24 Hours since New Hampshire ---Bernie Raises --- wait for it ----
have to disagree with you GL2. I'm voting for democratic goals and yes we can, not no we can't so dont even bother.
I think polling shows that Sanders leads all republican opponents by a greater margin than Clinton.
I'm not going to fret over whether he can get any of the goals accomplished, I dont think its possible with a republican congress, but I do know that his executive actions will be more aligned with liberal thinking than Clinton's who I believe is entrenched in Clintonian policies that are hawkish and generally more aligned with republican philosophy.
I hold no hope that if she is elected president that any liberal policy will be proposed.
Anyway, Sanders isn't stupid and has possibly observed Republican hostility to the Clintons and Obamas. So, campaign for the stars and accomplish what you can when you win.
Interesting article about Clinton's new strategy: positioning Sanders as a single-issue candidate.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-finally-knows-what-she-wants-say-about-bernie-sanders?cid=sm_fb_maddow
This sounds pretty inspirational to me:
“I want to reiterate: We’ve got to stand up for unions and working people who have done it before, the American middle class, and who are being attacked by ideologues, by demagogues. Yes, does Wall Street and big financial interests, along with drug companies, insurance companies, big oil, all of it, have too much influence? You’re right.
But if we were to stop that tomorrow, we would still have the indifference, the negligence that we saw in Flint. We would still have racism holding people back. We would still have sexism preventing women from getting equal pay. We would still have LGBT people who get married on Saturday and get fired on Monday. And we would still have governors like Scott Walker and others trying to rip out the heart of the middle class by making it impossible to organize and stand up for better wages and working conditions. So I’m going to keep talking about tearing down all the barriers that stand in the way of Americans fulfilling their potential, because I don’t think our country can live up to its potential unless we give a chance to every single American to live up to theirs.”
What if Sanders picks Larry David as VP? Can we all agree that's a winning ticket?
paulsurovell said:
When Gloria Steinem campaigned for Bernie Sanders and called him "an honorary woman."
That looked like a good place to go to meet women.
tjohn said:
I get that, but a candidate needs something resembling an inspirational message. Assuming the Republican candidate will be too horrifying to vote for is not a winning strategy.
Inspirational is one thing. Unrealistic is quite another. That said, I'm a lifelong democrat, retired in the most democratic state in the U.S, and will definitely support the democratic candidate. So Bernie's safe with me.
Any GOP candidate will be a disaster for dem/socialist goals. And again, Roberts and Alito are young; Scalia will be carried out of the Court in a body bag; Thomas is grossly incompetent and reactionary. Kennedy's a crapshoot on any vote. Breyer and Ginsberg are relatively old. Court appointment is forever.
TarheelsInNj said:
Interesting article about Clinton's new strategy: positioning Sanders as a single-issue candidate.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-finally-knows-what-she-wants-say-about-bernie-sanders?cid=sm_fb_maddow
This sounds pretty inspirational to me:
“I want to reiterate: We’ve got to stand up for unions and working people who have done it before, the American middle class, and who are being attacked by ideologues, by demagogues. Yes, does Wall Street and big financial interests, along with drug companies, insurance companies, big oil, all of it, have too much influence? You’re right.
But if we were to stop that tomorrow, we would still have the indifference, the negligence that we saw in Flint. We would still have racism holding people back. We would still have sexism preventing women from getting equal pay. We would still have LGBT people who get married on Saturday and get fired on Monday. And we would still have governors like Scott Walker and others trying to rip out the heart of the middle class by making it impossible to organize and stand up for better wages and working conditions. So I’m going to keep talking about tearing down all the barriers that stand in the way of Americans fulfilling their potential, because I don’t think our country can live up to its potential unless we give a chance to every single American to live up to theirs.”
One of the criticisms of HRC is that she is constantly changing her message, and that, as a result, it gets muddled. While what you quote from her is fine, Sanders says the same thing more directly, and caters to a more emotional part of the brain and heart. For example:
"Let us wage a moral and political war against the billionaires and corporate leaders, on Wall Street and
elsewhere, whose policies and greed are destroying the middle class of America."
This creates an us against them mentality which we can very effective--sports teams use it all the time, saying the world is against them, nobody believed in them, etc. Hillary's is more of a checklist.
I always thought that a winning strategy for HRC would be to co-opt Sander's message, but say that because of her experience, she is the one who can bring about real change. She could say that she totally agrees with Senator Sanders that one day we should have single payer, that she has worked for health insurance for all since she was First Lady, and with her experience in government, one day we will reach that goal. That would be an effective message in that makes her the candidate of change and experience, which she has been trying to be since 2008.
And I do not understand how any Republican beats any Democrat in 2016.
They have alienated Blacks. They have alienated Hispanics. They have alienated women. The young are not with them.
And yesterday Trump attacked the Pope!
The Pope!!!!
And BTW, how was a first-term mixed race Senator with a Muslim-sounding name more "electable" than Hillary Clinton in 2008?
GL2 said:
I'm not looking for inspiration. I'm looking for responsible goals.
^This!
relx said:
I always thought that a winning strategy for HRC would be to co-opt Sander's message, but say that because of her experience, she is the one who can bring about real change. She could say that she totally agrees with Senator Sanders that one day we should have single payer, that she has worked for health insurance for all since she was First Lady, and with her experience in government, one day we will reach that goal. That would be an effective message in that makes her the candidate of change and experience, which she has been trying to be since 2008.
Very good! You ought to be a political consultant.
Given that NEITHER Clinton nor Sanders would get a damn thing through the GOP Congress, I don't think Clinton's incrementalism is much of a selling point. It's hardly inspiring to tell voters that neither candidate will get anything through Congress, so we should vote for the person trying to do less.
ml1 said:
Given that NEITHER Clinton nor Sanders would get a damn thing through the GOP Congress, I don't think Clinton's incrementalism is much of a selling point. It's hardly inspiring to tell voters that neither candidate will get anything through Congress, so we should vote for the person trying to do less.
One of the leading candidates on the Republican side is Ted Cruz. He doesn't even seem to believe in getting things through Congress.
relx said:
TarheelsInNj said:
Interesting article about Clinton's new strategy: positioning Sanders as a single-issue candidate.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-finally-knows-what-she-wants-say-about-bernie-sanders?cid=sm_fb_maddow
This sounds pretty inspirational to me:
“I want to reiterate: We’ve got to stand up for unions and working people who have done it before, the American middle class, and who are being attacked by ideologues, by demagogues. Yes, does Wall Street and big financial interests, along with drug companies, insurance companies, big oil, all of it, have too much influence? You’re right.
But if we were to stop that tomorrow, we would still have the indifference, the negligence that we saw in Flint. We would still have racism holding people back. We would still have sexism preventing women from getting equal pay. We would still have LGBT people who get married on Saturday and get fired on Monday. And we would still have governors like Scott Walker and others trying to rip out the heart of the middle class by making it impossible to organize and stand up for better wages and working conditions. So I’m going to keep talking about tearing down all the barriers that stand in the way of Americans fulfilling their potential, because I don’t think our country can live up to its potential unless we give a chance to every single American to live up to theirs.”
One of the criticisms of HRC is that she is constantly changing her message, and that, as a result, it gets muddled. While what you quote from her is fine, Sanders says the same thing more directly, and caters to a more emotional part of the brain and heart. For example:
"Let us wage a moral and political war against the billionaires and corporate leaders, on Wall Street and
elsewhere, whose policies and greed are destroying the middle class of America."
This creates an us against them mentality which we can very effective--sports teams use it all the time, saying the world is against them, nobody believed in them, etc. Hillary's is more of a checklist.
I always thought that a winning strategy for HRC would be to co-opt Sander's message, but say that because of her experience, she is the one who can bring about real change. She could say that she totally agrees with Senator Sanders that one day we should have single payer, that she has worked for health insurance for all since she was First Lady, and with her experience in government, one day we will reach that goal. That would be an effective message in that makes her the candidate of change and experience, which she has been trying to be since 2008.
That quote is actually exactly the point of the article and the quote - HRC's strategy is now to say he's focused too much on the billionaires and corporate leaders and doesn't have a broad enough scope. We'll see if it lands.
LOST said:
ml1 said:
Given that NEITHER Clinton nor Sanders would get a damn thing through the GOP Congress, I don't think Clinton's incrementalism is much of a selling point. It's hardly inspiring to tell voters that neither candidate will get anything through Congress, so we should vote for the person trying to do less.
One of the leading candidates on the Republican side is Ted Cruz. He doesn't even seem to believe in getting things through Congress.
After hearing the appeals from supporters of Hillary Clinton, I have a suggestion for a campaign slogan:
Hillary '16: Don't get your hopes up.
May not be a winner, but hey, it's realistic.
Praise for Sanders' foreign policy from an expert:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619
ml1 said:
Given that NEITHER Clinton nor Sanders would get a damn thing through the GOP Congress, ....
WRONG !!! If the Republicans in Congress block Hillary's attempts to thwart the will of the American people, she will tell them to "Cut it out."
That'l fix 'em.
Months ago I pointed out that Bernie needed to respond forcefully to talking head gasbags calling him a 'Socialist'. I was told he was doing well without doing so. Later on he began to respond by pointing out the difference between being a Democratic Socialist and a Socialist. it was not enough.
Yesterday, Trump went a step further, calling Bernie a Communist!!! at least twice, and to loud applause from the audience. Will Bernie finally 'go negative' and politely say the blustering bullsh*tter is FOS.
I wonder if Trump is gaining additional support these days. Among his core supporters, he can do no wrong. But if he expects to win, he has to gain additional support. And I am not sure his comments about Sanders impress anybody but his core supporters.
I'm not sure how Sanders should react. He's not going to get any Trump supporters to go over to him in the Primaries and Bernie's supporters will just be emboldend by attacks from Trump.
OTOH maybe it's time for someone to call out Trump as a Fascist.
On the third hand Bernie can wait until Trump starts attacking him with Anti-Semitic slurs.
ctrzaska said:
Is it too late for Biden/Warren?
So you support Sen. Warren? What are your objections to Sanders?
I get that, but a candidate needs something resembling an inspirational message. Assuming the Republican candidate will be too horrifying to vote for is not a winning strategy.