DUMP TRUMP (previously 2020 candidates)
conandrob240 said:
He’s the ONLY person right now who’d stand a chance at beating Trump.
It’s still very early but I’m starting to come around to believe this. All the currently declared candidates have their strengths but they’re also lame in their own ways, and nobody has broad appeal. I think Biden is Biden his time (pun intended) and will jump in at an suitable later date, and most likely immediately be the front runner.
The only other person who could match Biden in terms of broad appeal would be Michele Obama, but I don’t think she’s running.
Smedley said:
conandrob240 said:It’s still very early but I’m starting to come around to believe this. All the currently declared candidates have their strengths but they’re also lame in their own ways, and nobody has broad appeal. I think Biden is Biden his time (pun intended) and will jump in at an suitable later date, and most likely immediately be the front runner.
He’s the ONLY person right now who’d stand a chance at beating Trump.
The only other person who could match Biden in terms of broad appeal would be Michele Obama, but I don’t think she’s running.
I would strongly prefer candidates who are less likely to be pushing up daisies before their term ends.
Age is a big concern, no doubt. Easily the biggest knock on Biden. But unless someone else really catches on, Old Man Biden is the best option to beat Trump.
I’d take Biden and his liver spots over younger folks like Booker or Harris or Beto who would get mopped up in the purple states.
We have an old coot in the White House right now who manages to project a kind of cooty virility to 35% of America. Bernie’s got that too, but Bernie actually looks old. Surely Biden could do no worse. In fact my millennial thinks he’s adorable, and not someone who will be soon “pushing up daisies”.
Nobody can beat Biden on experience, although I said that about Hillary. What he has, that according to many on MOL Hillary didn't, is likability. Hate to bring the beer reference in but yeah, I'd have a beer with him.
As for age, sure I wish he were younger, but I'm pretty sure my younger favorite, Cory Booker, will not be the nominee.
And, not to get hung up on gender, I was hoping for a female president before I start "pushing up daisies."
So, putting my veganism aside along with my sexism, I'd vote for Biden.
I would actually like a President who actively plays tennis. Tennis is such a great and elegant sport. You can play it at any age. It doesn't have violence and brain injuries. Does anyone know where Biden stands on tennis? Or the other candidates?
Evidently, Trump also sees Biden as his major threat, but I really don't see how Biden could beat Trump or even win the nomination. I think his campaign would fizzle out quicker than just about anyone else's. He was a cheerleader for TPP. He supported student loan debt problems. He supports any and all regime changes. He's openly against Progressives. He has said things that seem to be against social security and Medicare. He's got MEtoo problems. And that's just what comes off the top of my head--I've read about more. He's as baggage-laden as Hillary Clinton (well maybe not quite that bad, but ballpark) which means bombshells could could out at any minute. AND he's an old white guy, qualities that I usually don't give much weight to when choosing a candidate--but that's on top of everything else. Why do people like him? He's gross.
Two years before the 2008 election, Obama wasn't on the radar as a serious threat. Maybe this is the year we have a national nervous breakdown from starting the 2020 campaign too early.
Guess what Nan. This centrist and millions of other centrists are not wild about Progressives and their adolescent, black and white idealism. Which is kind of sad considering I agree with a lot of what Progressives want.
tjohn said:
Two years before the 2008 election, Obama wasn't on the radar as a serious threat. Maybe this is the year we have a national nervous breakdown from starting the 2020 campaign too early.
Guess what Nan. This centrist and millions of other centrists are not wild about Progressives and their adolescent, black and white idealism. Which is kind of sad considering I agree with a lot of what Progressives want.
Don't be so sure tjohn. 70% of people want Medicare for All. 40% of Americans are only one missed paycheck away from poverty. Not so sure they are rooting for centrists. Also, the planet only has 12 years left unless we do something serious about climate change, so you really need to pick a candidate that is believable on that if you want a planet to live on.
Also--look even you like them!
nan said:
Don't be so sure tjohn. 70% of people want Medicare for All.
I don't want to lose my UHC PPO insurance I have through work.
Beyond that, societal issues really pale in comparison to climate change. It doesn't mean we ignore those issues, but we have to set priorities.
tjohn said:
nan said:I don't want to lose my UHC PPO insurance I have through work.
Don't be so sure tjohn. 70% of people want Medicare for All.
Beyond that, societal issues really pale in comparison to climate change. It doesn't mean we ignore those issues, but we have to set priorities.
Well, that's what happens now if you lose your job, which has happened to many. So, it's better to have a system not related to employment, which can be iffy for many.
nan said:
tjohn said:Well, that's what happens now if you lose your job, which has happened to many. So, it's better to have a system not related to employment, which can be iffy for many.
nan said:I don't want to lose my UHC PPO insurance I have through work.
Don't be so sure tjohn. 70% of people want Medicare for All.
Beyond that, societal issues really pale in comparison to climate change. It doesn't mean we ignore those issues, but we have to set priorities.
I'm sorry. I have a vote and I don't want to lose my UHC PPO insurance I have through work. If you tell people would good insurance that they will lose it, your progressive dream of single-payer insurance will go down in flames. Australia has, I believe, a hybrid system. Figure it out.
Please stop saying 70% of Americans want Medicaid for all. That is no longer true.
annielou said:
Please stop saying 70% of Americans want Medicaid for all. That is no longer true.
A huge amount of people want this and they should. I would not be surprised to see polls showing less than 70% since the insurance companies are working overtime to smear Medicare for All and the MSM will be against it and want to steer everyone to some centrist, status quo position. But, there is enough misery out there that support will remain high.
I really think we should have a candidate who is good at tennis, I don't want 4 more years of this, it's gross.
nan said:
Why do people like him?
I've never been a huge Biden fan, but I've liked him OK enough over the years. However at the moment I like him plenty because I think he represents the best chance to beat Trump in 2020.
Unless the economy sh-ts the bed sometime in the next 18 months, or unless Mueller's final report deposes Trump, the unfortunate reality is that Trump will be a formidable opponent in 2020. If you think some progressive candidate is going to convince voters in MI, WI, NC, PA, CO, NV, MN, FL, etc that a progressive agenda will be better for them than the status quo of 4% unemployment, you're kidding yourself.
Can Biden compete for those votes? Oh hell yeah.
Huge numbers of people may want Medicaid for all but that 70% is dropping fast when further details emerge. Stop repeating that number. It’s misleading. Rebrand these policies . Do something! Somehow Democrats have to feel the pulse of general election sentiments and not be outwitted by the snakes on the other side (per usual).
annielou said:
Huge numbers of people may want Medicaid for all but that 70% is dropping fast when further details emerge. Stop repeating that number. It’s misleading. Rebrand these policies . Do something! Somehow Democrats have to feel the pulse of general election sentiments and not be outwitted by the snakes on the other side (per usual).
I thought that Obamacare was a good start and if there was a political consensus to make it better, a lot could have been accomplished.
tjohn said:
nan said:I'm sorry. I have a vote and I don't want to lose my UHC PPO insurance I have through work. If you tell people would good insurance that they will lose it, your progressive dream of single-payer insurance will go down in flames. Australia has, I believe, a hybrid system. Figure it out.
tjohn said:Well, that's what happens now if you lose your job, which has happened to many. So, it's better to have a system not related to employment, which can be iffy for many.
nan said:I don't want to lose my UHC PPO insurance I have through work.
Don't be so sure tjohn. 70% of people want Medicare for All.
Beyond that, societal issues really pale in comparison to climate change. It doesn't mean we ignore those issues, but we have to set priorities.
Every social democracy with a "universal" health insurance system also allows for private insurance. Even the UK has private insurance companies.
Smedley said:
nan said:I've never been a huge Biden fan, but I've liked him OK enough over the years. However at the moment I like him plenty because I think he represents the best chance to beat Trump in 2020.
Why do people like him?
Unless the economy sh-ts the bed sometime in the next 18 months, or unless Mueller's final report deposes Trump, the unfortunate reality is that Trump will be a formidable opponent in 2020. If you think some progressive candidate is going to convince voters in MI, WI, NC, PA, CO, NV, MN, FL, etc that a progressive agenda will be better for them than the status quo of 4% unemployment, you're kidding yourself.
Can Biden compete for those votes? Oh hell yeah.
Most people are living at or near poverty. The Progressive attack on wage inequality will resonate. But, I'm still waiting to hear what exactly it is you like about Joe Biden. Why is a good candidate, specifically?
nan said:Most people are living at or near poverty.
This is absolutely not true. Please stop saying it.
annielou said:
Huge numbers of people may want Medicaid for all but that 70% is dropping fast when further details emerge. Stop repeating that number. It’s misleading. Rebrand these policies . Do something! Somehow Democrats have to feel the pulse of general election sentiments and not be outwitted by the snakes on the other side (per usual).
What exactly do mainstream Democrats like Kamala Harris offer to the American people to get them excited, in a way a Progressive will not? I went to Harris's webpage and I did not even see any platform listed there. Teeshirts and totebags, but no platform. Do you think a country of poor people are going to fall for speeches filled with hard luck pull them up by the boots strap stories and other platitudes? Hillary lost and so I'm wondering how Hillary 2.0 is going to do better.
On Election Day 2020 here are the ages: Biden 77,Sanders 79,Warren 71,Trump 75. The oldest president was Reagan at 73. According to Scopes Obama could run as vice-president with Biden as president. What about that?
jimmurphy said:
We are not a country of poor people.
Well, some people say 1/2 of all Americans are at or below poverty. Some make the case for a lower number, but many people are stressed about money and work more than one job. Many don't have any savings or emergency funds. I don't think a candidate who does not come up with specific plans for the working poor will not do well.
You sound like Trump - "some people say..."
Nowhere near half of all Americans are at or below poverty. This has been pointed out to you before.
The fact that you still seem to believe this explains your inability to understand that not everyone wants these pie-in-the-sky progressive policies you espouse.
nan said:
jimmurphy said:Well, some people say 1/2 of all Americans are at or below poverty. Some make the case for a lower number, but many people are stressed about money and work more than one job. Many don't have any savings or emergency funds. I don't think a candidate who does not come up with specific plans for the working poor will not do well.
We are not a country of poor people.
"some people say"?
That's what Trump says, all the time. He says it because the real data is against him. I imagine that's true for you too.
============
As for Biden - jeebus, people. The guy is a walking verbal disaster. If he decides to run, I bet he's out within a few months after saying some stupid thing after another. And since when do we reward someone with front runner status after they've already tried and failed twice to get the nomination? Are you always in the habit of rewarding failure like that?
nan said: Most people are living at or near poverty. The Progressive attack on wage inequality will resonate. But, I'm still waiting to hear what exactly it is you like about Joe Biden. Why is a good candidate, specifically?
Whether you love Trump or hate Trump, you can't deny the broad economic metrics, most notably low unemployment with low inflation, that show the U.S. economy is strong. Of course, one can always find numbers to support a counter-argument, and I agree that wage inequality is an issue. But while a paycheck is tangible, wage inequality really isn't. For swing-state voters sitting at their proverbial kitchen table, how their families are doing economically is much more important than the fact that the CEO of their company makes 100x more than them or whatever the appropriate wage inequality metric would be.
So in my view it flies in the face of logic to believe that a progressive agenda will fly in the current environment.
Biden attributes: was a solid VP for eight years in a successful administration; strong statesman; deep experience in government; good character and regular-guy life story; respected on both sides of the aisle.
And again: He. Can. Beat. Trump.
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