DUMP TRUMP (previously 2020 candidates)

nohero said:

sbenois said:

paulsurovell said:

sbenois said:

nohero said:

sbenois said:

Idiotic video.   Even the folks at the Epoch Times are laughing at it.

 It's just a waste of time.  Still going after John Delaney like that is a useful as still going after Tulsi Gabbard the Warmonger.

 Fixed that for you.

 Big Nasty makes Little Nasty's post nastier.  

Thank you for your insult.   

I don't know why you get top billing ... 

 And he forgot me altogether!

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

The "concepts" of Bernie's plan call for all electricity to be generated by renewable sources by 2050 and for the transmission of that electricity to be handled by a smart grid.

How does this conflict with "how the business of electricity and transmission is conducted"?

FYI, here's more detail about the viability of these "concepts": http://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/USStatesWWS.pdf

Paul has described the goals. Implementation requires the recognition of what the infrastructure is now, and how to transition. As with Bernie's version of M4A, that transition part isn't adequately addressed.

@nohero states the obvious, but what he doesn't say is whether he supports the goals of ending fossil fuel generation of electricity and converting to 100% clean energy by 2050.   

I don't dispute the benefits, but there has to be more than "Wouldn't it be great if ..." without setting out a genuine plan, recognizing the current starting point.

nan said:

nohero said:

 I didn't read the article and I didn't watch the video.  I doubt that the only thing Biff did was "read from the article".

OK, so you admit that you pretend you have reviewed the material you are commenting on. Noted.   

 What did I miss from Biff that I didn't get from his "Are You Scared Bernie?" title for his Delaney video?

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

The Stanford.edu piece is a mostly about the benefits projected from the expenditures to transition to renewables only by 2050. There is a vague wave of the hand to undefined "State planning and incentive structures" towards the end, right before the summary, as the only nod to that transition.

The Stanford piece estimates the numbers of clean energy generators [ Wind, Water (wave, hydroelectric), Solar and Geothermal ] needed to replace fossil fuel generation and the resources needed to produce those clean generators. In short, the technological / resource viability of transitionng to a 100% clean energy economy. There is a list of initial steps presented, including a ban on new oil, gas, coal or nuclear power plants after 2020, as well as numerous incentives for the public and local governments.

It's not as specific about that as you describe.  Also, my thoughts in my response go together, so commenting on a partial thought of mine leaves off my discussion of what's missing. 

I would be happy to watch a Delaney and Bonnie video.

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

For instance: "Lock in in-state fossil fuel and nuclear power plants to retire under enforceable commitments. At the same time, streamline the permit approval process for WWS power generators and high capacity transmission lines." There's no recognition of the cost or the logistics of such a transition (for example, you don't just "turn off" a nuclear plant and then sell it for scrap, as if it was like a factory).

OK, no discussion of the costs or logistics of streamlining WWS (Wind, Water, Solar) power generators, but surely @nohero agrees that this is a necessary goal. And where does @nohero see anything about "turning off" nuclear plants and "selling them for scrap"?

Again, I don't quarrel with the benefit, but "no discussion of the costs or logistics" (as you admit) means that there isn't an actual plan to agree with.

The plan is to stop generating and using electricity from nuclear plants.  Hence my comment.  

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

Also: "Work with local and regional governments to manage zoning and permitting issues within existing regional planning efforts or pre-approve sites to reduce the cost and uncertainty of projects and expedite their physical build-out." Again, really vague about a significant cost and logistical component of the transition.

Again, does @nohero see this as a necessary step toward ending the burning of fossil fuels?

 Yes, it is, because a genuine plan has to deal with the costs and "how it's done" of that.

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

By the way, according to the report we'll ALL be on electric heat by 2050, details to follow.

Heat pump technology already makes this a viable proposal, and tax credits and subsidies can make it financially beneficial.

 That's a huge "details to follow", given that it's essential to the plan (look at the implementation chart again).

nohero said:

 What did I miss from Biff that I didn't get from his "Are You Scared Bernie?" title for his Delaney video?

 You will have to read the article or watch the video.  I'm not doing your work for you.

I'm pretty sure that you will need to pay him to do such work.   Otherwise, it's not worth it.

nohero said:

I don't know why you get top billing ... 

 he's taller 

A few days ago nan and DaveSchmidt were discussing the relative absence of Biden supporters online. This passing observation at 538 caught my eye:

Former Vice President Joe Biden leads the Democratic primary field, largely because of support from voters who are black, over the age of 50, more moderate and/or without college degrees.

It occurs to me that, apart from the "over the age of 50," these other groups called out as Biden backers aren't well represented on MOL (and given the country's overall social segregation, likely not well represented in other other places MOLers hang out when they're not here). Thought it was a good reminder that the wider world of the Democratic Party (not to mention the wider world in general) can look different than our immediate, smaller one.

nan said:

Joe on his healthcare plan: “We’ll make sure it’s not quality, we’ll make sure it’s only affordable.”

https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1165003819413135360

The Biden Gaff-o-Meter (08/24/2019 edition)

• Can't remember the name of his own website
• Said the last two major mass shootings were in different locations.
• Keeps calling Teresa May, Margaret Thatcher
• "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids"
• "We choose truth over facts!"
• "those kids in Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president."
• undocumented immigrants need to "get in line" and we are right to "cherry-pick" the best
• "There's an awful lot of really good Republicans out there."
• "When Bobby Kennedy and Dr. King were assassinated, in the 70s—in the late 70s.”
• "My longfriend timefriend who's a friend and has been a friend in and out of public life."
• “We’ll make sure it’s not quality, we’ll make sure it’s only affordable.”

Joe Biden in Keene, New Hampshire: "I’ve been here a number of times...I love this place. Look, what’s not to like about Vermont in terms of the beauty of it?”

https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1165372396607553536

The Biden Gaff-o-Meter (08/24/2019 BONUS edition)

• Can't remember the name of his own website
• Said the last two major mass shootings were in different locations.
• Keeps calling Teresa May, Margaret Thatcher
• "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids"
• "We choose truth over facts!"
• "those kids in Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president."
• undocumented immigrants need to "get in line" and we are right to "cherry-pick" the best
• "There's an awful lot of really good Republicans out there."
• "When Bobby Kennedy and Dr. King were assassinated, in the 70s—in the late 70s.”
• "My longfriend timefriend who's a friend and has been a friend in and out of public life."
• “We’ll make sure it’s not quality, we’ll make sure it’s only affordable.”
• (in New Hampshire) ". . .Look, what's not to like about Vermont in terms of the beauty of it?"

STANV said:

 I do not know if anyone would lose interest in Warren if Bernie dropped significantly in the polls. I doubt it but in any event it would be stupid. So far Warren has risen constantly. She persists and it seems to pay off.

As to "personality negatives" who doesn't have those other than someone totally scripted and totally phony.

Nevertheless I would like to know what those supposed "personality negatives" are and whether they would be perceived as negative in a Male candidate. 

I think working-class people, and people with working-class backgrounds sometimes find her repellant.  Not sure if it's related to gender but that's how it is always going to be presented by Warren supporters, who are strongly affluent whites.  Here is a good analysis of why Warren has become the darling of the white elites, as we have seen on MOL as well. However, she will have to branch out to other groups if she wants to win.

sbenois said:

paulsurovell said:

sbenois said:

nohero said:

sbenois said:

Idiotic video.   Even the folks at the Epoch Times are laughing at it.

 It's just a waste of time.  Still going after John Delaney like that is a useful as still going after Tulsi Gabbard the Warmonger.

 Fixed that for you.

 Big Nasty makes Little Nasty's post nastier. 

 

Thank you for your insult.   

 LOL, Big Nasty playing victim.

Victim playing (also known as playing the victim, victim card, or self-victimization) is the fabrication of victimhood for a variety of reasons such as to justify abuse of others, to manipulate others, a coping strategy, or attention seeking

For Big Nasty, it's all four, especially the first.

Thank you for your analysis.

Another article on Biden's inability to tell the difference between Vermont and New Hampshire.

Boston Globe: Joe Biden says he enjoys his visits to Keene, ‘Vermont’

Too old, too conservative and just too damn stupid.

I mean, its not like he was talking about Iowa or New Hampshire, the two most important states to any Presidential candidate.  

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

By the way, according to the report we'll ALL be on electric heat by 2050, details to follow.

Heat pump technology already makes this a viable proposal, and tax credits and subsidies can make it financially beneficial.

 That's a huge "details to follow", given that it's essential to the plan (look at the implementation chart again).

 By definition any plan that calls for major societal changes is going to have "huge details to follow".

Zzzzzzzzzz. Biden is an idiot. Zzzzzzzz. Bernie will save the world. Zzzzzzzzzz.

This threat is more predictable than watching grass grow

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

By the way, according to the report we'll ALL be on electric heat by 2050, details to follow.

Heat pump technology already makes this a viable proposal, and tax credits and subsidies can make it financially beneficial.

 That's a huge "details to follow", given that it's essential to the plan (look at the implementation chart again).

 By definition any plan that calls for major societal changes is going to have "huge details to follow".

Paul, your post has more details than the report about that.

To have a wholesale change of heating systems in every home, that requires significant incentives, unless such change is actually compelled by law.  I don't think that plan even considers the enormous difficulties or expense with respect to that.

paulsurovell said:

sbenois said:

paulsurovell said:

Big Nasty makes Little Nasty's post nastier.  

Thank you for your insult.   

 LOL, Big Nasty playing victim.

Victim playing (also known as playing the victim, victim card, or self-victimization) is the fabrication of victimhood for a variety of reasons such as to justify abuse of others, to manipulate others, a coping strategy, or attention seeking

For Big Nasty, it's all four, especially the first.

That's definitely some serious projection, there. 

PVW said:

It occurs to me that, apart from the "over the age of 50," these other groups called out as Biden backers aren't well represented on MOL (and given the country's overall social segregation, likely not well represented in other other places MOLers hang out when they're not here). Thought it was a good reminder that the wider world of the Democratic Party (not to mention the wider world in general) can look different than our immediate, smaller one.

I can't speak for other folks here, but I've been well aware that the groups cited above hold a lot of sway in the Democratic primaries, especially some of the important early voting states. And that's my concern for the general election, just as it was in '16. The primary voters are going to come out in the general because they are among the most committed voters. 

But last time, and I'm concerned that again this time they are going to nominate someone who doesn't bring out the lighter and less connected Democratic leaning voters. We'll see, but candidates who just promise to go back to the status quo of 2015 might not generate enough overall enthusiasm in the electorate to be able to beat Trump. Whatever we want to say about his supporters, they are fired up. 

nan said:

I think working-class people, and people with working-class backgrounds sometimes find her repellant.  Not sure if it's related to gender but that's how it is always going to be presented by Warren supporters, who are strongly affluent whites.  Here is a good analysis of why Warren has become the darling of the white elites, as we have seen on MOL as well. However, she will have to branch out to other groups if she wants to win.

 I will watch the video later but in the meantime why would working class voters or those with "working class people and people with working class back rounds"  find someone with the same back round repellent.

Is it some sort of self-hatred. Do they find others with those back rounds, like Biden or Bernie, repellent? Why do so many of them support Trump who was :born with a silver spoon in his mouth"? 

I who come from a similar back round see Warren as a champion of the working class.

So now I've watched the video. It was much shorter than the ones that are usually linked.

I wonder what % of upper-middle class "White Liberals" who support Liz had parents who were upper middle class and what % had parents who were working class. The video says she is popular with those whose annual income is above $100k. But who do those with much higher income, Let's say above $300k support?  

Is it income and education which separate Bernie supporters from Liz supporters or s i generational? What part does gender play. I haven't taken a poll but I have attended a Warren campaign event. All but one person were white and appeared to be educated and middle class, but not rich. One former Bernie supporter, a Hispanic immigrant, said that he thought Bernie supporters were becoming like a cult, but more importantly he wanted to see a woman President and favored a Warren-Gabbard ticket. Another man said he wanted a Warren-Sanders or Sanders-Warren ticket. Another said the only Presidential candidate he actively campaigned for previously was Jerry Brown. And a woman whose first political experience was leafleting for Adlai Stevenson at age 9  just had a visceral dislike of Bernie.

Not very scientific but I doubt anyone will do a poll to answer my questions about the actual family backgrounds of voters.

basil said:

Zzzzzzzzzz. Biden is an idiot. Zzzzzzzz. Bernie will save the world. Zzzzzzzzzz.

This threat is more predictable than watching grass grow

 And yet so easily avoidable. 

That said, you are aware that I do not support Bernie who, while liberal and intelligent, is too old to be President?

Klinker said:

basil said:

Zzzzzzzzzz. Biden is an idiot. Zzzzzzzz. Bernie will save the world. Zzzzzzzzzz.

This threat is more predictable than watching grass grow

 And yet so easily avoidable. 

That said, you are aware that I do not support Bernie who, while liberal and intelligent, is too old to be President?

The world doesn't end when a president dies. The U.S. will still be there, Trump's judiciary will continue, etc. Did Walmart and Sam's club fail when Sam Walton died?

Bernie's VP selection is more important than his age.

A President doesn't have to die for their age to become a determining factor.

nan said:

Joe Biden in Keene, New Hampshire: "I’ve been here a number of times...I love this place. Look, what’s not to like about Vermont in terms of the beauty of it?”

https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1165372396607553536

The Biden Gaff-o-Meter (08/24/2019 BONUS edition)

• Can't remember the name of his own website
• Said the last two major mass shootings were in different locations.
• Keeps calling Teresa May, Margaret Thatcher
• "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids"
• "We choose truth over facts!"
• "those kids in Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president."
• undocumented immigrants need to "get in line" and we are right to "cherry-pick" the best
• "There's an awful lot of really good Republicans out there."
• "When Bobby Kennedy and Dr. King were assassinated, in the 70s—in the late 70s.”
• "My longfriend timefriend who's a friend and has been a friend in and out of public life."
• “We’ll make sure it’s not quality, we’ll make sure it’s only affordable.”
• (in New Hampshire) ". . .Look, what's not to like about Vermont in terms of the beauty of it?"

“40 killed at Kent State.”
“I’m the first year a Senate ever knew.”

https://twitter.com/nashville_brook/status/1165629134653009922

The Biden Gaff-o-Meter (08/25/2019 edition)

• Can't remember the name of his own website
• Said the last two major mass shootings were in different locations.
• Keeps calling Teresa May, Margaret Thatcher
• "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids"
• "We choose truth over facts!"
• "those kids in Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president."
• undocumented immigrants need to "get in line" and we are right to "cherry-pick" the best
• "There's an awful lot of really good Republicans out there."
• "When Bobby Kennedy and Dr. King were assassinated, in the 70s—in the late 70s.”
• "My longfriend timefriend who's a friend and has been a friend in and out of public life."
• “We’ll make sure it’s not quality, we’ll make sure it’s only affordable.”
• (in New Hampshire) ". . .Look, what's not to like about Vermont in terms of the beauty of it?"
• "40 killed at Kent State. I'm the first year a Senate ever knew."  

STANV said:

 I will watch the video later but in the meantime why would working class voters or those with "working class people and people with working class back rounds"  find someone with the same back round repellent.

Is it some sort of self-hatred. Do they find others with those back rounds, like Biden or Bernie, repellent? Why do so many of them support Trump who was :born with a silver spoon in his mouth"? 

I who come from a similar back round see Warren as a champion of the working class.

 They trust Bernie more.  He has a longer and stronger track record.  His proposals are more specifically for them and he will fight tooth and nail for Medicare for All.  I'm talking about people who are still in the working class, not people like you who are now middle class.