think we sometimes take excess precautions. I don't like being distrusted by default.

Adding fuel to the fire.  Of course, the order won't slow down U.S. prosecutors.

Vatican orders US bishops to delay taking action on sexual abuse crisis

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/12/us/conference-of-catholic-bishops-vatican/index.html

When I was a child living in Chile, 96% of the population was Catholic I recall writing for a school report.  Then years ago it was 73% and a recent survey reported 45%.  In a radio news program I heard that 17% of Chileans support the Catholic church.  I remember thinking when I began becoming aware of what had happened in the church in Chile while I was gone that I didn't know how the Catholic church would ever overcome the scandals. It is no longer an important element of society; and even decades long rituals where the President of Chile and the cabinet went to church to celebrate mass, I forget what the celebration is called, the President said he would not go unless they took the prelate in charge of the church in Santiago out of the ceremony.  Sebastian Piñera is a practicing Catholic.  Someone else celebrated the mass, and Piñera attended, but the negotiations were in the news for about two weeks while they reached a compromise.  I don't believe that the Catholic church can recuperate from these revelations.  I think of it as a skeleton being looked after by archeologists.